[QUOTE]Angered by Arizona's crackdown on illegal immigrants, Hispanic protesters took to the streets on Saturday to denounce the new law and call on President Barack Obama to act urgently on immigration reform at May Day rallies across the United States.
In a sea of American flags and banners painted with "We Are All Arizona" and "Overturn Arizona Apartheid," tens of thousands of marchers, dressed in white, swarmed downtown Los Angeles.
In Washington, a U.S. congressman was among 34 people arrested in a protest outside the White House.
Dozens of protests were planned by immigration rights activists in U.S. cities, including in the Arizona capital, Phoenix, where the governor signed the toughest immigration law in the nation eight days ago.
Activists want a repeal of the law that seeks to drive illegal immigrants out of the U.S.-Mexico border state and they want Obama to fulfill his election promise to overhaul immigration laws. An estimated 10.8 million illegal immigrants live in the United States.
"What is happening in Arizona is making the community come out to the street," said activist Omar Gomez in Los Angeles.
The Arizona law requires state and local police to determine people's immigration status if there is "reasonable suspicion" they are in the United States illegally.
Supporters say it is needed to curb crime in the desert state, which is home to some 460,000 illegal immigrants and is a major corridor for drug and migrant smugglers from Mexico.
Critics say the law is unconstitutional and opens the door to racial profiling.
Polls show it has the backing of almost two-thirds of Arizona voters and majority support nationwide. The law has prompted legal challenges and hurled immigration back on the front burner of U.S. politics in this volatile election year.[/QUOTE]
:doh:
[URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN0117693920100501"]Source[/URL]
show gov't issued ID = no problems
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21681291]show gov't issued ID = no problems[/QUOTE]
forced to show ID = unconstitutional
now if only people would protest and conjugate for other things like, oh I don't know, something more important, like our [i]economy[/i]
oh wait nevermind
you are right
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681313]forced to show ID = unconstitutional[/QUOTE]
you don't have to, and, if you are doing something illegal, that right is lost.
walking down street, minding own business = unconstitutional
breaking into car = constitutional
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681313]forced to show ID = unconstitutional[/QUOTE]
illegally immigrating = problems for us
[QUOTE=xxncxx;21681409]illegally immigrating = problems for us[/QUOTE]
Civil rights violations = bigger problem
[editline]07:46PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21681375]you don't have to, and, if you are doing something illegal, that right is lost.
walking down street, minding own business = unconstitutional
breaking into car = constitutional[/QUOTE]
It needs to be apparent that the person is doing something illegal before you can search them. DWB, Driving While Brown, does not count.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681430]Civil rights violations = bigger problem
[editline]07:46PM[/editline]
It needs to be apparent that the person is doing something illegal before you can search them. DWB, Driving While Brown, does not count.[/QUOTE]
deter illegal immigrating and removing illegals = problem lessened
also i find it pretty funny that everyone screams rassist!!! even though this has been federal law since forever and that cops already stop suspicious looking people. arizona signs a bill to make police do the same thing they've been doing and everyone goes nuts
I honestly have no problem with this law. Illegal immigration is a big problem in the southern states, it increases drugs and crime. What gives them the right to just walk right in with a free pass while other people have to work hard to get in this country?
[QUOTE=Frostbyte113;21681562]I honestly have no problem with this law. Illegal immigration is a big problem in the southern states, it increases drugs and crime. What gives them the right to just walk right in with a free pass while other people have to work hard to get in this country?[/QUOTE]
exactly. those who have a problem with this bill are either a. illegals (this isn't their country anyways, they are not entitled to it) and b. legal ethnic groups fearing racial profiling, alas people forget
[i] you have an ID, there is no problem![/i]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681430]Civil rights violations = bigger problem
[editline]07:46PM[/editline]
It needs to be apparent that the person is doing something illegal before you can search them. DWB, Driving While Brown, does not count.[/QUOTE]
Does the law give cops the right to pull someone over for being Mexican? Or does it just say they can ask for immigration documentation once pulled over for something else?
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21681494]deter illegal immigrating and removing illegals = problem lessened
also i find it pretty funny that everyone screams rassist!!! even though this has been federal law since forever and that cops already stop suspicious looking people. arizona signs a bill to make police do the same thing they've been doing and everyone goes nuts[/QUOTE]
There has never been a law that police have the obligation to stop people who look like they could be here illegally. This is different from current laws that obligate police officers to stop those who are suspicious. I live in Indiana, and I nor any other person here can tell the different between someone who is here illegally, or someone who is here legally. It's not like they walk around with shirts that say "I'm Illegal" on them.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21681331]now if only people would protest and conjugate for other things like, oh I don't know, something more important, like our [I]economy[/I][/QUOTE]
They do. That's the whole point of May Day.
[editline]12:59AM[/editline]
On a related note: Though I'm against this law, I'm sure that arizona cops agree that it's a shitty law, and dont even enforce it
[QUOTE=OvB;21681634]Does the law give cops the right to pull someone over for being Mexican? Or does it just say they can ask for immigration documentation once pulled over for something else?[/QUOTE]
The law lets any cops with "reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally" demand that the person show their ID or be taken immediately to jail.
It does not define "reasonable suspicion", so if you think hispanics won't be targeted more frequently under this bill you are deluded.
I can't believe Facepunch of all places would support a bill so blatantly unconstitutional. I swear this forum has gotten dumber since lankist was banned.
If a hispanic who is here legally is walking to the corner store and doesn't have his ID on him, and gets stopped by the police, he will immediately be arrested. How can anyone support this kind of shit?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681815]The law lets any cops with "reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally" demand that the person show their ID or be taken immediately to jail.
It does not define "reasonable suspicion", so if you think hispanics won't be targeted more frequently under this bill you are deluded.
I can't believe Facepunch of all places would support a bill so blatantly unconstitutional. I swear this forum has gotten dumber since lankist was banned.
If a hispanic who is here legally is walking to the corner store and doesn't have his ID on him gets stopped by the police, he will immediately be arrested. How can anyone support this kind of shit?[/QUOTE]
That's p. shitty.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681815]The law lets any cops with "reasonable suspicion that the person is here illegally" demand that the person show their ID or be taken immediately to jail.
It does not define "reasonable suspicion", so if you think hispanics won't be targeted more frequently under this bill you are deluded.
I can't believe Facepunch of all places would support a bill so blatantly unconstitutional. I swear this forum has gotten dumber since lankist was banned.
If a hispanic who is here legally is walking to the corner store and doesn't have his ID on him gets stopped by the police, he will immediately be arrested. How can anyone support this kind of shit?[/QUOTE]
well here's the thing, we can either
a. shoot them at the border
b. raid everything and arrest everyone and sort them out for extradition
or c., this bill
how do you propose deterring illegal immigration and removing the already illegal? it has been statistically proven that illegal immigration has raised the crime rate.
or maybe we should just let them all in as usual, but you're not [i]deluded[/i] are you?
And race isn't the only issue either. This law makes it mandatory for EVERYONE to identify themselves to the police for no reason whatsoever. It more or less mandates that everyone carry ID on them at all times.
[editline]08:09PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21681921]well here's the thing, we can either
a. shoot them at the border
b. raid everything and arrest everyone and sort them out for extradition
or c., this bill
how do you propose deterring illegal immigration and removing the already illegal?[/QUOTE]
A false predicament logical fallacy I love these.
You're forgetting option D: Go after employers who hire illegal immigrants to make it more appealing for them to immigrate legally
or even option E: work with the Mexican government to make it more appealing for them to stay in Mexico.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681924]And race isn't the only issue either. This law makes it mandatory for EVERYONE to identify themselves to the police for no reason whatsoever. It more or less mandates that everyone carry ID on them at all times.[/QUOTE]
I never thought of this.
Now I hate this law with an extreme passion.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681924]And race isn't the only issue either. This law makes it mandatory for EVERYONE to identify themselves to the police for no reason whatsoever. It more or less mandates that everyone carry ID on them at all times.
[editline]08:09PM[/editline]
A false predicament logical fallacy I love these.
You're forgetting option D: Go after employers who hire illegal immigrants to make it more appealing for them to immigrate legally
or even option E: work with the Mexican government to make it more appealing for them to stay in Mexico.[/QUOTE]
legal people would cost more money to employ, what could possibly be more appealing to spending more money to an employer? Also, Mexico should not our problem. Immigration is. We're the defensive, not the offensive. You don't think we already haven't tried communication with Mexico?
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21681921]well here's the thing, we can either
a. shoot them at the border
b. raid everything and arrest everyone and sort them out for extradition
or c., this bill
how do you propose deterring illegal immigration and removing the already illegal? it has been statistically proven that illegal immigration has raised the crime rate.
or maybe we should just let them all in as usual, but you're not [I]deluded[/I] are you?[/QUOTE]
Do the Facepunch option and legalize drugs.
[editline]09:13PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682017]legal people would cost more money to employ, what could possibly be more appealing to spending more money to an employer?[/QUOTE]
The government not being after you?
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682017]legal people would cost more money to employ, what could possibly be more appealing to spending more money to an employer?[/quote]
I have no idea what you said there, but targeting employers who hire illegals is the #1 way to combat the problem. Streamlining the legal immigration process would be another way.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682017]Also, Mexico should not our problem. Immigration is. We're the defensive, not the offensive.[/quote]
Is that why you guys started the "War on Drugs", something that has caused a massacre at the border? Sounds like an offensive to me.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682017]You don't think we already haven't tried communication with Mexico?[/QUOTE]
Like I said, a massacre combined with giant fence that serves no purpose other than saying "fuck you" sends a very strong communication. It says "Mexico, you're the enemy".
Why do you think they don't want to work with you?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21681924]And race isn't the only issue either. This law makes it mandatory for EVERYONE to identify themselves to the police for no reason whatsoever. It more or less mandates that everyone carry ID on them at all times.[/QUOTE]
no, the police have to stop you for doing something illegal. again, police already do this. and the cop is a dick and stops you for being mexican.. then that's the cop's fault, and even before this bill, they could just stop you for suspicion of drugs.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682168]no, the police have to stop you for doing something illegal. again, police already do this. and the cop is a dick and stops you for being mexican.. then that's the cop's fault, [b][highlight]and even before this bill, they could just stop you for suspicion of drugs.[/b][/highlight][/QUOTE]
So your logic is that because cops can already break the law, making it easier for them to break the law is fine?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21682101]I have no idea what you said there, but targeting employers who hire illegals is the #1 way to combat the problem. Streamlining the legal immigration process would be another way.
Is that why you guys started the "War on Drugs", something that has caused a massacre at the border? Sounds like an offensive to me.
Like I said, a massacre combined with giant fence that serves no purpose other than saying "fuck you" sends a very strong communication. It says "Mexico, you're the enemy".
Why do you think they don't want to work with you?[/QUOTE]
i guess the next step is to just shoot them at the border then.
[editline]02:22AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21682199]So your logic is that because cops can already break the law, making it easier for them to break the law is fine?[/QUOTE]
see above
[editline]02:24AM[/editline]
cops will be cops. the bill isn't perfect, but everything tried before has failed/is failing.
[editline]02:27AM[/editline]
employers don't have to supply benefits or pay taxes or even pay minimum wage for illegals, so the only deterrent would be in this bill that employers of illegals would be punished.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682205]i guess the next step is to just shoot them at the border then.[/quote]
Can you stop discrediting perfectly legitimate alternatives please? I'm trying to have an actual debate and you're turning this into a Bill O'Reilly interview.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682205]cops will be cops. the bill isn't perfect, but everything tried before has failed/is failing.[/quote]
Everything tried before has been crap. Violating the constitution is NEVER an option no matter how bad things get. Are you a conservative? If so, you should be very well aware of this.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682205]the government is not allowed to threaten businesses, it'd get thrown into court and shot down immediately and labeled as blatant socialism.[/QUOTE]
As opposed to this bill, which didn't get shot down despite being blatant fascism.
[editline]08:34PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682205]
employers don't have to supply benefits or pay taxes or even pay minimum wage for illegals[/QUOTE]
So find those employers, shut them down, arrest them. Suddenly there is no reason to illegally go to the United States anymore since there isn't anywhere for an illegal to work.
[editline]08:35PM[/editline]
How about this: tax breaks for employers that continually prove their entire workforce is legal
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21682486]Can you stop discrediting perfectly legitimate alternatives please? I'm trying to have an actual debate and you're turning this into a Bill O'Reilly interview.
Everything tried before has been crap. Violating the constitution is NEVER an option no matter how bad things get. Are you a conservative? If so, you should be very well aware of this.
As opposed to this bill, which didn't get shot down despite being blatant fascism.
[editline]08:34PM[/editline]
So find those employers, shut them down, arrest them. Suddenly there is no reason to illegally go to the United States anymore since there isn't anywhere for an illegal to work.[/QUOTE]
what the bill states is constitutional, it's up to the police to make it not.
the person in question must be doing something suspicious.
[QUOTE=Karbinev2;21682534]what the bill states is constitutional, it's up to the police to make it not.
the person in question must be doing something suspicious.[/QUOTE]
Well then I can't wait for the lawsuits to start. This is going to be fun.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21682486]stuff
[/QUOTE]
i goofed on the blatant socialism thing, the bill is going to punish employers who hire illegals, so that is threatening
[editline]02:37AM[/editline]
as for tax breaks, that's still more money spent than hiring illegals that they can pay less
and all of your ideas are legit, but i'm sure they have been weighed before and have also not been used for a variety of unknown reasons, perhaps not being aggressive enough.
We've obviously reached an impasse then.
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