Father who took child on holiday during term-time wins at U.K. High Court - Polidicks

[URL="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36277940"]Source.[/URL] [QUOTE]A father who refused to pay a £120 fine for taking his daughter on an unauthorised term-time holiday has won a High Court ruling in his favour. Magistrates had ruled that Jon Platt had no case to answer as, overall, his daughter had attended school regularly. Isle of Wight Council had asked the High Court to clarify whether a seven-day absence amounted to a child failing to attend regularly. The judges dismissed the council's challenge. Lord Justice Lloyd Jones and Mrs Justice Thirlwall ruled that the magistrates had not "erred in law" when reaching their decision. Campaigners say the case could redefine the way the law is applied in England. Since 2013, tougher government regulations have meant head teachers can only grant leave of absence to pupils during term time in "exceptional circumstances". According to local authority data, almost 64,000 fines were issued for unauthorised absences between September 2013 and August 2014. Many parents complain that the cost of going away in the school holidays can be four times as much as during term time - but the government says the rules are needed because missing lessons can harm pupils' chances of getting good qualifications. Florida holiday Mr Platt, 44, took his daughter to Disney World in Florida in April 2015 Her school, on the Isle of Wight, had refused permission for the trip but he took her anyway and she missed seven days of lessons. Mr Platt was issued with a £60 fixed penalty fine. [/QUOTE] Glad to see some common sense won out, it's fucking stupid how parents are facing fines for taking their kids off for a few days. About ten years ago, my mum took me off on holiday for a few days but had to bring me back a day early because the vindictive cunt who was the headteacher of my old school threatened to fine her.

Who the fuck gives this kind of power to schools?

Since half term prices are jacked up so much a lot of people are happy to just pay any fine that comes their way because it still comes out cheaper than going during half term (In which prices for holidays arbitrarily triple), and often become completely unaffordable for low income families. If anything an opportunity to go to another country and see another culture is a valuable learning experience for children. The failure in common sense here is that there should be no issue with a child who attends regularly and is considered at or above their level across the board in their subjects from missing a week.

[QUOTE=Ragekipz;50312534]Who the fuck gives this kind of power to schools?[/QUOTE] Dumb people through dumb politicians.

Fucking good. Holiday prices outside of term times are so ridiculously absurd, it makes sense why parents would want to do it inside of them.

My little brothers school went mad when he had a religious holiday. Dumb shit.

I mean yeah its illegal here in America to keep your kid out of school too long, but fucking fines for going on holidays? Needing specific terms when you can go? Why the fuck do teachers have ANY power at all? I feel bad for the UK sometimes, great country but jesus you guys have some ass backward and petty laws.

I hated highschool so much, the only reason I kept going was because my parents let me take longer weekends. The final year I was so done with it, I stayed home 1/3 of the time. I got relatively okay grades though, never had to redo a year either.

[QUOTE]but the government says the rules are needed because missing lessons can harm pupils' chances of getting good qualifications. Florida holiday[/QUOTE] I hate this kind of thinking. It's the same thing with exams and their results being decisive of how "good you are as a person" and that apparently decides your future, rather than your skills as a human being. It's no wonder children skip school a lot when a lot of times it can be such a unfriendly environment. I know every school isn't like this, but I keep hearing news about inane stuff like this. Being able to fine for absence is just attempting to fear monger rather than making a practical solution to helping children feel welcome.

we usually went in-term. we just never told the school we'd be off and filed a sick note at the end of it because fuck paying a fine

Legitimately curious. What about medical leave? Are you going to get fined for pulling your kid out with bronchitis or something too? What's to stop someone from just getting a doctors note for a "leave of absence for therapeutic reasons" and just going on vacation anyways? Seems to be yet another zero tolerance-esque policy that only encourages telling lies.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50312771]Legitimately curious. What about medical leave? Are you going to get fined for pulling your kid out with bronchitis or something too? What's to stop someone from just getting a doctors note for a "leave of absence for therapeutic reasons" and just going on vacation anyways? Seems to be yet another zero tolerance-esque policy that only encourages telling lies.[/QUOTE] No, the doctor gives you a note that you give to school and everything is ok. Nothing stops them from getting a doctors note like that. If a doctor gives you a legit note, as far as legal matters are concerned it's all okay.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50312963]Wait, I thought they fined the teacher going absent. They give out fines, money penalties, to fucking pupils? This is insane. How come werent there any riots when this was passed. Lacks any sense at all.[/QUOTE] It's the UK. The place is fucked in the dumbest of ways.

[QUOTE=LittleBabyman;50312976]It's the UK. The place is fucked in the dumbest of ways.[/QUOTE] Hey! That's my country you are talking about. and you are exactly right we're so fucked up.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;50312963]Wait, I thought they fined the teacher going absent. They give out fines, money penalties, to fucking pupils? This is insane. How come werent there any riots when this was passed. Lacks any sense at all.[/QUOTE] They don't give fines to pupils, they give fines to their parents as it's seen as their responsibility to make sure their children go to school. The fines fall under your child being absent from school without a good reason, and in terms of holidays you can get an exemption from the head of the school which allows your pupil to be absent. Technically there should be nothing wrong with this because losing a week of school isn't exactly going to destroy a child's education if they have very high attendance and are not struggling. Some head teachers are pretty anally anguished about it though and don't want to let anyone go on holiday during term time.

[QUOTE=HoodedSniper;50312653]I mean yeah its illegal here in America to keep your kid out of school too long, but fucking fines for going on holidays? Needing specific terms when you can go? Why the fuck do teachers have ANY power at all? I feel bad for the UK sometimes, great country but jesus you guys have some ass backward and petty laws.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but its like 120 days or something before they even threaten to bring you to court.

You realise the schools aren't directly fining people, right? The headteachers aren't billing them, it's the local councils and authorities that are fining them. They haven't given this power to schools, they've given this power to lower government. They aren't literally fining pupils either, they're fining the parents. You don't rock up to school after a week off and have the headteacher give you a bill for £60.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50315247]You realise the schools aren't directly fining people, right? The headteachers aren't billing them, it's the local councils and authorities that are fining them. They haven't given this power to schools, they've given this power to lower government. They aren't literally fining pupils either, they're fining the parents. You don't rock up to school after a week off and have the headteacher give you a bill for £60.[/QUOTE] Explain this to me. How exactly does the local council know about the event occurring in the first place without the school complaining about it?

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50315247]You realise the schools aren't directly fining people, right? The headteachers aren't billing them, it's the local councils and authorities that are fining them. They haven't given this power to schools, they've given this power to lower government. They aren't literally fining pupils either, they're fining the parents. You don't rock up to school after a week off and have the headteacher give you a bill for £60.[/QUOTE] There are a shit ton of things you can't learn at school. Getting fined for your child missing school makes no sense and someone has to tell the person issuing the fine. Think along the lines of the police letting the court know of something that has to be looked at.

[QUOTE=MissZoey;50315247][B]You realise the schools aren't directly fining people, right? The headteachers aren't billing them, it's the local councils and authorities that are fining them.[/B] They haven't given this power to schools, they've given this power to lower government. They aren't literally fining pupils either, they're fining the parents. You don't rock up to school after a week off and have the headteacher give you a bill for £60.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zephyrs;50315305][B]Explain this to me.[/B] How exactly does the local council know about the event occurring in the first place without the school complaining about it?[/QUOTE] This is half true but it's a technicality really. It's completely at the discretion of the head teacher who has the local authority send it out on their behalf, rather than the school directly billing them, and they also have the power to make it go away. [B]So yeah the school does actually have the power to have people fined and it's down to the person to prove that they should not be fined.[/b] If you want to fight it you need to fight it directly at the school and if that doesn't work (Keep in mind that the fine doubles if not paid within 3 weeks), you need to fight it in court.

This happened to my parents with my younger brother last year. Sadly my parents gave in and paid the fine. What makes it ridiculous is that its £60 per parent, not £120 per child.

This shit explains why my cadets (or more aptly their parents) are terrified to come out of school (with a signed, stamped military letter provided) for flying and other amazing opportunities. 'Attendance' has become buzz phrase no. 2, right behind 'Results'. Letters go out regularly reminding parents that poor attendance results in punishment. The tone they've set is very scary.

Our education system in general is fucked. Theres a critical shortage of teachers at just about every level because no one wants to get involved in that shitstorm.

This is a case of it not being used properly. From my understanding, it's meant to be used for when bad parents consistently don't make their kids go to school and don't really give a shit, which is tantamount to neglect. It's not meant for taking a child out of school for one week out of the year for a holiday. This is one of those cases where the rule hasn't really been used correctly. He rightfully won at court. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cushie;50312551]If anything an opportunity to go to another country and see another culture is a valuable learning experience for children.[/QUOTE] They went to Disney :v:

[QUOTE=Doozle;50317543]From my understanding, it's meant to be used for when bad parents consistently don't make their kids go to school and don't really give a shit, which is tantamount to neglect. It's not meant for taking a child out of school for one week out of the year for a holiday.[/QUOTE] Zero tolerance policies encourage a lack of critical thinking on the part of school administration.

[QUOTE=Zephyrs;50317591]Zero tolerance policies encourage a lack of critical thinking on the part of school administration.[/QUOTE] knee jerk reactions to every sodding article posted on facepunch encourages a lack of critical thinking on part of facepunch members. I didn't say zero tolerance is a good thing. It's not supposed to be zero tolerance. As I said this is a case where it hasn't be used correctly. Which is why he quite rightly won at court, his child had otherwise good attendance. It's supposed to be used where kids aren't turning up to school for weeks at a time for no real reason at all and its because the parent hasn't been taking responsibility. And even then I'm pretty sure it doesnt just result in a fine in the post. There will be meetings between people from the school or council and the parents and if they don't have a good reason for letting their child miss school so frequently then a fine is imposed. The UK isn't the only country that does this

Term time in the UK means during the school year, right? And not when final tests are given? I'm unfamiliar with the phrase

[QUOTE=Code3Response;50317831]Term time in the UK means during the school year, right? And not when final tests are given? I'm unfamiliar with the phrase[/QUOTE] Pretty much yeah, though a lot of tests are still in term time as you can imagine.

[QUOTE=Doozle;50317543]This is a case of it not being used properly. From my understanding, it's meant to be used for when bad parents consistently don't make their kids go to school and don't really give a shit, which is tantamount to neglect. It's not meant for taking a child out of school for one week out of the year for a holiday. This is one of those cases where the rule hasn't really been used correctly. He rightfully won at court. [editline]14th May 2016[/editline] They went to Disney :v:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Doozle;50317652]knee jerk reactions to every sodding article posted on facepunch encourages a lack of critical thinking on part of facepunch members. I didn't say zero tolerance is a good thing. It's not supposed to be zero tolerance. As I said this is a case where it hasn't be used correctly. Which is why he quite rightly won at court, his child had otherwise good attendance. It's supposed to be used where kids aren't turning up to school for weeks at a time for no real reason at all and its because the parent hasn't been taking responsibility. And even then I'm pretty sure it doesnt just result in a fine in the post. There will be meetings between people from the school or council and the parents and if they don't have a good reason for letting their child miss school so frequently then a fine is imposed. The UK isn't the only country that does this[/QUOTE] It isn't specifically meant for parents who don't make their kids go to school, it is also meant for holidays. Parents NEED to get the permission of the head teacher of the school to take their kids out for holiday, which parents often try to because as soon as half term hits prices go as high as 400% on holidays just because it's a high demand season, meaning a lot of people can't afford it or won't pay it. Like I said, the reason it's completely stupid is because the whole point is if a child is in very good attendance and doing fine there is no reason for the head teacher to deny them holiday, but some head teachers are very adamant that [b]nobody[/B] should be allowed to go on holiday during term time. The reason he won is because the rule wasn't applied correctly, his child attended regularly so a one off week away could not be classed as 'not attending regularly'. The problem is he had to pay a ridiculous amount of money in a legal battle just to prove he was right, [B]most of the fines are for this exact situation and 99.9% of people just pay them because they would rather pay a £60 fine than go to court and fight an expensive legal battle over it.[/B] On top of that a £60 fine comes nowhere near how much more you'd need to pay to go on holiday during a half term so a lot of parents are happy to accept that fine because they are still not having to pay insane prices for a holiday. Also it doesn't matter if it's Disney, it's still good learning/life experience. [QUOTE=Code3Response;50317831]Term time in the UK means during the school year, right? And not when final tests are given? I'm unfamiliar with the phrase[/QUOTE] Term time is just when the school is operating normally. We usually 3 terms a year which have a 1 week break half way through (Half term holiday), then a 2-3 week break for the full term holiday (Christmas, Easter) with the final term ending on summer holidays from around June-September

My parents were threatened by the police when I missed a day to go to the doctor "If your child misses another day, we'll fine and take you to court." I went to the doctor to get an echocardiogram done which could have been a life or death situation, but no they'd rather me be in school because the one day I missed makes my parents "way out of line." Note that football players in the same school have missed months at a time (state limit is 8 days). Schools and respective governments are horrible.