• Tea Party counter-protesters join fray in Wisconsin
    251 replies, posted
[B]CNN Tea Party counter-protesters join fray in Wisconsin [/B] [release]Tea Party activists supporting a bill that would slash collective bargaining rights of Wisconsin public employees flocked to Madison on Saturday, bringing a new dimension to a budget battle that shows few signs of finding a middle ground. As tens of thousands of people marched in favor or against the bill, Republican Gov. Scott Walker indicated he has the votes to pass it. "We're going to stay firm on it," he said on the fifth day of large protests and political wrangling in the capital, which saw the arrival of conservative groups. "Wisconsin is ground zero," said Tim Phillips, president of Americans for Prosperity. "I think it is going to determine largely whether the pampered nature of these public employees is finally reined in." Walker has called on 14 Democratic state senators who fled the state rather than allow a quorum permitting a vote on the bill, to return to Madison. Bill opponents say they won't allow a vote unless Walker negotiates on the plan to eliminate collective bargaining rights for everything but wages. The legislation also would require most employees to pay more for their pensions and health insurance benefits. "I have been informed that all state and local public employees -- including teachers -- have agreed to the financial aspects of Gov. Walker's request," said Sen. Jon Erpenbach, a Democrat. "This includes Walker's requested concessions on public employee health care and pension. In return they ask only that the provisions that deny their right to collectively bargain are removed. This will solve the budget challenge." Walker, who says the state is "broke," is asking legislators to pass his Budget Repair Bill to combat a $137 million shortfall through June 30. An upcoming two-year budget for 2011-13 must address a pending $3.6 billion deficit, he said. The governor's press secretary, Cullen Werwie, released a statement Saturday calling on Erpenbach, Senate Minority Leader Mark Miller and other Democrats to return from Illinois. "These are many of the same senators who, two years ago, rammed through a billion-dollar tax hike in 24 hours with no public input," the statement said. "The quickest way to resolve the current situation is for the Democratic senators to stop shirking their responsibilities and debate the bill in Madison." Opponents say the proposed legislation is an attack on workers' rights. Until Saturday's counter-demonstrators appeared, the growing protests since Monday were largely made up of those against Walker's plan. Teachers and other public employees kept the pressure on the governor to go to the bargaining table. Karen Schwedrsky told CNN that the bill would add an additional $208 to $567 to her family's monthly insurance premiums. "We need to look at alternatives here," she said. "We don't need to divide this country. Everybody who works deserves rights." Madison teacher Karen Kaminsky said she wouldn't have gone to college if her father had not been in a union. "This will break the backs of middle-class families," she told CNN affiliate WTMJ, adding Walker should be willing to negotiate. Saturday's protests inside and outside the Capitol were the largest of the week, numbering about 55,000, said Carla Vigue, spokeswoman for the Wisconsin Department of Administration. Some estimates were much higher. Friday saw about 40,000 demonstrators, Vigue said. The conservative group American Majority helped organize the "I Stand With Walker" campaign evident this weekend in Madison. "Buses will be coming from across the state, bringing citizens fed up with big union contracts and bloated government," the group said on its website. "We win here, we win everywhere." White House Press Secretary Jay Carney addressed the continued protests Friday, saying President Barack Obama "is very understanding of the need for state governments, governors, state legislatures to reduce spending to make tough choices to be fiscally responsible." But he added, "He also feels very strongly that we need not to make this an assault on the collective bargaining rights of workers in any given state. "He understands public employees need to make sacrifices just like everyone else." Walker's proposed legislation requires workers to cover more of their health care premiums and pension contributions, although supporters say local governments will decide on health care contributions for their employees Walker contends the increases are "modest" compared to what workers in private industry pay. It also requires collective bargaining units to conduct annual votes to maintain certification, a costly procedure, and eliminates the right of unions to have dues deducted from worker paychecks.[/release] [url]http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/02/19/wisconsin.budget/index.html?hpt=T1[/url] Other sources and Sites covering this: FOX: Protesters Gather In Wisconsin: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRtsGzLYZPs[/url] (Embedding disabled) CBS: [url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/02/19/national/main20033983.shtml?tag=cbsContent;cbsCarousel]Thousands of protesters surround Wis. Capitol[/url] Sorry the counter protesters were late. They have to work for a living.
[QUOTE=Glaber;28157317] Sorry the counter protesters were late. They have to work for a living.[/QUOTE] this is so without substance i mean how about, instead of playing up the difference between liberals and conservatives you actually address the issue at hand (public worker's benefits) and speak about it in a well informed way
Woo, Wisconsin
It's based on one of their signs [quote=FOX News, different article]Saturday's line-up included a rally organized by Tea Party Patriots, the movement's largest umbrella group, and Americans for Prosperity. Their supporters carried signs with a fresh set of messages: "Your Gravy Train Is Over . . . Welcome to the Recession" and [B]"Sorry, we're late Scott. We work for a living."[/B][/quote] [url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/#ixzz1ESQAzIhD[/url]
So basically they're protesting in order to get the government to remove other people's rights Heh small government supporters Hypocritical fuckbags more like it
whoopee, now adress the issue speak for the article you posted, because it doesn't really make any points. It draws no major conclusions that i can see. prove you are not posting air [editline]19th February 2011[/editline] i would love if, just for once, people stopped caring about fox news and actually called glaber out on the content of what he was posting. ask him to account for his own, personal political opinions and whatever it may be that has driven him to post this
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28157389]whoopee, now adress the issue speak for the article you posted, because it doesn't really make any points. It draws no major conclusions that i can see. prove you are not posting air[/QUOTE] he doesnt have to this is itn and he posted a news article what did he do wrong exactly
i cannot divine what you are trying to teach us by posting this other than "conservatives are not liberals. conservatives do things that are not liberal things" [QUOTE=yawmwen;28157405]he doesnt have to this is itn and he posted a news article what did he do wrong exactly[/QUOTE] that's the issue. he posts everything within the rules but he still causes nothing but dischord by posting things of only the most subjective and divisive things he can find, and he's never called to account for the content of what he posts because everyone cares more about the fact that he's posting stuff from fox than what he's actually saying
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28157415]i cannot divine what you are trying to teach us by posting this other than "conservatives are not liberals. conservatives do things that are not liberal things"[/QUOTE] Don't forget "Conservatives have more common sense than Liberals".
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28157452]Don't forget "Conservatives have more common sense than Liberals".[/QUOTE] conservatives are good because they hold the values i ascribe to good people. liberals are bad because they fail to hold those values. examples of conservatives failing to hold said values can be disarmed by posting examples of liberals failing to hold those values. i live in an entirely subjective rhetorical whirlpool and i want to die
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28157530]conservatives are good because they hold the values i ascribe to good people. liberals are bad because they fail to hold those values. examples of conservatives failing to hold said values can be disarmed by posting examples of liberals failing to hold those values. i live in an entirely subjective rhetorical whirlpool and i want to die[/QUOTE] everyone lives in that world
but we can at least rebel against it instead of perpetrating it
[quote]"Wisconsin is ground zero," said Tim Phillips, president of Americans for Prosperity. "I think it is going to determine largely whether the pampered nature of these public employees is finally reined in."[/quote] The President for American Prosperity calls public employees pampered? :irony: [editline]19th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Glaber;28157369]It's based on one of their signs [url]http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/02/19/saturdays-protests-wisconsin-expected-biggest/#ixzz1ESQAzIhD[/url][/QUOTE] Do public employees not work? [editline]19th February 2011[/editline] like firefighters, teachers and policemen?
Pampered? Is that guy out of his mind?
[QUOTE=Habsburg;28157568] [editline]19th February 2011[/editline] Do public employees not work? [editline]19th February 2011[/editline] like firefighters, teachers and policemen?[/QUOTE] A lot of them are refusing to work during this whole mess.
Dumb tea-party protesters will rally against a sack of potatoes if a conservative leader says to.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;28157606]A lot of them are refusing to work during this whole mess.[/QUOTE] Well I would too if my rights were being assaulted.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28157600]Pampered? Is that guy out of his mind?[/QUOTE] Relative to private sector, they pay less into their benefits. Even with the changes in this bill, it's my understanding they'd still pay less.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;28157606]A lot of them are refusing to work during this whole mess.[/QUOTE] I'm also willing to bet some of the protesters were unemployed or unable to find work. To say, "Oh we had to work for a living" is like calling people who can't find jobs lazy. [editline]19th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=dogmachines;28157623]Relative to private sector, they pay less into their benefits. Even with the changes in this bill, it's my understanding they'd still pay less.[/QUOTE] Having decent benefits isn't really the same as being "pampered".
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;28157636] [editline]19th February 2011[/editline] Having decent benefits isn't really the same as being "pampered".[/QUOTE] His words, not mine. They aren't pampered, but they have it easier than workers in the private sector when it comes to how much of their paycheck goes to things like healthcare and their pensions.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;28157689]His words, not mine. They aren't pampered, but they have it easier than workers in the private sector when it comes to how much of their paycheck goes to things like healthcare and their pensions.[/QUOTE] That is true.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;28157689]His words, not mine. They aren't pampered, but they have it easier than workers in the private sector when it comes to how much of their paycheck goes to things like healthcare and their pensions.[/QUOTE] Alright so the tea party counter protest makes no sense whatsoever.
[QUOTE=Habsburg;28157834]Alright so the tea party counter protest makes no sense whatsoever.[/QUOTE] It makes sense. The public sector has to pay a bit more towards their benefits to cut state spending, and they are throwing a fit. The union rights are a debatable thing, I'm not sure how that cuts spending, or if it's being done just to stop the unions from trying to undo the changes and therefore the spending cut.
and they are throwing a fit rightfully because state spending is being cut from all of these pittiances that the public welfare depends on instead of the big armor plated, fully automatic, 20-percent-of-the-budget elephant in the room
[QUOTE=Zeke129;28157379]So basically they're protesting in order to get the government to remove other people's rights Heh small government supporters Hypocritical fuckbags more like it[/QUOTE] They only hate it when government messes with rich dudes. everything else is ok.
How does public welfare depend on the state paying for most of it's workers benefits? It's not like the workers would even have to pay for as much as private workers, just just need to cut enough to get the budget balanced. I'd like to see the rest of the budget too.
[QUOTE=dogmachines;28158019]How does public welfare depend on the state paying for most of it's workers benefits? It's not like the workers would even have to pay for as much as private workers, just just need to cut enough to get the budget balanced.[/QUOTE] cutting this chump change isn't going to balance the budget though. that's the issue, it's a terrible solution. it's a sacrifice to no tangible ends
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;28158062]cutting this chump change isn't going to balance the budget though. that's the issue, it's a terrible solution. it's a sacrifice to no tangible ends[/QUOTE] That's why I'd like to see more of the budget, it's easier to justify a cut here if there are cuts elsewhere. It's there's a huge chunk of pointless spending, it should go first. I don't think anyone really wants public workers to have what is basically a small pay cut, it's just a matter of whether the state can afford it.
fine i'll google it for you. all the information of the world at your fingertips and you insist on being shown something [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_United_States_federal_budget[/url] with the exception of the department of defense, all state departments (only a portion of which represents the funding of employees thereof) recieve, combined, less than 20 percent of the US's budget the department of defense on it's own recieves about as much funding than the other departments combined
[QUOTE=dogmachines;28158097]That's why I'd like to see more of the budget, it's easier to justify a cut here if there are cuts elsewhere. It's there's a huge chunk of pointless spending, it should go first. I don't think anyone really wants public workers to have what is basically a small pay cut, it's just a matter of whether the state can afford it.[/QUOTE] Well in order to do that, we may need to get the 14 democrats back from wherever they are hiding. Wrong budget SigmaLambda. That's the NATIONAL budget, not the STATE budget of Wisconsin
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.