[quote]Birmingham City Council chamber erupted in cheers Tuesday after council unanimously approved a resolution designating Birmingham a sancturary city.
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Cesar Mata was first at the podium to speak.
"We want to be a city where everyone has the same rights and people have no fear to call the police if they are victims of a crime," Mata explained why he wants Birmingham to be a sanctuary city.
Mata is an illegal immigrant from Mexico. He's been in Birmingham 19 years.
"I'm not going to run no more," Mata told ABC 33/40. "I'm going to stop running and fight for what I think is right.... I'm working. I'm paying my taxes. A lot of people think we don't pay taxes. Yes, we do pay taxes."
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Earlier Tuesday morning, Mayor William Bell called on council to designate Birmingham a "Welcoming City."
"We will not allow our police department to be a second arm of the federal government in terms of policing federal laws," Bell said in a news conference. "We will protect the citizens against individual whether foreign or domestic that violate the laws in this community, criminal laws in this community, and will take the appropriate action to deal with that but we will not become an enforcement arm of the immigration services of this county."
[/quote]
[url]http://abc3340.com/news/local/birmingham-city-council-unanimously-passes-sanctuary-city-resolution[/url]
Birmingham is one of the most liberal cities in the entire south-east, but its surprising even then that they'd at least do this.
Does the extend to the suburbs as well, or just Birmingham proper?
[QUOTE=biodude94566;51758132]Does the extend to the suburbs as well, or just Birmingham proper?[/QUOTE]It covers Birmingham jurisdiction, which extends out to parts of the suburbs and surrounding area.
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51758166]Since this is the City Council, I assume their authority is over the City proper, and that would be this beast I guess:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/Y0M6sVC.png[/t][/QUOTE]
gerrymandering is a hell of a drug
The fact that a city can openly declare it isn't going to abide by the law and face no reprocussions is mind numbingly stupid.
Almost as stupid as the fact that people can admit openly that they're literally not supposed to be here and get anything besides a trip back to the border for it.
Hopefully these things change.
And next thing you know, Trump declares it a "fake city".
[QUOTE=Judas;51758196]gerrymandering is a hell of a drug[/QUOTE]A lot of it comes from the irregular growth of the city and the way it has slowly been carved up by smaller suburb communities breaking off to form their own jurisdictions.
[editline]31st January 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51758211]I am probably wrong. CAn someone run down how cities, city councils and mayors work in big, intersecting places like these? I mean, Hoover has its own mayor apparently. While being a suburb of Birmingham.[/QUOTE]Technically Hoover is its own distinct city, but it forms the greater metropolitan area most just call "Birmingham".
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51758238]Though I meant in a legal way. So was I right when I said that the Birmingham city council's jurisdiction, and this bills area, was that in that map?
I mean, there is no legal hierarchy of some sorts between Hoover and Birmingham right? Hoover can tell Birmingham to go fuck themselves and arrest illegals who cross to Hoover to shop or something?[/QUOTE]Technically yes, they could. The county as a whole is fairly progressive however.
For all my problems with this state and my strong desire to leave it, I don't hate this city. We've still got problems, but we've done a lot to improve since the days it was also known as "Bombingham" and our public safety commissioner had an APC he rolled out on to the streets all the time. And with the massive micro-city that forms the UAB campus, there are strong liberal feelings in the area.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;51758200]The fact that a city can openly declare it isn't going to abide by the law and face no reprocussions is mind numbingly stupid.
Almost as stupid as the fact that people can admit openly that they're literally not supposed to be here and get anything besides a trip back to the border for it.
Hopefully these things change.[/QUOTE]
He's not hurting anyone, he's acting no different than an American citizen is. He's working, paying taxes, speaking english, and abiding by the law (with one exception), so what's the problem?
It's not like deporting him to Mexico would do anything other than destroy his life, seeing as he's been here for 2 decades.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51758259]Technically yes, they could. The county as a whole is fairly progressive however.
For all my problems with this state and my strong desire to leave it, I don't hate this city. We've still got problems, but we've done a lot to improve since the days it was also known as "Bombingham" and our public safety commissioner had an APC he rolled out on to the streets all the time. And with the massive micro-city that forms the UAB campus, there are strong liberal feelings in the area.[/QUOTE]
When will god emperor Tommy Battle turn Huntsville into a sanctuary city? :weeb:
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51758020][url]http://abc3340.com/news/local/birmingham-city-council-unanimously-passes-sanctuary-city-resolution[/url]
Birmingham is one of the most liberal cities in the entire south-east, but its surprising even then that they'd at least do this.[/QUOTE]
Dude, Zed, how is Birmingham liberal? I guess I haven't been going to the good parts, I feel like Huntsville is the most progressive.
[QUOTE=ZakkShock;51758339]Dude, Zed, how is Birmingham liberal? I guess I haven't been going to the good parts, I feel like Huntsville is the most progressive.[/QUOTE]Well, the thriving LGBT community, not to mention our voting record which regularly goes blue for the whole county. 52-45 in favor of Hillary during the election for instance and literally the only county to vote against a weird, "Second Amendment Protection" bill a couple of years ago. The UAB Campus helps tremendously being a massive hub of multi-national and multi-cultural students who basically cover the entirety of southside.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51758366]Well, the thriving LGBT community, not to mention our voting record which regularly goes blue for the whole county. 52-45 in favor of Hillary during the election for instance and literally the only county to vote against a weird, "Second Amendment Protection" bill a couple of years ago. The UAB Campus helps tremendously being a massive hub of multi-national and multi-cultural students who basically cover the entirety of southside.[/QUOTE]
I... okay color me schooled. Didn't consider UAB.
There was an anti trump protest over here at University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa today too. Nice to see this state moving in a good direction, especially with idiots like Sessions being in the national spotlight recently.
huh, peep that
sometimes I forget that there are places in this state that aren't as godawful as the rest of it
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;51758278]He's not hurting anyone, he's acting no different than an American citizen is. He's working, paying taxes, speaking english, and abiding by the law (with one exception), so what's the problem?
It's not like deporting him to Mexico would do anything other than destroy his life, seeing as he's been here for 2 decades.[/QUOTE]
To me it is a problem. Mother immigrated to the US and had to go through the legal process. She paid her fees and has to keep renewing her green card. If she doesn't she will be deported.
I don't care, to me what you state is an excuse. If he is here illegally, he is committing a crime. He has had 19 years here he has no excuse for not getting a green card. There are a few options for him.
We're a nation of immigrants but we're also a nation of laws. When someone is here illegally they might be paying certain taxes but they're still a drain on tax payers. They use public assistance, medical care, schools, and other resources which are a burden on tax payers. You may be here illegally and some may pay taxes but not all of them do. Regardless illegal immigration is a burden on tax payers.
Change the process to immigrate? I think so. Look at case by case and if someone is of good merit and has been a productive member allow them to immigrate properly and pay the related fees. Should there be more assistance and resources for these people? yes. To just have a blind sanctuary system is foolish in my eyes.
I'm not by any means saying their terrible people or monsters, but the law is the law and it needs to be enforced and followed. Improve the system to allow migrate properly, handle illegal immigrants cases as invidious situations and see what is warranted.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;51758200]The fact that a city can openly declare it isn't going to abide by the law and face no reprocussions is mind numbingly stupid.
Almost as stupid as the fact that people can admit openly that they're literally not supposed to be here and get anything besides a trip back to the border for it.
Hopefully these things change.[/QUOTE]
ya so every cop now has to worry about people fleeing from him all the time for everything including routine stops? you watch, they arent required by law to ask for citizenship proof yet and in some places they cant but trump will issue an order stating all officers have to ask for citizenship at every stop, which will make every officers job much harder in places where lots of illegal immigrants potentially live
The problem I have with "Sanctuary Cities" is that they are flagrant bucking of Federal jurisdiction, and of the rule of law on the whole.
Imagine for a moment that metropolitan areas in the U.S. South East, or rural principalities throughout the Midwest and South West began establishing themselves as [B]Enclave Cities.[/B] Let's further imagine that Enclave cities, in the interest of upholding a human's right to embrace and express their beliefs protected their civil servants and occupants from any legal repercussions they may face for actions they take along [I]religiously motivated[/I] lines, so long as it is believed those actions are taken with genuine, credible religious belief.
Bear in mind we [I]do[/I] recognize that Religion is a fundamentally inalienable part of your person. Hence the outrage, to a large extent, over the 'Muslim' travel ban.
I'll go ahead and spell out what happens next, for those of you with weak imaginations.
Immediately, Christians, Muslims, Orthodox Jews even, begin to enforce their religious beliefs on others. Baptist clerks stop recognizing homosexual marriages, Extremist Muslims form Sharia religious patrols, Orthodox Jews begin angrily accosting immodestly dressed Jewish men and women.
"We're just protecting their right to live, [I]as themselves without fear of persecution,[/I] in this country," say the masterminds behind the [B]Enclave Cities.[/B] "Why should anyone be afraid of expressing their truly held beliefs? Doesn't our constitution guarantee the separation of Church from State? Well in this case, let the churches act without the state's interference!"
Now I grant, freely, this a mildly absurdist example. But it serves to drive the point. If we set the precedent that it is somehow okay for areas to just say, "lol we're exempt from laws because we don't like them :)" then, well. [B]Welcome to States Rights 2, Neon Confederacy.[/B]
I say all of this being someone who's life has been filled with emigres, international friendships and bonds, and is actively trying to marry a citizen of another country. The system we have for these processes is large, burdensome, and by no means, "easy." But eschewing the system, fundamentally tearing down the border, and saying, "alright, stop enforcing immigration controls!" has to be the most fundamentally anarchistic idea that somehow has traction in this day and age for reasons that largely escape me. (Save blatant bleeding heart sympathy that is, although noble in it's ways, is no way to run any area of any significance.)
^
see the difference is that sanctuary cities only refuse to comply with the part of the law that makes it difficult for civil servants such as police, paramedics, firemen, even local government officials to interact with illegal aliens. its not advocating anarchy or deliberate pick and choose policies. in this case it absolutely should be a local right to refuse to comply if they believe that in complying it would make their police's jobs much more dangerous or difficult
[QUOTE=Crazy Ivan;51759283]The problem I have with "Sanctuary Cities" is that they are flagrant bucking of Federal jurisdiction, and of the rule of law on the whole.
Imagine for a moment that metropolitan areas in the U.S. South East, or rural principalities throughout the Midwest and South West began establishing themselves as [B]Enclave Cities.[/B] Let's further imagine that Enclave cities, in the interest of upholding a human's right to embrace and express their beliefs protected their civil servants and occupants from any legal repercussions they may face for actions they take along [I]religiously motivated[/I] lines, so long as it is believed those actions are taken with genuine, credible religious belief.
Bear in mind we [I]do[/I] recognize that Religion is a fundamentally inalienable part of your person. Hence the outrage, to a large extent, over the 'Muslim' travel ban.
I'll go ahead and spell out what happens next, for those of you with weak imaginations.
Immediately, Christians, Muslims, Orthodox Jews even, begin to enforce their religious beliefs on others. Baptist clerks stop recognizing homosexual marriages, Extremist Muslims form Sharia religious patrols, Orthodox Jews begin angrily accosting immodestly dressed Jewish men and women.
"We're just protecting their right to live, [I]as themselves without fear of persecution,[/I] in this country," say the masterminds behind the [B]Enclave Cities.[/B] "Why should anyone be afraid of expressing their truly held beliefs? Doesn't our constitution guarantee the separation of Church from State? Well in this case, let the churches act without the state's interference!"
Now I grant, freely, this a mildly absurdist example. But it serves to drive the point. If we set the precedent that it is somehow okay for areas to just say, "lol we're exempt from laws because we don't like them :)" then, well. [B]Welcome to States Rights 2, Neon Confederacy.[/B]
I say all of this being someone who's life has been filled with emigres, international friendships and bonds, and is actively trying to marry a citizen of another country. The system we have for these processes is large, burdensome, and by no means, "easy." But eschewing the system, fundamentally tearing down the border, and saying, "alright, stop enforcing immigration controls!" has to be the most fundamentally anarchistic idea that somehow has traction in this day and age for reasons that largely escape me. (Save blatant bleeding heart sympathy that is, although noble in it's ways, is no way to run any area of any significance.)[/QUOTE]
The problem I have with "Sanctuary Cities" is that they are flagrant bucking of Federal jurisdiction, and of the rule of law on the whole.
Imagine for a moment that metropolitan areas in the U.S. South East, or rural principalities throughout the Midwest and South West began establishing themselves as [B]Haven Cities.[/B] Let's further imagine that Haven cities, in the interest of upholding a human's right to embrace and express their beliefs protected their civil servants and occupants from any legal repercussions they may face for actions they take along [b]beating people to a pulp for absolutely no reason.[/b]
The problem I have with "Sanctuary Cities" is that they are flagrant bucking of Federal jurisdiction, and of the rule of law on the whole.
Imagine for a moment that metropolitan areas in the U.S. South East, or rural principalities throughout the Midwest and South West began establishing themselves as [B]Witch Coven Cities.[/B] Let's further imagine that Witch Covencities, in the interest of upholding a human's right to embrace and express their beliefs protected their civil servants and occupants from any legal repercussions they may face for actions they take along [b]sacrificing babies, boiling animals and charging to do voodoo[/b]
This is fun!
I call it the "lets make a ludicrous polemic based upon false equivalence and boundless creativity" game
Whats wrong with using voodo though
Can you face legal repercussions for using voodo?
[QUOTE=WhyNott;51759901]Whats wrong with using voodo though
Can you face legal repercussions for using voodo?[/QUOTE]
Ah apparently only if you are paid for it. I'll edit the post.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51758259]Technically yes, they could. The county as a whole is fairly progressive however.
For all my problems with this state and my strong desire to leave it, I don't hate this city. We've still got problems, but we've done a lot to improve since the days it was also known as "Bombingham" and our public safety commissioner had an APC he rolled out on to the streets all the time. And with the massive micro-city that forms the UAB campus, there are strong liberal feelings in the area.[/QUOTE]
I agree, I also live here (senior at UAB) and it's very odd coming from a small backwater town also in Alabama. The general feeling is very progressive overall, of course we do have our fair share of biblethumpers but the city and the culture itself reminds me of up north.
Although this bill is a little worrying because I'm not exactly sure how a city can just relieve itself of federal jurisdiction
[sp]p.s. Birmingham fp folks should all meet up[/sp]
How do you pay taxes if you're not a citizen?
[QUOTE=Trebgarta;51758166]Since this is the City Council, I assume their authority is over the City proper, and that would be this beast I guess:
[t]https://i.imgur.com/Y0M6sVC.png[/t][/QUOTE]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/pWwJ0VU.png[/img]
Who's fucking idea was this.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;51760893]How do you pay taxes if you're not a citizen?[/QUOTE]
Undocumented immigrants usually generate tax through property, income, and sales taxes on a local level.
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;51760893]How do you pay taxes if you're not a citizen?[/QUOTE]
Because any employer not paying income tax on their workers is going to get hung, drawn and quartered by the IRS.
And the IRS only cares about getting paid, so as long the tax amount is correct they turn a blind eye to the "borrowed" social security numbers of the employees.
Plus of course sales tax, which works the same whether someone is legal or not.
[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;51761032][img]http://i.imgur.com/pWwJ0VU.png[/img]
Who's fucking idea was this.[/QUOTE]
2012 was a hell of a drug
[url]http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/10/jefferson_county_commissioners_34.html[/url]
[url]http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2012/10/alabama_legislative_redistrict.html[/url]
[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;51760893]How do you pay taxes if you're not a citizen?[/QUOTE]
People living in the US illegally can contact the IRS and apply for an Individual Tax Identification Number, this serves the same purpose as a Social Security Number when filing taxes. It's often used by illegal immigrants and the IRS knows it, but the IRS don't care as long as you pay your dues.
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