I think the 'wait a minute, that card' thing is a bit misunderstood. The bell ringing combination is a password, not a puzzle.
[sp]Infinite is still pretty boring though[/sp]
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;44766397]I think the 'wait a minute, that card' thing is a bit misunderstood. The bell ringing combination is a password, not a puzzle.
[sp]Infinite is still pretty boring though[/sp][/QUOTE]
Well they had an entire lighthouse to play with but they just decided to give you a card and a prompt instead.
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;44766397]I think the 'wait a minute, that card' thing is a bit misunderstood. The bell ringing combination is a password, not a puzzle.
[sp]Infinite is still pretty boring though[/sp][/QUOTE]
A password that you could brute force by hand in less than an hour?
[QUOTE=Quiet;44766678]A password that you could brute force by hand in less than an hour?[/QUOTE]
You do realize half the human population that's currently online still thinks "qwerty" is a good password, right?
[QUOTE=Quiet;44766678]A password that you could brute force by hand in less than an hour?[/QUOTE]
Only if you know that those bells would lead to something.
[editline]9th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=nikomo;44766738]You do realize half the human population that's currently online still thinks "qwerty" is a good password, right?[/QUOTE]
You do realize 1, 2, 3 would be something I tried almost immediately, and would've gotten the combination of 1, 2, 2 in the process, right?
[QUOTE=Dirty_Ape;44766397]I think the 'wait a minute, that card' thing is a bit misunderstood. The bell ringing combination is a password, not a puzzle.
[sp]Infinite is still pretty boring though[/sp][/QUOTE]
it's an event in the game that you need to figure out, so yeah, it's a goddamn puzzle. a baby puzzle? yes, but still a puzzle.
I thought it made sense. The whole thing was that the jeweler was gonna rip off buyers by selling the fake crown at full price, and then selling the real crown later on. The "puzzle" was knowing to look for the real crown, and being able to steal the letter from the guy writing it at his desk without him noticing, because he was sending the combination to his co-conspirators. (Or you could cheese it and just knock him out.) It wasn't meant to be a riddle or a puzzle; he was literally writing out the combination explicitly so that his accomplice could read it.
Thief 4 had a lot of fucking problems and was not really a good game, but this was not the shit I had the problem with.
[editline]9th May 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=scratch (nl);44763106]this is from the comments
[t]http://i.imgur.com/0OvhmJa.png[/t][/QUOTE]
Again, I don't see the problem. The master Thief overhears that there's an especially valuable thing nearby, so the master Thief says to himself "Hmm, I should steal it." And then it becomes a mission; it's not solving a goddamn puzzle for you, it's starting a mission. Just like when they gave you cutscenes in the original Thief games telling you exactly what you were stealing and why.
So in other words, they shouldn't have made a mission about the Jewelry store.
well that's besides the point, but there were much larger problems with the game that made it bad.
[editline]9th May 2014[/editline]
like the most obnoxious overworld ever created in history
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44767589]hardly besides the point because the video is a prime example of why its a bad game and shows that fans of the series wanted it to actually be good (but it wasnt!!!)[/QUOTE]
no it was a bad game because it had a terrible overworld with a bullshit, uninteresting plot that systematically ruined the established lore, characters, and setting at every turn
not because some idiots making videos on the internet thought something was a puzzle when it wasnt
[editline]9th May 2014[/editline]
this is is by far among the least offensive parts of that game
[editline]9th May 2014[/editline]
if you're gonna tear apart a game tear apart the parts that deserved to be shat on, like literally everything else
thief is a bad game, but this video is not why its a bad game; it's like thinking eating shit is disgusting because someone squirted some ketchup on top; i mean the shit is still disgusting by why would the ketchup be the reason the shit is disgusting? it's totally illogical to me to be blaming the shit that's not responsible for it being shit for causing the shit to be shit
[editline]9th May 2014[/editline]
it's like playing ride to hell retribution and you stop on the grounds that it's a terrible game because you think that the sky isn't the right shade of blue; a million fucking things are wrong with the game and you focus your energies on the one thing that isn't really wrong to begin with?
Can't we just get along in hating a game
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44767751]id pull your post apart and tell you why you don't seem to be understanding the points and jokes that have already been said in this thread but i doubt you would read/understand it
but just for a laugh il humor you slightly
ride to hell retribution isnt based on a previous series thats main feature was looking at a beautiful sky
thief was about stealing shit, the new game made stealing shit boring and insulting so people are allowed to talk shit about whatever they like and its valid[/QUOTE]
no i think you're the one who doesn't understand
there is nothing wrong with the cutscene or that combination being written in a note. if you wanna make fun of stealing being boring than dont show the one thing that wasnt fucking broken. show the obnoxious overworld, show the ai that is almost as easy as the ai in dishonored, show the hilariously bad dream sequences with your deceased partner, show the stupid pervy puzzle in the brothel level that exists only to give 12 year olds boners, show literally anything else
dont show a part of the game that actually works and is kinda fun
[QUOTE=Water-Marine;44767771]Can't we just get along in hating a game[/QUOTE]
Well I think we all can agree that minecraft is universally a good game.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;44767800]no i think you're the one who doesn't understand
there is nothing wrong with the cutscene or that combination being written in a note. if you wanna make fun of stealing being boring than dont show the one thing that wasnt fucking broken. show the obnoxious overworld, show the ai that is almost as easy as the ai in dishonored, show the hilariously bad dream sequences with your deceased partner, show the stupid pervy puzzle in the brothel level that exists only to give 12 year olds boners, show literally anything else
dont show a part of the game that actually works and is kinda fun[/QUOTE]
Wait, did you just call that section shown in the video fun? Enlighten me on that. Just that opinion, no more and no less.
[QUOTE=Water-Marine;44767822]Wait, did you just call that section shown in the video fun? Enlighten me on that. Just that opinion, no more and no less.[/QUOTE]
full disclosure; i'll admit that at that point i was still coming off of dishonored so literally anything was more fun than that
i liked the jeweler's mission because it had a hidden failure condition, the condition of not realizing that the crown was fake, meaning that players could leave the area without the real treasure which was a nice change of pace compared to most games that railroaded you on one path; the fact that they have that failure condition was miles ahead of most games. it wasn't very well hidden and it was a very tiny level but it's still pretty nice.
i also enjoyed the layout in that level; especially considering that you are still learning the lockpick mechanics, and i like to play stealth games 100% ghost, so it gave a nice live and safe yet relatively tense scenario where you had to lockpick a whole row of locked containers to loot them without getting caught in between the guard patrol. it was a nice way to ease players into that mechanic because that level was still basically a part of the tutorial.
finally, i kinda enjoyed looting the jeweler's desk and breaking into his safe while he was still pacing around his room, that's always fun in stealth games.
it was no life of the party but at that point in time i was thinking to myself "you know this game might not be that bad after all; it's certainly not as good as the originals but this has some potential still; if they expand upon the mechanics introduced in this tutorial level and give them a full outing then this could actually be a good game"
boy was i wrong
-snip- misread
So basically you're saying everything just sort of dropped off after the tutorials? That sounds about right, really.
To be fair that is literally the first safe in the game if you just go straight to the mission, later on the combinations are hidden much better. Like the one where the combination is the son's birthday but his birthday is never mentioned so you have to use the date the note was written (it was a letter for the kids birthday) and the kids age to work out the combination. The safe is also never mentioned in any of the notes in that area.
[QUOTE=Water-Marine;44767940]So basically you're saying everything just sort of dropped off after the tutorials? That sounds about right, really.[/QUOTE]
basically the moment i hit the overworld i was like "you know i kinda dont want to play this anymore" and i gave up after the brothel because i was so sick of navigating the city in the same exact ways over and over again
i remember getting lost in the city for like half an hour because the map doesnt mark where the level transitions were between districts like in thief 3 and everything looked the goddamn same so i wandered around in circles
maybe im bad at games but if you're gonna give people a map like that you have no excuse for it being worse than the crudely drawn maps from before that actually told me where things were
[editline]9th May 2014[/editline]
[t]http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/469803097773567667/7E163E219FD0880908C8E3B7544802ADB5753213/[/t]
this corner is the bane of my existence
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44767975]if the tutorial teaches you to be lazy and expect the answer to just be given to you then its not a good tutorial
(unless the game will always give you the answer easily)[/QUOTE]
it teaches you to expect to find the answers in notes in the environment by exploring. i mean come on how many notes in thief 1 and 2 were like "hey dude there's a secret fucking lever right here" or "theres a man here that carries the key to the door" or "here are the detailed instructions for how to open the bank vault." give them a break. i love thief 1 and 2 but they're both pretty guilty of these crimes too.
i mean you can straight up buy the solutions to puzzles at the beginning of each mission in those games
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44767975]if the tutorial teaches you to be lazy and expect the answer to just be given to you then its not a good tutorial
(unless the game will always give you the answer easily)[/QUOTE]
It teaches the player that notes will hold clues to the combinations. Of course it's going to be fucking easy, it's the first one. You're acting like the note was blank except the words "Safe combination: 739"
I would like to see most of the people who actually enjoy the puzzle solving and cognitive function required for the new Thief play games like Myst or Riven. They wouldn't last 10 seconds.
Seriously, there's a piece of information you need in Riven which is required to access these mysterious spinning domes located around the game world. The information in question is a string of five symbols, which are generated at random at the start of the game, and they are written down in a notebook chock full of information that may or may not be relevant. Each symbol represents a number, and you can figure out what the first 10 symbols of this hieroglyhphic number system are supposed to be with a little thing you can interact with at a pretty early stage of the game. From there you have to figure out how to get past the number 10, and do it right, since the five symbol code almost always has symbols that represent numbers higher than 10.
Fuck, we need more games that do stuff like this.
This guy goes pretty in-depth on Thief. He might come off as a bit nitpicky to some but he makes good points.
[video=youtube;s510WoJUYwA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s510WoJUYwA[/video]
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