Brexit: Negotiations hit deadlock in fifth round of talks
33 replies, posted
[QUOTE]Brexit negotiations have reached a "disturbing deadlock" over the question of Britain's divorce bill, the European Commission's chief negotiator has said. Michel Barnier said there would be no "concessions" in talks, which he said had completely ground to a halt on the question of post-Brexit payments. Speaking to journalists at the end of the fifth round of talks on Brussels Mr Barnier said the [B]lack of progress on the divorce bill has become so acute that officials did not even sit down to full discussions about it during this week's round[/B]. Both sides have also given up on the UK making "sufficient progress" to move to trade talks by the European Council summit in October, with Mr Barnier suggesting the milestone could be reached by December with constructive effort on both sides. The chief negotiator added: "We are not asking the British to make concessions. The agreement we are working on will not be built on concessions. There’s no question of making concessions on citizens' rights, there’s no question of making concessions on the peace process in Ireland, and as regards to the financial settlement, there’s no question of making concessions on thousands of projects throughout Europe."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On the British side, Brexit Secretary David Davis struck a more optimistic tone – but argued that the European Council needed to broaden Mr Barnier's mandate – set by member states – to help make progress. British officials have previously characterised the mandate as overly restrictive and blamed it for slower-than-expected progress in talks. Some eurosceptic MPs have said they hope Angela Merkel's re-election in Germany will lead to pressure to change the mandate at member-state level, but there is as yet no evidence that this idea is grounded in reality.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-michel-barnier-disturbing-deadlock-david-davis-brussels-latest-a7996326.html"]The Independent[/URL]
[URL="https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/12/brexit-talks-at-disturbing-deadlock-over-divorce-bill-says-eu-negotiator"]The Guardian[/URL]
The Tories are hell-bent on getting a ~nice juicy trade deal~ squared away before [del]Brexit kicks in[/del] the next election while the EU wants to ratify everything else beforehand.
I think a no-deal situation is becoming more and more likely.
Almost sounds like it was a shit idea to leave the EU huh?
Glad to see the EU sticking to their guns instead of bending over to give cunts what they want.
Why are we even acting like we have room to negotiate? Leaving the EU means leaving behind all the benefits lol what did they think would happen?
How the fuck did idiocy gain such a strong foothold in the world these past few years?! Not that there weren't idiots before, but it seems like it's kicked up more than a few notches.
Most people that support leaving support the idea of just walking away without a deal because they literally have no idea how any of this shit works.
They think the EU is just some bank account that we send money to for no reason. They have no deeper understanding of the organisation or what it does.
And now those people are influencing the Tory party as they go into our negotiations. Things are fucked.
Shit, people are calling for Phillip Hammond and David Davis to go to jail for DARING to show even a shred of negativity surrounding this shitfire that is brexit.
LOCK UP REMOANERS BREXIT BREXIT BREXIT
[QUOTE=torres;52773603]How the fuck did idiocy gain such a strong foothold in the world these past few years?! Not that there weren't idiots before, but it seems like it's kicked up more than a few notches.[/QUOTE]
People getting comfy and taking democracy for granted.
"its their fault" says the negotiators who aren't really in any position to negotiate.
News just in: grass is green.
This was never going to be a simple process.
EU throwing a fit like a baby throwing toys out of it's pram as usual, even though their house of cards are about to collapse any moment.
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;52773984]their house of cards are about to collapse any moment.[/QUOTE]
This is as much of a meme as "Nintendo is going bankrupt" is. This ignorant variation of a sentence has been said so many times over the last decade.
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;52773984]EU throwing a fit like a baby throwing toys out of it's pram as usual, even though their house of cards are about to collapse any moment.[/QUOTE]
Had to check to make sure I hadn't wandered into a comment thread on the Daily Mail website for a second there.
I just want out of this crazy train. The only BREXIT I want now, is my exit from Britain.
[QUOTE=RainbowStalin;52774037]Had to check to make sure I hadn't wandered into a comment thread on the Daily Mail website for a second there.[/QUOTE]
There are still some people who are convinced that the British Empire is just dormant, and that this will somehow revive it. Absolute madmen, I tell you.
What did people honestly expect, it won't ever move past this point without concessions from the EU. You can't expect the UK to pay into the budget and receive nothing in return.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52774063]What did people honestly expect, it won't ever move past this point without concessions from the EU. You can't expect the UK to pay into the budget and receive nothing in return.[/QUOTE]
Why should the EU budge? It's the UK that decided to leave, not the other way around.
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52774070]Why should the EU budge? It's the UK that decided to leave, not the other way around.[/QUOTE]
They don't have to, it just leads to hard Brexit and both sides suffer. It is pretty clear from those articles the EU needs the budgetary contributions from the UK, but is unwilling to give anything in return, which is why the UK is saying that the EU needs to expand its mandate as the negotiator is probably not authorised to talk about transitional or trade deals.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52774063]What did people honestly expect, it won't ever move past this point without concessions from the EU. You can't expect the UK to pay into the budget and receive nothing in return.[/QUOTE]
Except we do receive things in return, but people here have been convinced that the EU is a modern Nazi Empire and now are frothing at the mouth with hatred and disgust for an organisation they know nothing about other than what read in the jizzrags that are our newspapers.
They ask us to pay back what we owe before we leave, half the government shit their pants and declare there won't be a leaving fee like we can just walk away for free.
[editline]12th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52774093]They don't have to, it just leads to hard Brexit and both sides suffer. It is pretty clear from those articles the EU needs the budgetary contributions from the UK, but is unwilling to give anything in return, which is why the UK is saying that the EU needs to expand its mandate as the negotiator is probably not authorised to talk about transitional or trade deals.[/QUOTE]
Why should they give us anything, we chose to quit but we don't want to pay what we owe. The government is torn between people that understand that and rabid table thumpers that are two steps away from flying bombers over Brussels.
At what point will they acknowledge that the day our EU membership lapses without a replacement arrangement for trade and immigration (including existing EU expats who will most likely be technical illegals), the UK economy collapses including, crucially, the infrastructure supporting our public services? That is, total functional failure of health, fire, social security, [i]the fucking police[/i]. We'd be thundering towards a failed state at a rate which would make the late 80s Soviet Union look kinda peachy. How the hell could anyone be this irresponsible and ignorant of reality and the dangers of their actions?
Colour me surprised.
We have who is probably the least popular Prime Minister in decades attempting to lead a party that is split on Brexit which barely half the country voted for without making any plans before starting the process to leave.
Fuck me.
[QUOTE=Zeemlapje;52773984]EU throwing a fit like a baby throwing toys out of it's pram as usual, even though their house of cards are about to collapse any moment.[/QUOTE]
I still hold out hope that the EU could be reformed one day, but the way things are right now, it's more likely that that stagnant and lying clique in Brussels rather sees the entire ''European project'' sink instead of giving up the positions of power they have now, even though it is becoming blatantly oblivious that the EU leadership is turning into a retirement job for politicians who followed up the EU's party line to the letter when those politicians were in power in their own countries. I wouldn't be surprised at all if politicians of our new cabinet get a cosy EU job afterwards, especially after axing referendums in our country. Can't have the people hold direct votes on important matters, yet we are supposed to follow up whatever a bunch of wealthy, out-of-touch bureaucrats in their ivory tower in Brussels say despite us not even getting a single say in those people getting those positions in the EU. Bunch of fucking fraudsters.
[QUOTE=Jordax;52774242]I still hold out hope that the EU could be reformed one day, but the way things are right now, it's more likely that that stagnant and lying clique in Brussels rather sees the entire ''European project'' sink instead of giving up the positions of power they have now, even though it is becoming blatantly oblivious that the EU leadership is turning into a retirement job for politicians who followed up the EU's party line to the letter when those politicians were in power in their own countries. I wouldn't be surprised at all if politicians of our new cabinet get a cosy EU job afterwards, especially after axing referendums in our country. Can't have the people hold direct votes on important matters, yet we are supposed to follow up whatever a bunch of wealthy, out-of-touch bureaucrats in their ivory tower in Brussels say despite us not even getting a single say in those people getting those positions in the EU. Bunch of fucking fraudsters.[/QUOTE]
The EU is by no means perfect, but seriously, stop trying to make it seem like the EU forced the UK into leaving. They didn't, it was entirely of the UK's own volition to leave the union. Ironically, if anything, with the UK leaving, the EU is likely to see major changes over the next few years, exactly to avoid having another member state leave again.
As for any British politicians getting a job in the EU, fat chance. They just left. Why would the EU employ them in a powerful position?
[QUOTE=Spetsnaz95;52774280]The EU is by no means perfect, but seriously, stop trying to make it seem like the EU forced the UK into leaving. They didn't, it was entirely of the UK's own volition to leave the union. Ironically, if anything, with the UK leaving, the EU is likely to see major changes over the next few years, exactly to avoid having another member state leave again.
As for any British politicians getting a job in the EU, fat chance. They just left. Why would the EU employ them in a powerful position?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, UK's gonna be out with a harsh break-up, that's something that will happen, yet I totally see why countries would want to leave the EU. And I get the feeling that the EU's future actions to attempt to prevent another Brexit will in fact, cause more and more people to want to leave the EU, given how their solutions seems to take even bigger shits on the democracies and sovereignty of European countries while trying to push that borders are a bad thing somehow. I trust shady used car salesmen more with not screwing me over than EU honchos like Juncker, Timmermans, and Verhofstadt. I can totally see why the Visegrad Group is against the idea of a centralised EU Army, the last time they were part of a Bloc with a centralised army, it went really, really badly for people who wanted more democracy to return to their countries.
[QUOTE=Jordax;52774301]Yeah, UK's gonna be out with a harsh break-up, that's something that will happen, yet I totally see why countries would want to leave the EU. And I get the feeling that the EU's future actions to attempt to prevent another Brexit will in fact, cause more and more people to want to leave the EU, given how their solutions seems to take even bigger shits on the democracies and sovereignty of European countries while trying to push that borders are a bad thing somehow. I trust shady used car salesmen more with not screwing me over than EU honchos like Juncker, Timmermans, and Verhofstadt. I can totally see why the Visegrad Group is against the idea of a centralised EU Army, the last time they were part of a Bloc with a centralised army, it went really, really badly for people who wanted more democracy to return to their countries.[/QUOTE]
Are you seriously comparing the EU to the Soviet Union? Get over yourself. The EU isn't going to destroy any democracies. If anything, the EU is attempting to keep democracy alive: look at Poland whose current government is trying to blur the line between the different branches of the government itself. The EU has sharply criticised them.
As for the EU shitting on countries, that is objectively false. Any EU member can object to resolutions and have veto power. [URL="https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-uk-influence/"]The UK has voted 'for' the vast, [I]vast[/I] majority of EU measures[/URL]. Like I already said, the EU is far from perfect, but neither is anywhere near the boogey-man level that so many people try to make it out to be.
I'm going to laugh if at some point someone with the power to do so on Downing Street hits their head and suddenly goes 'HEy uhh, look, can we just burn the referendum and pretend it was a fever dream?'.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52774093]They don't have to, it just leads to hard Brexit and both sides suffer. It is pretty clear from those articles the EU needs the budgetary contributions from the UK, but is unwilling to give anything in return, which is why the UK is saying that the EU needs to expand its mandate as the negotiator is probably not authorised to talk about transitional or trade deals.[/QUOTE]
"Both sides suffer in a hard brexit" is an insufferable meme. No, the UK will suffer, the EU will be minorly thrown off for a bit whilst they try and wrangle the money we will owe them out of us, and restructure a few things now that we aren't veto-ing everything. We contribute like £8.6bn net to the EU, which sounds like a lot but the EU is operating on a budget of like €129bn, we pay like 10% of the total after our massive discount is applied, it's not a massive impact after a bit of restructuring. There'll be some infighting whilst shit gets worked out but in the end the EU isn't going to collapse.
The UK barely has the funds to keep critical social services like the NHS running smoothly right now thanks to the Tories, without the extra funding we usually get back from the EU that is dedicated to things like research, the farming industry and cultural sites I honestly don't see how we're going to become "the best" at anything. The Tories sure as shit aren't going to start splashing the cash on science or providing reasonable subsidies for farmers. And on top of that, we're going to need new trade deals which either means staying in the EEA and following the EU rules to ensure we have free trade with our neighbours, somehow negotiating with the EU for a different deal which means trade tariffs, or trading with other countries which means trade tarrifs and increased shipping and processing fees. All of those fees are going to be passed on to the consumer, fucking everyone but the most well off over.
Brexit was a fucking terrible idea and I honestly don't understand how you can be so deluded as to think otherwise.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52774456]"Both sides suffer in a hard brexit" is an insufferable meme. No, the UK will suffer, the EU will be minorly thrown off for a bit whilst they try and wrangle the money we will owe them out of us, and restructure a few things now that we aren't veto-ing everything. We contribute like £8.6bn net to the EU, which sounds like a lot but the EU is operating on a budget of like €129bn, we pay like 10% of the total after our massive discount is applied, it's not a massive impact after a bit of restructuring. There'll be some infighting whilst shit gets worked out but in the end the EU isn't going to collapse.
The UK barely has the funds to keep critical social services like the NHS running smoothly right now thanks to the Tories, without the extra funding we usually get back from the EU that is dedicated to things like research, the farming industry and cultural sites I honestly don't see how we're going to become "the best" at anything. The Tories sure as shit aren't going to start splashing the cash on science or providing reasonable subsidies for farmers. And on top of that, we're going to need new trade deals which either means staying in the EEA and following the EU rules to ensure we have free trade with our neighbours, somehow negotiating with the EU for a different deal which means trade tariffs, or trading with other countries which means trade tarrifs and increased shipping and processing fees. All of those fees are going to be passed on to the consumer, fucking everyone but the most well off over.
Brexit was a fucking terrible idea and I honestly don't understand how you can be so deluded as to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget the possibility that, if there's no deal, all flights both into and from the UK could be grounded as soon as Article 50 times out, because all our flight arrangements are through the EU and there's no WTO fallback. Probably won't happen, of course, but even the Tories have admitted it could happen.
[QUOTE=hexpunK;52774456]"Both sides suffer in a hard brexit" is an insufferable meme. No, the UK will suffer, the EU will be minorly thrown off for a bit whilst they try and wrangle the money we will owe them out of us, and restructure a few things now that we aren't veto-ing everything. We contribute like £8.6bn net to the EU, which sounds like a lot but the EU is operating on a budget of like €129bn, we pay like 10% of the total after our massive discount is applied, it's not a massive impact after a bit of restructuring. There'll be some infighting whilst shit gets worked out but in the end the EU isn't going to collapse.
The UK barely has the funds to keep critical social services like the NHS running smoothly right now thanks to the Tories, without the extra funding we usually get back from the EU that is dedicated to things like research, the farming industry and cultural sites I honestly don't see how we're going to become "the best" at anything. The Tories sure as shit aren't going to start splashing the cash on science or providing reasonable subsidies for farmers. And on top of that, we're going to need new trade deals which either means staying in the EEA and following the EU rules to ensure we have free trade with our neighbours, somehow negotiating with the EU for a different deal which means trade tariffs, or trading with other countries which means trade tarrifs and increased shipping and processing fees. All of those fees are going to be passed on to the consumer, fucking everyone but the most well off over.
Brexit was a fucking terrible idea and I honestly don't understand how you can be so deluded as to think otherwise.[/QUOTE]
Laws and buildings don't suffer, individual countries do.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52774764]Laws and buildings don't suffer, individual countries do.[/QUOTE]
Individual; countries economically benefit from EU, as brexit demonstrate for britain.
[QUOTE=Boilrig;52774764]Laws and buildings don't suffer, individual countries do.[/QUOTE]
Individual countries like the uk?
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