[QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.htxt.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/MSFT_logo_png-658x370.png[/IMG]
Today, we are proud to announce that Microsoft has acquired Havok, the leading provider of 3D physics, from Intel.
As we welcome Havok to the Microsoft family, we will continue to work with developers to create great games experiences, and continue to license Havok’s development tools to third party partners. We believe that Havok is a fantastic addition to Microsoft’s existing tools and platform components for developers, including DirectX 12, Visual Studio, and Microsoft Azure.
Havok is a fantastic technology supplier in the games industry and the leading real time physics creator. We saw an opportunity to partner together to deliver great experiences for our fans. Throughout the company’s history, they’ve partnered with Activision, EA, Ubisoft, Nintendo, Sony and many others to create more than 600 games including Halo, Assassin’s Creed, Call of Duty, Destiny, Dark Souls and The Elder Scrolls.
Microsoft’s acquisition of Havok continues our tradition of empowering developers by providing them with the tools to unleash their creativity to the world. We will continue to innovate for the benefit of development partners. Part of this innovation will include building the most complete cloud service, which we’ve just started to show through games like “Crackdown 3.”
Havok shares Microsoft’s vision for empowering people to create worlds and experiences that have never been seen before, and we look forward to sharing more of this vision in the near future.
[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.havok.com/havok-to-join-microsoft/"]via Havok[/URL]
So basically Microsoft now owns one of the most popular physics engines in industry.
pretty sure this was posted quite a while back
So does this mean the engine is exclusive to Microsoft now, or are other companies still allowed to use it if they want?
[editline]5th November 2015[/editline]
By other companies I mean Nintendo and Sony in particular.
I didn't even know Intel owned Havok.
[QUOTE]As we welcome Havok to the Microsoft family, we will continue to work with developers to create great games experiences, and continue to license Havok’s development tools to third party partners. [/QUOTE]
and tbh if microsoft decided to tell companies they didn't like that they couldn't use it we'd probably see a good alternative pop up since havok is used so often
[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;49052378]So does this mean the engine is exclusive to Microsoft now, or are other companies still allowed to use it if they want?[/QUOTE]
They say nothing is going to be changed in terms of licensing to third-party developers.
I bet MS will sell it with a huge discount (or even give out for free) to devs who are working on xbox-exclusives.
I guess this is one of the reasons Valve is trying to develop one of their own proprietary physics engine.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;49052388]and tbh if microsoft decided to tell companies they didn't like that they couldn't use it we'd probably see a good alternative pop up since havok is used so often[/QUOTE]
There's bullet already which is better than Havok at some things IIRC
Bullet's a loooooot better than Havok at a lot of things.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;49052388]and tbh if microsoft decided to tell companies they didn't like that they couldn't use it we'd probably see a good alternative pop up since havok is used so often[/QUOTE]
Havok has been dying over the last few years, PhysX is used most commonly on all platforms.
Major engines use PhysX as their default physics engine, both Unreal Engine 3/4 and Unity.
Havok was used for 50 games in 2012, but 25 games in 2013+2014+2015 and indicating an increased decline.
Microsoft has had a long working relationship with the Havok guys, and this really seems like an acquirement they made to keep the company alive and secure their investment in them (also it probably din't cost them jack shit)
The Havok family of products has a lot of features that Bullet aren't even planning as far as I know - Cloth physics, etc.
[QUOTE=Cold;49052541]Havok has been dying over the last few years, PhysX is used most commonly on all platforms.
Major engines use PhysX as their default physics engine, both Unreal Engine 3/4 and Unity.
PhysX was used for 50 games in 2012, but 25 games in 2013+2014+2015 and indicating an increased decline.
Microsoft has had a long working relationship with the Havok guys, and this really seems like an acquirement they made to keep the company alive and secure their investment in them (also it probably din't cost them jack shit)[/QUOTE]
Do you mean Havok has been seeing the decline?
[QUOTE=ace13;49052551]The Havok family of products has a lot of features that Bullet aren't even planning as far as I know - Cloth physics, etc.[/QUOTE]
Bullet has had cloth physics and per-vertex deformation/collision for over a year.
[QUOTE=27X;49052618]Bullet has had cloth physics and per-vertex deformation/collision for over a year.[/QUOTE]
To bad none of that works with threading, or in combination with various other features, or can be considered stable in any way what so-ever.
Works just fine threaded, and also is quite stable running on AMD/OCL2.
nVidia/Intel works considerably less well on 1.3, but is still quite stable, so I haven't faintest what you're on about.
The only real issues currently are memory/injection/allocation issues, and most of that will end when DX9 stops being a primary platform.
[QUOTE=27X;49052669]Works just fine threaded, and also is quite stable running on AMD/OCL2.
nVidia/Intel works considerably less well on 1.3, but is still quite stable, so I haven't faintest what you're on about.
The only real issues currently are memory/injection/allocation issues, and most of that will end when DX9 stops being a primary platform.[/QUOTE]
OpenCL is only rigid body and only in unreleased 3.0, threading in 2.x was removed and before that was a hack job for a ps3 title, non default and only for rigid bodies. Multithreading in 3.0 isn't available either.
2.0 threading is still quite available, if you're just randomly applying every git update, I have no idea what to tell you, that's simply one of the issues with using opensauce solutions; I know for a fact several chinese and korean companies are using it instead of havok for their specific games.
:shrug:
Half the feature set of things it supported in 2.x is bloat, use-case specific solutions that weren't implemented beyond the examples they where used in, completely separated from other code.
It supported loads of things like this, fluids, ragdols, factures, GPU acceleration, they where things some companies or people made and shared, and then where never maintained or tested outside of their specific usecase.
Its shitty comparison to look at a bunch of experiments put them all on one pile and then compare them to a full fetched product, where everything works out of the box and is extensively tested.
Some small companies and other software uses bullet because its cheap and opensource. The only big companies that uses it that i am aware of is Rockstar who forked it years ago, and is willing to invest tens of thousands of hours into it themselves.
(Although there are probably some companies who use/forked it without giving credit and people don't notice)
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;49052388]and tbh if microsoft decided to tell companies they didn't like that they couldn't use it we'd probably see a good alternative pop up since havok is used so often[/QUOTE]
Probably see PhysX start getting even more popular
[QUOTE=Megalan;49052361]So basically Microsoft now owns one of the most popular physics engines in industry.[/QUOTE]
Havok hasn't really been doing well as of late, now that unreal and unity both use PhysX. I can't think of any titles in recent years that have used it, at least that I've heard of.
[QUOTE=Elspin;49055999]Havok hasn't really been doing well as of late, now that unreal and unity both use PhysX. I can't think of any titles in recent years that have used it, at least that I've heard of.[/QUOTE]
Half li-
:cry:
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;49052388]and tbh if microsoft decided to tell companies they didn't like that they couldn't use it we'd probably see a good alternative pop up since havok is used so often[/QUOTE]
microsoft also controls directx and hasn't exactly used it for nefarious purposes either
[QUOTE=Elspin;49055999]Havok hasn't really been doing well as of late, now that unreal and unity both use PhysX. I can't think of any titles in recent years that have used it, at least that I've heard of.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://www.havok.com/showcase/"]I bet you've heard about those games[/URL], basically the only serious reason why havok is not used in UE and unity is because it's not free.
[QUOTE=ClauAmericano;49052378]So does this mean the engine is exclusive to Microsoft now, or are other companies still allowed to use it if they want?
[editline]5th November 2015[/editline]
By other companies I mean Nintendo and Sony in particular.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure if Nintendo owned licenses to Havok from before, they're probably still good but It might be hard for them to get new licenses. But I don't think Nintendo uses 3rd party engines...
I don't get why people think just cause havok is at a decline it won't get better. Microsoft clearly plans on funneling funds into Havok, these kinds of buyouts don't happen 'just cause'.
[editline]5th November 2015[/editline]
New versions of Havok will probably be incredibily beefed up tbh
[QUOTE=No Party Hats;49057053]I don't get why people think just cause havok is at a decline it won't get better. Microsoft clearly plans on funneling funds into Havok, these kinds of buyouts don't happen 'just cause'.
[editline]5th November 2015[/editline]
New versions of Havok will probably be incredibily beefed up tbh[/QUOTE]
They're going to use it to incentivise making Xbone exclusives. They appear to be offering cheaper or free Azure compute time to studios like Respawn, right now it's being used for Dedicated servers, but MS is inevitably going to try and offload physics performance into the cloud, and buying Havok was the first step.
Their first testbed is Crackdown 3:
[media]https://youtu.be/EWANLy9TjRc[/media]
[QUOTE=proboardslol;49056973]I'm sure if Nintendo owned licenses to Havok from before, they're probably still good but It might be hard for them to get new licenses. But I don't think Nintendo uses 3rd party engines...[/QUOTE]
Both Smash Bros Brawl and 4 use the Havok engine.
Microsoft bought it, Intel already knows Havok is dying.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49056468]microsoft also controls directx and hasn't exactly used it for nefarious purposes either[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you mean with nefarious. I mean, they did push it to increase monopoly even more, locking people to that specific platform. And they've done so pretty well, I'd say, given that developers can't easily port a DX game from a Microsoft platform to any other platform out there.
[QUOTE=Megalan;49056662][URL="http://www.havok.com/showcase/"]I bet you've heard about those games[/URL], basically the only serious reason why havok is not used in UE and unity is because it's not free.[/QUOTE]
What I meant was that I didn't hear they were using Havok, not that I hadn't heard of the games that are using it. Don't really know if it's a great idea to advertise that AC: Unity used Havok but it's certainly a famous game.
I'm not super convinced Havok is the "overall better" option anyhow, PhysX seemed way more on top of brand new areas of simulation in the early days and it even if it is nvidia exclusive hardware acceleration is really cool.
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