This thread has probably been done before, but I've never seen one so here goes nothing.
Nostradamus was considered by some to have physic visions. Most others call him a fraud that was simply vague with his predictions. Me? I like to consider him an extremely talented person who simply found a way to predict the future based on past events or maybe even the stars. He studied astrology and other "occult" sciences. The way I see it, if you don't believe in the Nostradamus Effect, you are in denial. Sure, some of Nostradamus' predictions never came true. But does this mean that the ones that did come true are just coincidence? I believe not. Here are some of the most famous predictions Nostradamus made:
1. "From the enslaved populace, songs,
Chants and demands
While princes and lords are held captive in prisons.
These will in the future by headless idiots
Be received as divine prayers" - This quote is a reference to the French Revolution.
2. "In the City of God there will be a great thunder,
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos,
while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb",
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" - This quote references 9/11.
3. Out of the deepest part of the west of Europe,
From poor people a young child shall be born,
Who with his tongue shall seduce many people,
His fame shall increase in the Eastern Kingdom.
He shall come to tyrannize the land.
He shall raise up a hatred that had long been dormant.
The child of Germany observes no law.
Cries, and tears, fire, blood, and battle.
A captain of Germany shall come to yield himself by false hope,
So that his revolt shall cause great bloodshed.
Beasts wild with hunger will cross the rivers
The greater part of the battlefield will be against Hister.
Near the Rhine from the Austrian mountains
Will be born a great man of the people, come too late.
A man who will defend Poland and Hungary
And whose fate will never be certain. - This text is a reference to Hitler and World War 2.
So, what are your views on this? I realize there are more predictions, but I feel these are the best. Also, if some of these quotes are wrong, let me know and I'll change them.
Whilst it does seem impressivly similair to WW2, I'd still place it as a coincidence due to how things can be interpreted into different meanings.
His predictions are very vague, and with ~500 years to apply his predictions to major events a handful of them are going to be applicable.
Those predictions are fucking stupid. Not only is the second one, the one attributed to 9/11, fake, but it was crafted by a university student to show how easy it is to make something sound like a prophecy of something important using abstract imagery.
[editline]19th December 2011[/editline]
And Hitler was born 300 kilometers from the Rhine, in a mountain less region of Austria, but okay!
Alot of them are vague and they could have fit into any other figure in his own time.
[QUOTE=Chrille;33797246]Those predictions are fucking stupid. Not only is the second one, the one attributed to 9/11, fake, but it was crafted by a university student to show how easy it is to make something sound like a prophecy of something important using abstract imagery.
[editline]19th December 2011[/editline]
And Hitler was born 300 kilometers from the Rhine, in a mountain less region of Austria, but okay![/QUOTE]
Do you have any proof as to how the 9/11 prediction is fake? If it's so fake, then why is it featured on documentaries and such? I don't think national television stations like National Geographic, Discovery, etc. would mention something like that if it wasn't genuine. On top of all that, I think we can both agree that even if the mentioned prediction wasn't genuine, there was some sort of prediction about 9/11 Nostradamus made.
On another note, you failed to read the rest of the prediction about Hitler and World War 2. Sure, some of it is bullshit, but it doesn't mean the rest of it is.
[editline]19th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Yumyumbublegum;33797234]His predictions are very vague, and with ~500 years to apply his predictions to major events a handful of them are going to be applicable.[/QUOTE]
His predictions are vague, I'll admit that. But with this being said, why did so many of them come true? I mean, it would be one thing if only two or three actually happened. But it's another thing to have several of them happen.
[QUOTE=deaded38;33799247]Do you have any proof as to how the 9/11 prediction is fake? If it's so fake, then why is it featured on documentaries and such? I don't think national television stations like National Geographic, Discovery, etc. would mention something like that if it wasn't genuine. On top of all that, I think we can both agree that even if the mentioned prediction wasn't genuine, there was some sort of prediction about 9/11 Nostradamus made.
On another note, you failed to read the rest of the prediction about Hitler and World War 2. Sure, some of it is bullshit, but it doesn't mean the rest of it is.
[editline]19th December 2011[/editline]
His predictions are vague, I'll admit that. But with this being said, why did so many of them come true? I mean, it would be one thing if only two or three actually happened. But it's another thing to have several of them happen.[/QUOTE]
Is this a joke?
[editline]19th December 2011[/editline]
Explain to me how "two brothers" and "city of god" sounds even remotely like 9/11. Tons of other major cities had terrorist attacks, or were burning for one reason or another. There's a lot of symbolism in two brothers. And I'm pretty sure the dude was right, that prediction wasn't even made by Nostradamus.
New York is definitely not the City of God, but I think the Hitler one seems plausible.
Uhm, but why does he have to talk in riddles, can't he just say what he saw or whatever??
[QUOTE=Arachnidus;33799311]Is this a joke?
[editline]19th December 2011[/editline]
Explain to me how "two brothers" and "city of god" sounds even remotely like 9/11. Tons of other major cities had terrorist attacks, or were burning for one reason or another. There's a lot of symbolism in two brothers. And I'm pretty sure the dude was right, that prediction wasn't even made by Nostradamus.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should read the whole prediction instead of pointing out part of it. And you still haven't said why there would be several documentaries about the 9/11 prediction if it was just a fraud.
[QUOTE=deaded38;33799516]Maybe you should read the whole prediction instead of pointing out part of it. And you still haven't said why there would be several documentaries about the 9/11 prediction if it was just a fraud.[/QUOTE]
Allow me to give five reasons;
1) People blatantly buy into things if it's on the Discovery Channel (just like with the History Channel, it's about science so it [I]must[/I] be true!), so making those shows to get advertising funds works. People will watch it.
2) Because it's still part of history, he was regarded by a group as a prophet, some people find it interesting. Doesn't mean it's right.
3) Adding on to 1, 9/11 just happened 10 years ago. America is still bleeding about it and will be for many, many years to come. If there's any connection to it, some type of divine symbolism, there will always be a group to watch it.
4) Just because it's on TV doesn't mean it's real (see: around 90% of Fox News reports).
5) None of those shows say he is a prophet. They present the case made by a group of people, give supporting evidence for both sides of the argument, explain the phenomenon and allow the viewer to decide.
[QUOTE=deaded38;33799516]Maybe you should read the whole prediction instead of pointing out part of it. And you still haven't said why there would be several documentaries about the 9/11 prediction if it was just a fraud.[/QUOTE]
I guess that since the History Channel has done several documentaries on aliens building the pyramids, it must be true.
[url]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nostradamus.asp[/url]
Any of those predictions can apply to anything. It's just the history and discovery channel with their stupid conspiracy shows that apply his predictions to recent events and only recent events.
2. "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, ([I]Ooh! Thunder! Because that doesn't happen often, right?! There's no such thing as volcanoes. Or gas pipe explosions. Or Earthquakes. [B]Or thunderstorms.[/B][/I])
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, ([I]Oh my gods! 1 and 2 World Trade were the [B]twin[/B] towers! This must be about them!)[/I]
while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" ([I]Okay, this one is close, but this can be said about a lot of things. Like, for example, the fall of the Soviet Union resulting in the creation of the Russian Federation. Or anything else were the country survives but in a radically different state.[/I])
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" ([I]Err. No. Lots of big cities burned, and there have been much, much bigger wars in the time between Nostradamus and the 9/11 attacks. Or even World War II and the attacks...like Korea and Vietnam, and that's just ones the US was actively involved in.[/I])
No. It's just a simple question of probability (actually, quite a complicated question of probability). Given enough time and events, something that sounds like what Nostradamus said can happen.
And his predictions are so vague, you can adapt them to a lot of things.
[QUOTE=rosthouse;33800248]No. It's just a simple question of probability (actually, quite a complicated question of probability). Given enough time and events, something that sounds like what Nostradamus said can happen.
And his predictions are so vague, you can adapt them to a lot of things.[/QUOTE]
So what you're saying is that he used past events to predict future events? If this is what you mean, then that's better than most of the people here saying that he didn't predict anything.
[QUOTE=deaded38;33800766]So what you're saying is that he used past events to predict future events? If this is what you mean, then that's better than most of the people here saying that he didn't predict anything.[/QUOTE]
We're not saying he didn't predict anything. We're just not saying he predicted specific events down to days (I don't mean to speak for everyone, and I don't, but I'm guessing this is so). I predict some time in the future, a volcano will erupt. Someone will die of the flu. I can make these assumptions because they've happened before, I have data to work with. Cities have burned down in the past. Wars have been fought. It's not hard to say they'll happen again in the future.
[QUOTE=Arachnidus;33800199]2. "In the City of God there will be a great thunder, ([I]Ooh! Thunder! Because that doesn't happen often, right?! There's no such thing as volcanoes. Or gas pipe explosions. Or Earthquakes. [B]Or thunderstorms.[/B][/I])
Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, ([I]Oh my gods! 1 and 2 World Trade were the [B]twin[/B] towers! This must be about them!)[/I]
while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb" ([I]Okay, this one is close, but this can be said about a lot of things. Like, for example, the fall of the Soviet Union resulting in the creation of the Russian Federation. Or anything else were the country survives but in a radically different state.[/I])
The third big war will begin when the big city is burning" ([I]Err. No. Lots of big cities burned, and there have been much, much bigger wars in the time between Nostradamus and the 9/11 attacks. Or even World War II and the attacks...like Korea and Vietnam, and that's just ones the US was actively involved in.[/I])[/QUOTE]
Yes, but when you put all of them in one prediction, then there is really only one answer - 9/11. You're acting like these are all separate predictions. And if you don't mean this, explain to me what event in history between the time of Nostradamus and 9/11 fits that exact prediction. Do this, and I will consider dropping the whole 9/11 thing.
[editline]19th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Chrille;33800169]I guess that since the History Channel has done several documentaries on aliens building the pyramids, it must be true.
[url]http://www.snopes.com/rumors/nostradamus.asp[/url][/QUOTE]
No, you're taking this to a much more extreme level. I never said that the History channel is saying the Nostradamus Effect is true. But when they give evidence to support it, they generally get actual evidence (like an artifact from back in his days) instead of just looking shit up on the internet and reading books from unreliable sources.
His predictions are so broad and vague to the point they can be referred to different situations.
The 9/11 prediction is the least accurate one out of the three.
[QUOTE=deaded38;33800849]Yes, but when you put all of them in one prediction, then there is really only one answer - 9/11. You're acting like these are all separate predictions. And if you don't mean this, explain to me what event in history between the time of Nostradamus and 9/11 fits that exact prediction. Do this, and I will consider dropping the whole 9/11 thing.
[/QUOTE]
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter]Because, by my definition, Charleston is the City of God, the explosions of Civil-War-Era artillery is great thunder, the political ramifications of the outbreak of the war bring the US down from its pedestal in the world view count as a great leader succumbing, and I think the Napoleonic Wars and the Opium Wars kinda round out the first two big wars.[/url]
See how things change with definition? Nostradamus was born in 1503. The world completely changes. Context is lost.
[QUOTE]More precisely, its attribution to Nostradamus is a hoax. The passage was lifted from a Web page (long since deleted from the server that originally hosted it) containing an essay written by college student Neil Marshall in 1996 entitled "Nostradamus: A Critical Analysis." In the essay itself, Marshall admits inventing the quatrain for the purpose of demonstrating — quite ironically, in light of the way it was subsequently misused — how a Nostradamus-like verse can be so cryptically couched as to lend itself to whatever interpretation one wishes to make.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/nostradamus_2.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=cricket50;33801369][url]http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/nostradamus_2.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
...and there you have it.
The passages seem a little too vague, so that they could be interpreted by anything.
Plus, 9/11 involved the world trade center, the pentagon, and another building which was not destroyed due to the plane being taken back from the passengers, which crashed in a field.
No, his predictions are vague and 90% of them were complete garbage. It's nonsensical mysticism, those who believe it also believe dumb shit like Astrology.
Astrology and occult "sciences" are full of shit. Nobody can predict the future, and your argument of "Well even though most of his predictions are bullshit, that doesn't mean ALL of them are!" no, it does. If you say 5 major things are going to happen and they don't, odds are you're full of shit.
Anyone can be like Nostradamus.
For example: I see a great fire glistening on the river Thames as a dark soot descends upon London and the tower of Parliament collapses.
Although it's not as vague as some of his bullshit, I doubt I'd be considered a future reading prophet if at sometime within the next thousand years London catches ablaze and Parliament is burned to the ground.
[QUOTE=yuki;33802460]No, his predictions are vague and 90% of them were complete garbage. It's nonsensical mysticism, those who believe it also believe dumb shit like Astrology.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't matter what percentage of them were garbage, he still predicted the other ten percent with that logic. And no, it's not "mysticism". Obviously if it was, none of it would have came true.
[QUOTE=deaded38;33802617]It doesn't matter what percentage of them were garbage, he still predicted the other ten percent with that logic. And no, it's not "mysticism". Obviously if it was, none of it would have came true.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it would have. It's called coincidence. He made a few guesses. People interpreted them as prophecies. We live in a world where probability states everything can and will happen at some point. Saying something will happen isn't wrong, but he definitely didn't go ahead and say "SOMEONE'S GONNA FLY A PLANE INTO THE WORLD TRADE CENTER" or "ADOLF HITLER WILL RAMPAGE ACROSS EUROPE". He made a prediction, that, possibly, at some point in the future, something might happen.
The predictions are too vague, they could be applied to nearly everything, without regard for what or when. In fact I'm going to make a prediction right here:
[I]Expelled from authority,
End met down an angry road,
Power is found with then owned[/I]
(I'm not a poet so don't criticise my rather poor "prophecy")
The thing is, this "prophecy" I made is just as vague (well, to be a fair a bit more vague) than Nostradamus' prophecies. You could apply it to the recent overthrow of Gaddafi in Libya, or you could apply it to a possible revolution 100 years in the future. When that revolution occurs (if it does), people could look at this "prophecy" and go "look at this! someone predicted the future!" although the same "prophecy" could be applied to numerous events throughout time, such as a revolution maybe 300 years in the future as well. Point is, this prophet is being incredibly vague and is getting unwarranted attention because of his prophecies.
[QUOTE=deaded38;33802617]It doesn't matter what percentage of them were garbage, he still predicted the other ten percent with that logic. And no, it's not "mysticism". Obviously if it was, none of it would have came true.[/QUOTE]
He wrote nearly a thousand of these vague predictions. Eventually hes going to get a handful right. He's a pretty shitty future teller if he only got 10 out of 1000 right. Oh wait, he's not a future teller.
[i]You're going to take a shit tomorrow/[/i]
Wow, I can do it to!
No, they are the ramblings of a superstitious and mad man.
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