Why politicians lie and why we want to believe them - Polidicks

[QUOTE]Washington (CNN) -- Wolf Blitzer and Donald Trump's heated showdown this week over claims of a conspiracy to conceal President Barack Obama's true birthplace was, at its core, an argument about lying. Trump and other "birthers" believe the president, mainstream media outlets, the courts and the state of Hawaii are all lying, conspiring in a cover-up that began with Obama's birth announcement in a Honolulu newspaper in 1961. Those who maintain the president was born in Hawaii -- and has produced an authentic birth certificate to prove it -- believe Trump and the other side are willfully ignoring the facts in front of them and spreading lies for political gain. "It's very complicated, the way we process information," said Ron Riggio, an organizational psychology professor at Claremont McKenna College speaking broadly about the nature of lying. "It's the politics of audacity. The more outrageous and audacious the lie is, the more people say 'that's got to be true because why would someone make something like that up?'" While many politicians are truthful, honest public servants, too many politicians and their surrogates often lie, and voters often let them get away with it, Riggio contends. In the world of politics, lies are that relative no one really likes but everyone reluctantly invites to Thanksgiving dinner. From Richard Nixon -- "I'm not a crook" -- to Bill Clinton -- "I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky" -- to Marion Barry -- "It's all made up... I don't know what happened" -- to John Edwards -- "The story is false... It's completely untrue, ridiculous" -- American politicians have had a history of political deception, or at least stretching the truth. In 2007, Edwards, who at the time was a leading candidate for president, lied about his mistress and baby when the National Enquirer caught him at the Beverly Hilton Hotel visiting the child. The jury in his conspiracy and illegal campaign contributions trial Thursday found Edwards not guilty on one of six counts. The judge declared a mistrial on the other five counts. And last year, disgraced congressman Anthony Weiner looked CNN's Wolf Blitzer in the eye and lied when confronted with evidence of illicit Twitter photos. He later admitted the deception and resigned from office. "From a leadership perspective, so often the lies politicians are involved in are part of leaving an impression about information," Riggio said. "So much of it is the little white lies that are part of the social fabric. But when it crosses the line that the public truly believes is important, then it becomes a big problem." Rep. Mike Coffman, R-Colorado, found himself straddling the line between deception, confusion and evasion after reports leaked that he questioned the president's citizenship at a recent fundraiser. "I don't know whether Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. I don't know that," Coffman reportedly said. "But I do know this, that in his heart, he's not an American. He's just not an American." The ensuing media storm over Coffman's comments forced the congressman to backpedal and issue a statement that he does believe Obama is an American citizen but that the president doesn't share the lawmaker's belief in "American exceptionalism." But Coffman's gaffe seems to fall more along the lines of what some behavioral experts call a dodge or an evade. "Most dodgers, they're not lying. They just create a false impression," said Michael Norton, an associate business professor at the Harvard Business School who studies how and why people lie. "Occasionally politicians get caught in a lie, but it's quite rare. If they are doing their jobs they don't lie, they just evade." The Pulitzer Prize-winning PolitiFact website has made its mark by grading the shades of accuracy in politicians' statements on the "Truth-O-Meter." "I think voters are well aware that politicians stretch the truth -- sometimes to the breaking point," said Bill Adair, editor of PolitiFact and Washington bureau chief of the Tampa Bay Times. "And I think voters are also savvy enough to realize there are shades of gray that turn a seemingly accurate statement into a half truth." However, unlike the days when webs of political deception were tougher to untangle, savvy voters now have more tools on hand. "What's different today is that there is so much information available to help people make sense of the political discourse and discern the difference between an exaggeration and a pants-on-fire lie," Adair said. When Gilberto Hinojosa, who was seeking the Texas Democratic Party chairmanship, declared "a large majority of the Republican Party believes that (Obama) is a Muslim and was born in a foreign country, was not born in the United States," at the Central Texas Democratic Forum last month, the would-be chairman rated a "false" on the Truth-O-Meter. Similarly, most claims about the president's birthplace as Kenya and the falsity of his Hawaiian birth certificate rate a flaming "Pants on Fire" on the Truth-O-Meter. Not that any of those ratings will convince Trump, those who agree with him or those who believe the president was born in America. And it doesn't matter how much or how hard either side defends their position, Norton said. "We're much more likely to notice evasive behavior with politicians we already disagree with," Norton said. "But we forget people in our party are doing the same thing."[/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/31/politics/why-politicians-lie/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5[/url]

People still think Obama wasn't born in the US? OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDD

[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;36184963]People still think Obama wasn't born in the US? OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDD[/QUOTE] Because Hawaii isn't part of North America :v:

Why do people even care if he was born somewhere else, as of my understanding, if you are an american citizen and have no citizenship in any other nation you may be president.

[QUOTE=Red scout?;36185020]Why do people even care if he was born somewhere else, as of my understanding, if you are an american citizen and have no citizenship in any other nation you may be president.[/QUOTE] You have to be US-born afaik, and that rule is so retarded

[QUOTE=Red scout?;36185020]Why do people even care if he was born somewhere else, as of my understanding, if you are an american citizen and have no citizenship in any other nation you may be president.[/QUOTE] The three requirements are You have to be born in the US or land owned by the US You have to of live in the US at lest 14 years You have to be 35 years old You have to meet all those requirements to run for president

[QUOTE=Kendra;36185073]You have to be US-born afaik, and that rule is so retarded[/QUOTE] Exactly. Either way they are doomed forever. Jokes aside, people want to believe the lies because they want change and think anyone that comes next has to be better than the last. Politicians lie because its easy to say things people want to hear to get ellected, and its not as easy to accomplish them. That goes for many reasons, mainly because there are assholes who don't want to give up their monthly Bentley and just hinder everything.

What about people who don't really give a shit about politics because the smashing majority of it is corruption?

[QUOTE=Die_Hard;36185096]The three requirements are You have to be born in the US or land owned by the US You have to of live in the US at lest 14 years You have to be 35 years old You have to meet all those requirements to run for president[/QUOTE] Anyone can run for president, but anyone can't just run for president.

Holy shit I forgot to vote for our next prime minister! Oh well, nothing of value was lost, still doomed.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;36185355]Political apathy is dangerously retarded. I hate people who "dont care about politics" even though our world is entirely dependent on them and if we all stopped caring we'd we neck deep in shit.[/QUOTE] IMO, caring about politics at this day and age is just a luxury. No matter what you do, caring or not caring wont make anything better. Any guy you pick is called "the death of your wallet"

[QUOTE=Kendra;36185073]You have to be US-born afaik, and that rule is so retarded[/QUOTE] Ah, alright. Thanks for correcting me.

[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;36184963]People still think Obama wasn't born in the US? OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDD[/QUOTE] I actually caught the Trump/Blitzer thing when it happened the other day. It would have been funny if it wasn't so sad/frustrating.

[QUOTE=Kendra;36185073]You have to be US-born afaik, and that rule is so retarded[/QUOTE] pretty much every country has a rule like that

Why do people not think Obama is American when he's the fucking president of the United States of America for how long now?

[QUOTE=garychencool;36185618]Why do people not think Obama is American when he's the fucking president of the United States of America for how long now?[/QUOTE] Almost 4 years, and about to be president for 4 more [sp]i know it was rhetorical but i wanted to answer anyway[/sp]

[QUOTE=garychencool;36185618]Why do people not think Obama is American when he's the fucking president of the United States of America for how long now?[/QUOTE] I don't think they believe the shit they're spewing. He's up for re-election, and the wealthy don't like his policies, so they need to spread FUD. He hasn't done anything wrong/stupid like Bush did, so they have to get him on a technicality, and they couldn't even find a real technicality, so they had to make up a technicality. People like Trump have something to gain by pushing Obama out of office.

[QUOTE=Kendra;36185073]You have to be US-born afaik, and that rule is so retarded[/QUOTE] It's not retarded, it's to keep spies and such from leading the country and destroying it. Instead, we get to do that with our natural-born leaders.

People more likely to believe something that may not be true, on the simple basis that it's what they want to believe? Well what do you know!

[quote]While many politicians are truthful, honest public servants, [/quote] Oh god, this is the funniest shit I've read in years. Every last one of them is a lying sack of shit. It's a requirement to get anywhere in politics, you simply cannot succeed by telling the truth when everyone else on the ballot is lying and shitslinging as hard as they possibly can.[QUOTE=Marbalo;36185355]Political apathy is dangerously retarded. I hate people who "dont care about politics" even though our world is entirely dependent on them and if we all stopped caring we'd we neck deep in shit.[/QUOTE] The left wants to bury us all in blue shit. The right wants to bury us all in red shit. Where's the fuckin' difference? We're buried in shit either way.

[QUOTE=TestECull;36185962]Oh god, this is the funniest shit I've read in years. Every last one of them is a lying sack of shit. It's a requirement to get anywhere in politics, you simply cannot succeed by telling the truth when everyone else on the ballot is lying and shitslinging as hard as they possibly can. [/QUOTE] Not really. I doubt you've taken part in local politics judging by that attitude.

[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;36184963]People still think Obama wasn't born in the US? OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOODDDDDDDDDDDDD[/QUOTE] Honestly, for the most part it seems the high-profile truthers are just lying to get attention, and the one's who really do believe it are just completely insane.

[QUOTE=Kendra;36185073]You have to be US-born afaik, and that rule is so retarded[/QUOTE] It's not really, it stops any foreign agents from potentially becoming president, regardless of how unlikely that is.

kinda like Stockholm syndrome MUST BE...... COERCED

[QUOTE=TestECull;36185962]The left wants to bury us all in blue shit. The right wants to bury us all in red shit. Where's the fuckin' difference? We're buried in shit either way.[/QUOTE] The blue shit smells better

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36186069]It's not really, it stops any foreign agents from potentially becoming president, regardless of how unlikely that is.[/QUOTE] That's completely ignoring the fact that many(if not most) "foreign agents" are US born.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36186220]That's completely ignoring the fact that many(if not most) "foreign agents" are US born.[/QUOTE] Well you can't stop them in all ways, but you can certainly stop them in some of the more obvious ways.

[QUOTE=Die_Hard;36185096]The three requirements are [b]You have to be born in the US or land owned by the US[/b] You have to of live in the US at lest 14 years You have to be 35 years old You have to meet all those requirements to run for president[/QUOTE] This bit is actually false, it says you have to be a "natural born citizen," which could mean being born in another country but to American parents. That's how McCain was eligible to run despite being born in Panama.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;36186250]Well you can't stop them in all ways, but you can certainly stop them in some of the more obvious ways.[/QUOTE] I don't think it really matters that much. "Foreign Agents" can still infiltrate our Congress and Judicial Branch. Also, to become president requires an obscene amount of time in politics to even get a shot at getting a shot at becoming a contender for a party. There are better ways for a country to infiltrate and collect intelligence in the US, namely by infiltrating our intelligence and law enforcement agencies. Trying to get the presidency seems like a waste of time and resources. [editline]3rd June 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=MBB;36186313]This bit is actually false, it says you have to be a "natural born citizen," which could mean being born in another country but to American parents. That's how McCain was eligible to run despite being born in Panama.[/QUOTE] Nope. McCain was born on land owned by the US, a military hospital on a military base in Panama. Therefore he is considered born in the US.

[QUOTE=yawmwen;36186346]Nope. McCain was born on land owned by the US, a military hospital on a military base in Panama. Therefore he is considered born in the US.[/QUOTE] Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure that the "natural-born citizen" requirement doesn't necessitate being born in the United States, but rather to be born with citizenship. This could involve being born in Europe to American parents that were on vacation.