Japan is now running out of workers as population ages and shrinks while economy declines - Polidicks

[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/XrfABFQ.jpg[/img_thumb] [i]Japan’s baby boomers have pushed the ratio of over-65s to record levels. Photograph: Koji Sasahara/AP[/i] [quote]Japan’s closed-door immigration policy is expected to come under scrutiny after census data showed that more than a quarter of its population is over 64, while the number of children aged under 14 is at a record low – trends that have caused alarm over the country’s economic fortunes. People aged 65 or over make up a record 26.7% of Japan’s population of 127 million, according 2015 census data released by the internal affairs ministry – an increase of 3.7 percentage points since the last survey was conducted in 2010. Government data shows the number of workers in Japan is projected to fall by 7.9 million, or 12.4%, to 55.61 million by 2030. Its overall population will drop to 86 million in 2060, with the proportion of people aged 65 or over reaching nearly 40% of the total. “The ratio of people aged 65 or older is the highest ever recorded,” a ministry official said, according to the Japan Times. “This is because many baby boomers have entered this age category over the past five years.” Attempts to raise the birthrate have proved unsuccessful, while policy makers are resistant to the idea of relaxing immigration laws.[/quote] [url]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/30/japan-census-over-65s-record-27-population-immigration[/url] [quote]The number of elderly people in Japan has increased, while the average family has shrunk in size, census data released Wednesday reveal. The number of elderly people aged 65 or older accounts for 26.7 percent of the 127.11 million total population, up 3.7 percentage points from five years ago, a summary report of the 2015 national census shows. Meanwhile, the size of the average family has continued to shrink, according to the figures. The 68-page report, conducted by the internal affairs ministry, also showed that the average number of household members fell from 2.82 in 1995 to 2.39 in 2015. Accordingly, single-person households have grown to occupy 32.5 percent of the total 51.88 million households, making it now the largest segment of the population, the report showed. As of Oct. 1, 2015, 1 in every 8 men aged 65 or older and 1 in every 5 women of the same age category live alone, the survey found. Meanwhile, about 1.69 million people live in welfare facilities for the elderly, representing a 40 percent surge from the previous census in 2012, the report said.[/quote] [url]http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/06/29/national/japan-census-report-shows-surge-elderly-population-many-living-alone/#.V3bOVLgrKhc[/url]

To think Humanity in some parts of the world is facing extinction.

Even if they changed their immigration policy for workers, I'd be interested to see if workplace culture in Japan would shift to a lot more western ideals too if they had a lot of foreigners coming in. since from what I've read it's very different.

[QUOTE=plokoon9619;50629654]To think Humanity in some parts of the world is facing extinction.[/QUOTE] The sort of demographic calamity Japan is in can't be reversed for years the way things are going, and even then it'll take a century or more to stabilize. It's had such an impact that there's actually way more jobs than jobseekers in Japan. Infrastructure is under the biggest stress since they barely hire enough people to build and maintain the roads, sanitation, electrical lines, telecoms, etc. And the more this shrinks the harder it will be to maintain it, especially in some more out of the way towns and cities (which have shrunk even more rapidly).

[QUOTE=KillRay;50629664]Even if they changed their immigration policy for workers, I'd be interested to see if workplace culture in Japan would shift to a lot more western ideals too if they had a lot of foreigners coming in. since from what I've read it's very different.[/QUOTE] It would, they have no choice long term.

So, why exactly is this happening?

So when is the best time for me to move to Japan and form my own gaijin bosozoku gang?

[QUOTE=Makzu;50629731]So, why exactly is this happening?[/QUOTE] Millennial's differing attitudes towards family I think. I'm going through some marital issues with my wife because she wants to move back to Japan and work for 10 years and not have any babies as of yet.

[QUOTE=Makzu;50629731]So, why exactly is this happening?[/QUOTE] Japanese people decided to stop having children more or less. Fewer of them marry or get into relationships, and of those reduced numbers even fewer have children. They typically delay having children until later in life too, and prefer smaller families (especially because raising a child is difficult and the Japanese government/workplaces aren't the most flexible when it comes to people and their children). Japanese people look down heavily on children born out of wedlock too, which is a partially contributing factor. A lot of social changes has produced a generally depressed attitude as well. A lot of people are reluctant to spend money, and no matter what the Japanese government tries their economic policies end up failing. Most of the money they stimulate the economy with ends up getting stuck in the hands of people who don't want to spend money and it's difficult to convince them otherwise. They've been mired in economic stagnation bordering on decline (and now de facto decline from this point on) because of the shrinking population that consumes less. Japan could stabilize, but even under the best case scenario this is decades away. And then we have to consider that China next door is about to undergo Japans same problem in the next decade - albeit to a far worse degree.

I've thought about working in Japan, but I doubt they need more people for the video game industry :v:

And apparently(don't quote me) we're overpopulated and have little to no available jobs in the US. Why not send some opportune English workers to learn Japanese and fill the gap? [QUOTE=Sobotnik;50629781]Japanese people decided to stop having children more or less. Fewer of them marry or get into relationships, and of those reduced numbers even fewer have children. They typically delay having children until later in life too, and prefer smaller families (especially because raising a child is difficult and the Japanese government/workplaces aren't the most flexible when it comes to people and their children). Japanese people look down heavily on children born out of wedlock too, which is a partially contributing factor. A lot of social changes has produced a generally depressed attitude as well. A lot of people are reluctant to spend money, and no matter what the Japanese government tries their economic policies end up failing. Most of the money they stimulate the economy with ends up getting stuck in the hands of people who don't want to spend money and it's difficult to convince them otherwise. They've been mired in economic stagnation bordering on decline (and now de facto decline from this point on) because of the shrinking population that consumes less. Japan could stabilize, but even under the best case scenario this is decades away. And then we have to consider that China next door is about to undergo Japans same problem in the next decade - albeit to a far worse degree.[/QUOTE] I wonder why the sudden halt though. Its not like they all went "Welp I don't feel like having kids in my life!"

[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;50629825]I wonder why the sudden halt though. Its not like they all went "Welp I don't feel like having kids in my life!"[/QUOTE] It slowly built up since the 1980s and fed in on itself in a positivefeedback loop. It's just that now it's finally starting to all come together and to really kick off.

[QUOTE=Diet Kane;50629758]So when is the best time for me to move to Japan and form my own gaijin bosozoku gang?[/QUOTE] I'll be the guy that says YEAH to everything you say.

I also heard (just hearsay tho, no stats to back this up) that a lot of Japanese people are simply so focused on studies, job and career that it basically leaves them no space to think about having a family life, and wages would more or less require both parents to be working as well. So even without social expectations for a lot of people it just makes the most sense economically to stay single. When life's so hectic and career-focused that you're just glad to come home and put your feet up for a few hours before heading to bed, you may not want to put up with dating and maintaining serious relationships, leave alone take care of a child, which is a lot of pain and effort.

[QUOTE=A B.A. Survivor;50629872]I'll be the guy that says YEAH to everything you say.[/QUOTE] And I'll be the 'comic' relief.

[QUOTE=Diet Kane;50629758]So when is the best time for me to move to Japan and form my own gaijin bosozoku gang?[/QUOTE] And I'll be the useless guy.

[QUOTE=maddogsamurai;50629825]And apparently(don't quote me) we're overpopulated and have little to no available jobs in the US. Why not send some opportune English workers to learn Japanese and fill the gap?[/QUOTE] because japan is xenophobic as fuck and doesnt want foreigners moving in. [editline]1st July 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Makzu;50629731]So, why exactly is this happening?[/QUOTE] anime

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50629781]Japanese people decided to stop having children more or less. Fewer of them marry or get into relationships, and of those reduced numbers even fewer have children. They typically delay having children until later in life too, and prefer smaller families (especially because raising a child is difficult and the Japanese government/workplaces aren't the most flexible when it comes to people and their children). Japanese people look down heavily on children born out of wedlock too, which is a partially contributing factor. A lot of social changes has produced a generally depressed attitude as well. A lot of people are reluctant to spend money, and no matter what the Japanese government tries their economic policies end up failing. Most of the money they stimulate the economy with ends up getting stuck in the hands of people who don't want to spend money and it's difficult to convince them otherwise. They've been mired in economic stagnation bordering on decline (and now de facto decline from this point on) because of the shrinking population that consumes less. Japan could stabilize, but even under the best case scenario this is decades away. And then we have to consider that China next door is about to undergo Japans same problem in the next decade - albeit to a far worse degree.[/QUOTE] it didn't help that they've had crushing student debt, low long term employment and crushing social taboos for 20+ years now maybe it won't affect western societies as much because we have a different attitude about sex and children outside marriage, but you see the same phenomena happening in the middle east, more men unable to afford to live on their own, unable to afford a marriage, and consequently unable to get married. japan's workplace certainly is legendary for being absolutely garbage to workers too and it certainly hurts recruitment from abroad

[QUOTE=Sableye;50629970] japan's workplace certainly is legendary for being absolutely garbage to workers too and it certainly hurts recruitment from abroad[/QUOTE] and the thing about the workplaces too is that they become your whole life too. the working culture there is very serious [url]http://www.kalzumeus.com/2014/11/07/doing-business-in-japan/[/url] this was linked on here i think awhile ago, its a pretty good read about working in japan

[QUOTE=Makzu;50629731]So, why exactly is this happening?[/QUOTE] High taxes, raising families requires lots of effort/time, and work hours in Japan can be summed up as soul crushing insanity. [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink]The biggest issue is the thing known as the "Behavioral sink"[/url], in which life becomes so easy, that it's preferable to not introduce stresses such as taking care of children into the mixture. See, when you look at areas with low-income conditions, the incentive to have children is mainly to have a sort of insurance plan if you will. Having children means that if something were to happen to any of the main bread winners, one of the children could take the helm and still keep the family afloat. When you remove those threats of survival though, be it through artificial means such as welfare programs(safety nets) or continue to subsidize the system which influences the behavioral sink, you create a thought-process of, "Why have children?" and this type of thought process which usually exists in higher income groups, and is now coming down and hitting the low income groups, as their incomes are enough to allow them to live in better conditions then some of the higher-classes of bygone eras. In the case of Behavioral sink experiments, you have things like Universe 25: [quote]Following his earlier experiments with rats, in 1972 Calhoun would later create his "Mortality-Inhibiting Environment for Mice": a 101-inch square cage for mice with food and water replenished to support any increase in population, which took his experimental approach to its limits. In his most famous experiment in the series, "Universe 25", population peaked at 2,200 mice and thereafter exhibited a variety of abnormal, often destructive behaviors. By the 600th day, the population was on its way to extinction.[/quote] And this type of experiment shows the problem of giving people everything in a matter of good intent. Humans need a sense of survival, and sadly we are entering an era where survivalist ideas are just some fun hobby that people do on the weekends. If we cannot reverse the current safety net systems, at the very least we can push for systems of welfare that are done in such a way where able bodied people are pushed to work in manual labor jobs as if only to enforce a somewhat artificial sense of survival. Safety nets should always exist, but once you reach a point like Japan, it becomes destructive to the civilization and collective as a whole.

[QUOTE=Makzu;50629731]So, why exactly is this happening?[/QUOTE] The more developed an economy gets, the less prone to having more babies x family it gets (Did I phrase that correctly?) As you start earning more and wanting to climb further in the business world, you've got less time to stay at home and look after your children. And as women have joined the men in the search for business success, now there's almost nobody at home. google "Population pyramid" and check out how the ones from Europe are, how the ones from Africa are and how the ones from so-so countries like Argentina are. You'll find the countries like Nigeria have a big ass base and then after 20-30 the % drops quickly. Argentina has more people in its 15-20's and then Germany for example has got more people in the 30-40's. Europe has been trying to stall this or prevent what's happening to Japan by offering more and more incentives to stay at home and have kids. Like, one year maternal leave with full 100% salary and so.

yep, japanese villages are incredibly depressing. they're slowly going extinct and becoming abandoned as the occupants grow up and realize they have literally no reason to stay. schools in these towns typically have 2 - 3 elderly teachers in a tiny little schoolhouse. it's sad, really.

What solution could the government come up with to get people having kids again?

[QUOTE=plokoon9619;50629654]To think Humanity in some parts of the world is facing extinction.[/QUOTE] There's big economic issues as a result of shrinking population, but it's silly to say that they're facing extinction. There's 127 million people living there. For reference, the US has 318 million people living in it. Japan, a tiny island, has nearly a third of the population of the entire United States of America.

Heh, whole Europe was moving to Germany since what, 1970s, and they still lost 1 million people in the last 10 years. Immigration can have only a temporary effect when society deals with limited job opportunities, long work hours, way too long education process, small living apartments is urban areas that themselves limit family size, modern values that see children more as a cancer than anything else and focus on individualism and independence, etc...

Less hentai more real women, okay Japan?

So let me get this straight: -Japan currently has a immigration problem with only a minimum of immigrants coming to shore -American or other country people have problems finding a job in Japan due to some xenophobic polices and social norms in select parts of the country -There is a decrease in birth rates since the 80's for god only knows why and has started to pick up speed -Work polices make it so that your job becomes your life and relationships are only a afterthought -A Tsunami and Nuclear Power Plant failure close together took a bit of Japan away This...feels like a tragedy waiting to happen, and I really don't want to see that happening.

[QUOTE=KillRay;50629994]and the thing about the workplaces too is that they become your whole life too. the working culture there is very serious[/QUOTE] Few days ago I watched a documentary about Hayao Miyazaki, founder of Studio Ghibli. He would come to work at 10 AM and go home at 9 PM. So basically, he would have breakfast, go to work, then come home, have dinner and go to sleep. He didn't take vacations and stuff. His entire life was basically his work. Still had two children thought, but that is probably because he is old school.

So being unemployed as I am, could I find a job in Japan worth moving there for?

[QUOTE=archangel125;50630034]What solution could the government come up with to get people having kids again?[/QUOTE] There's very little they could do in all honesty. There's introducing more legislation which would make it much easier for parents to take time off work and for women to keep on working after having children. There's reducing discrimination against women, fertility treatments, propaganda campaigns, subsidies/tax deductions for those who have children, and loosening controls on immigration too. Unfortunately even all of these together, it would take decades to reach the replacement rate (if it even got there), and even longer for the population to stabilize. The longer this goes on, the more strain is put on the Japanese government as tax revenues fall, the economy shrinks, and the cost of maintaining infrastructure and their commitments to society spiral out of control. When we consider that China is about to enter the same situation, the future for east Asia is not looking bright once we reach the middle of this century