I can't watch Black Mirror in large quantities because it is such a mood killer, though I love it regardless. That being said, folks friggen love San Junipero - the one happily-ever-after episode, which shows that the series doesn't always [i]need[/i] to be a catharsis-free tragedy to be great.
I love Black Mirror but damn if I'm not depressed after watching it. The show does a great job of making you think.
With all due respect to this show, I'm getting to a point in my life where I think solid optimistic material is more valuable to me than such intense cynicism.
If I need tragedy without catharsis, why not just read the news? If this technological apocalypse on the horizon is an inevitable reality, why shouldn't I just jump off a cliff now?
[QUOTE=McSkinny;52748299]I can't watch Black Mirror in large quantities because it is such a mood killer, though I love it regardless. That being said, folks friggen love San Junipero - the one happily-ever-after episode, which shows that the series doesn't always [i]need[/i] to be a catharsis-free tragedy to be great.[/QUOTE]
Unpopular opinion time, but San Junipero was my least favorite episode of Black Mirror. Maybe because it was so tonally different than the rest of the episodes in that regard.
That isn't to say it's a bad episode or I didn't like it - it's great, and I still [b]really[/b] enjoyed it. But compared to so many other episodes, like White Christmas, White Bear, 15 Million Merits, Nosedive, etc, etc, it just comes up as weak to me.
The only episodes I think are close to it in terms of weakness are the very first episode, and Waldo. I still liked them more than San Junipero, but by very slim margins.
There is definitely too much pessimistic shit in it. There is a very similar problem with a lot of modern shows where it simply becomes uninteresting because there is never a single fucking ray of light anywhere.
When a show is a 100% dark and has zero positive moments it becomes boring, very similar issue with Fortitude and Game of Thrones, and arguably Walking Dead as well.
There is nothing engaging about meaningless futility.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;52749468]
When a show is a 100% dark and has zero positive moments it becomes boring, very similar issue with Fortitude and Game of Thrones, and arguably Walking Dead as well.
There is nothing engaging about meaningless futility.[/QUOTE]
well why do people continue watching these shows? i think alot of people are just fucking sick of light hearted shit because it does not reflect human nature or reality in the least. shows like game of thrones and black mirror are imo still a bit too fucking light for their own good, but they are better reflections of reality and how human beings really are than anything television allowed before
[QUOTE=9millmeeter;52749777]well why do people continue watching these shows? i think alot of people are just fucking sick of light hearted shit because it does not reflect human nature or reality in the least. shows like game of thrones and black mirror are imo still a bit too fucking light for their own good, but they are better reflections of reality and how human beings really are than anything television allowed before[/QUOTE]
What lighthearted shit? there hasn't been any popular lighthearted shit in 500 shitzillion years, the balance has been heavily tipped in the other direction which is also undesirable.
I believe that one of the purposes of art is to elevate human spirit, even if it uses dark themes. If the show is simply a downer why watch it? Everyone already realizes that the world is a troubled mess, a creative reminder is really not necessary when the news are already available.
[QUOTE=McSkinny;52748299]I can't watch Black Mirror in large quantities because it is such a mood killer, though I love it regardless. That being said, folks friggen love San Junipero - the one happily-ever-after episode, which shows that the series doesn't always [i]need[/i] to be a catharsis-free tragedy to be great.[/QUOTE]
I always considered [I]Nosedive[/I] to have a good ending aswell. [sp]Sure, the girl went through a lot of shit, lost many of her (fake) friends and got put in jail, but the last moments show her being happier than ever because of finally being free from that horrible rating system.[/sp]
Personally I think Bob Ross put it best.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugJfjmxOR2I[/media]
Otherwise you get a stale show whether its constantly dark and depressing or completely happy, you need contrast or the struggles and respites are completely meaningless.
There's a ton horrible thing about life and surely there are plenty of downs in your personal life, but honestly can people really say that humanity and life is that terrible? You guys need to get outside more and take a breath.
[QUOTE=omarfr;52750587]There's a ton horrible thing about life and surely there are plenty of downs in your personal life, but honestly can people really say that humanity and life is that terrible? You guys need to get outside more and take a breath.[/QUOTE]
I don't think people are trying to say that all of life is meaningless and futile like Black Mirror. But meaningless futility [I]is[/I] a [I]part[/I] of real life that is rarely portrayed accurately in media, but is in Black Mirror.
[B]EDIT:[/B] I think I misunderstood you. It's interesting that the people complaining are saying it's bad because it feels too real since the real world is already terrible. Meanwhile I think it's good [I]because[/I] it feels real and the real world is terrible, it feels like a way to deal with that anxiety, possibly. The same bleak outlook can apparently cause both the appreciation and the rejection of this kind of entertainment.
[editline]5th October 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=genkaz92;52749806]What lighthearted shit? there hasn't been any popular lighthearted shit in 500 shitzillion years, the balance has been heavily tipped in the other direction which is also undesirable.
I believe that one of the purposes of art is to elevate human spirit, even if it uses dark themes. If the show is simply a downer why watch it? Everyone already realizes that the world is a troubled mess, a creative reminder is really not necessary when the news are already available.[/QUOTE]
But, I don't think it's simply a downer. I'm intensely drawn to pessimistic, post-apocalyptic and bleak stories. And so are many others, considering the 500 shitzillion year flood of bleak entertainment. You can ask, [I]"how do these pessimistic shows elevate the human spirit, and why doesn't it work for me?"[/I], but it sounds like you're denying that it has value, which it clearly has to a great number of people.
[QUOTE=McSkinny;52748299]I can't watch Black Mirror in large quantities because it is such a mood killer, though I love it regardless. That being said, folks friggen love San Junipero - the one happily-ever-after episode, which shows that the series doesn't always [i]need[/i] to be a catharsis-free tragedy to be great.[/QUOTE]
San Junipero is arguably the darkest in the series.
[sp]Early on, a side character states "[game] has a different ending depending on if it's one or two players." That was a clue - there's also duality to the episode's ending. Pay attention to the ending sequence - it doesn't actually show the dying character with the consciousness transferring device on her head. When the personality device with her profile is added to the server next to the main character's, its light is different. The dying woman (forgot the character name) likely didn't actually decide to stick around in San Junipero. The company created an AI duplicate of her to keep the main character happy. The happy music is a fakeout to make you believe it was a happy ending.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Supacasey;52750750]San Junipero is arguably the darkest in the series.
[sp]Early on, a side character states "[game] has a different ending depending on if it's one or two players." That was a clue - there's also duality to the episode's ending. Pay attention to the ending sequence - it doesn't actually show the dying character with the consciousness transferring device on her head. When the personality device with her profile is added to the server next to the main character's, its light is different. The dying woman (forgot the character name) likely didn't actually decide to stick around in San Junipero. The company created an AI duplicate of her to keep the main character happy. The happy music is a fakeout to make you believe it was a happy ending.[/sp][/QUOTE]
But aren't [sp]all the lights are different? Is it actually established what the colors of the lights mean? The 'AI duplicate' idea is scary on it's own (They're not us!), but if it's a duplicate then what really is the difference from a 'consciousness transfer'? My understanding of this episode is that it just accepts, and wants the audience to accept, the premise that a consciousness copied and pasted into a server is functionally the same person. So in the context of that premise it doesn't actually make much sense to differentiate between 'just a copy' and a 'transfer' since the issue of authenticity in a simulation isn't actually the scope of the episode.[/sp]
[QUOTE=Supacasey;52750750]San Junipero is arguably the darkest in the series.
[sp]Early on, a side character states "[game] has a different ending depending on if it's one or two players." That was a clue - there's also duality to the episode's ending. Pay attention to the ending sequence - it doesn't actually show the dying character with the consciousness transferring device on her head. When the personality device with her profile is added to the server next to the main character's, its light is different. The dying woman (forgot the character name) likely didn't actually decide to stick around in San Junipero. The company created an AI duplicate of her to keep the main character happy. The happy music is a fakeout to make you believe it was a happy ending.[/sp][/QUOTE]
I still would not say that is the darkest in the series, as everyone sort of gets what they wanted in the end.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;52750675]But, I don't think it's simply a downer. I'm intensely drawn to pessimistic, post-apocalyptic and bleak stories. And so are many others, considering the 500 shitzillion year flood of bleak entertainment. You can ask, [I]"how do these pessimistic shows elevate the human spirit, and why doesn't it work for me?"[/I], but it sounds like you're denying that it has value, which it clearly has to a great number of people.[/QUOTE]
Does it have value to people? Potentially. Not nearly as much as they would have had if they weren't a 100 percent dark.
You may find this notion silly but I do not believe that pessimism or nihilism is healthy to anyone, even to those who are drawn to it.
The main reason why people enjoy those shows seems to originate from lots of people having a sadistic subconscious desire to watch the world burn. Watching the characters of a show descend into a futile downwards spiral gives quite the raging boner.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;52750822]But aren't [sp]all the lights are different? Is it actually established what the colors of the lights mean? The 'AI duplicate' idea is scary on it's own (They're not us!), but if it's a duplicate then what really is the difference from a 'consciousness transfer'? My understanding of this episode is that it just accepts, and wants the audience to accept, the premise that a consciousness copied and pasted into a server is functionally the same person. So in the context of that premise it doesn't actually make much sense to differentiate between 'just a copy' and a 'transfer' since the issue of authenticity in a simulation isn't actually the scope of the episode.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]The difference being the second character didn't actually choose to stay with the main character, she just chose to die rather than continue their relationship. It depends on which ending you think happened; if the second character actually chose to live in the simulation it's happy, otherwise it's an unresolved disparagement between the characters. Which is why that specific line "the ending is different if it's one or two players" is important. I don't actually think the episode was addressing the principal of consciousness transferring essentially just being duplicates. If it had, then it'd undermine the whole reason for the company's existence and really their argument in the first place - why keep yourself "alive" after death if it's not actually you that's alive.[/sp]
[QUOTE=McSkinny;52750868]I still would not say that is the darkest in the series, as everyone sort of gets what they wanted in the end. The [sp]pedophile teenager[/sp] episode hit me hardest as a gay dude who has dealt with a sorta similar situation while I was in the closet.[/QUOTE]
Ehhh that one was kinda cringey, just on personal preference. The [sp]troll face[/sp] at the end didn't help.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;52751107]The main reason why people enjoy those shows seems to originate from lots of people having a sadistic subconscious desire to watch the world burn. Watching the characters of a show descend into a futile downwards spiral gives quite the raging boner.[/QUOTE]
That's a really strong and arrogant claim, do you have any evidence for this? Really convenient for you that it's supposedly subconscious, too.
[QUOTE=Supacasey;52751129][sp]The difference being the second character didn't actually choose to stay with the main character, she just chose to die rather than continue their relationship. It depends on which ending you think happened; if the second character actually chose to live in the simulation it's happy, otherwise it's an unresolved disparagement between the characters. Which is why that specific line "the ending is different if it's one or two players" is important. I don't actually think the episode was addressing the principal of consciousness transferring essentially just being duplicates. If it had, then it'd undermine the whole reason for the company's existence and really their argument in the first place - why keep yourself "alive" after death if it's not actually you that's alive.[/sp][/QUOTE]
[sp]The last part is exactly my point too. The episode isn't addressing the authenticity of duplicates, so it doesn't seem accurate to interpret the ending like it suddenly is about this one being a 'fake'. And that line is someone talking about an arcade game, how can it be related to San Junipero when San Junipero is already filled with much more than just two 'players'?[/sp]
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;52752174]That's a really strong and arrogant claim, do you have any evidence for this? Really convenient for you that it's supposedly subconscious, too.[/QUOTE]
Your overly serious and offended reaction to my post would be initial evidence, also there is literally nothing arrogant about my post, I am just taking a jab at random shit, I am not presuming to have any authority or superiority, arrogant would be if I personally told a bunch of specific users in this thread that they were monsters.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;52752475]Your overly serious and offended reaction to my post would be initial evidence, also there is literally nothing arrogant about my post, I am just taking a jab at random shit, I am not presuming to have any authority or superiority, arrogant would be if I personally told a bunch of specific users in this thread that they were monsters.[/QUOTE]
It is arrogant to assume you know why the people that disagree with you feel the way they do. And it is serious and offensive when your conclusion is that they are sadists. I don't think my post was [I]overly[/I] serious and offended, though, I'm just saying strong claims like that need to be backed by strong evidence or left unsaid.
[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;52755243]It is arrogant to assume you know why the people that disagree with you feel the way they do. And it is serious and offensive when your conclusion is that they are sadists. I don't think my post was [I]overly[/I] serious and offended, though, I'm just saying strong claims like that need to be backed by strong evidence or left unsaid.[/QUOTE]
Alright, if what I said was offensive and if you legitimately felt that I was being a jerk to you and to others then I sincerely apologize, The reason why I say such things occasionally is because I simply cannot be moderate and polite all the time, occasionally I simply have to say something strongly worded or spicy or otherwise I get bored, but if I went too far this time and actually ended up being a dick then my bad, I really have to let you know that I did not even remotely mean to be legitimately a jerk though.
Fair enough, I appreciate that. I do think it's an interesting idea you brought up, whether or not this type of bleak entertainment is healthy or if it might have negative effects. Or, if it is some kind of coping mechanism for dealing with fears, how it works.
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