First 3DS Max animation

[Doakes]

As I mentioned when I first surfaced, the whole reason I was into extracting from MGS Portable Ops Plus was so I could learn to rig the models and use them in my series. So after spending a few months familiarizing myself with Autodesk 3DS Max 2012, and a few months animating this hussy, here's the end result:
[video=youtube;ef_P1GZpRxE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ef_P1GZpRxE[/video]
Now, even still, I'm fairly new to the process, so any notes on how to improve for future episodes would be greatly appreciated.

Otherwise, hope y'all enjoy!

[C O Y O T E]

It's pretty damn good for your first. And really ambitious given it's length. I like it!

[editline]25th March 2013[/editline]

(And yes, I'm judging this based on just the first minute, but I like what I see so far!)

[Biscuit-Boy]

Obviously it's going to have its faults, but you can tell you've put in the work.

[Neo Kabuto]

It's very good for a first animation. The models are really the weakest part, but changing them would defeat the purpose.

Have you tried using Maya? I've heard that it's better for animation than 3DS Max, and it has some different tools that might be easier to use.

[Doakes]

Thanks guys, you're all far too kind!
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;40031634]It's very good for a first animation. The models are really the weakest part, but changing them would defeat the purpose.

Have you tried using Maya? I've heard that it's better for animation than 3DS Max, and it has some different tools that might be easier to use.[/QUOTE]
Thank you kindly. Regarding models, admittedly, that's actually why I chose them. Low res with fewer mesh to attach and deal with meant fewer bones to have to worry about, making animation I guess easier for someone as greenhorn to the whole thing as I.

As for Maya, yes, I actually did give it a run and have heard excellent things, but only the Max tutorials; shockingly, explained things in a way a technological dope like myself could comprehend. Plus, for whatever reason, Maya just wouldn't import textures or take the skeleton in question. Odds are, user error on my part, but when I get something working, I just run with what I can get.

Based on what I've seen, Maya definitely seems to have the edge on producing slicker animations, though I suspect it's likely reserved for someone more proficient in animation than I.

[Doakes]

Almost forgot, in the unlikely event that maybe you folks want some more context as to what's going on, you can check out the previous episodes here, although these are traditional machinima. *IE, a 34 year old man sitting in his office in front of 5 PSP's at once with a lot of rubber bands. Somehow, doing it all on Max makes me feel less ashamed of what my life has become:

[QUOTE][video=youtube;C0U6sQC-JQQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0U6sQC-JQQ[/video]
[video=youtube;sgzK8hXTFhg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgzK8hXTFhg[/video]
[video=youtube;iwnFIWCXY5A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwnFIWCXY5A[/video][/QUOTE]

Admittedly, that was the biggest reason I turned to Max. As hard as one may try, it's incredibly unrealistic to expect any viewers to REALLY take a bunch of video game characters staring at each other and bobbing their heads all too seriously. I figure at least with Max, you can toss the occasional fight scene or shootouts to keep viewers from clicking the back button 30 seconds in, heh.

[SundayRoast]

Better then my first 3DS Max animation:
[video=youtube;PnuJo69ebRA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnuJo69ebRA[/video]

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;40035478]Better then my first 3DS Max animation:
[video=youtube;PnuJo69ebRA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnuJo69ebRA[/video][/QUOTE]
Say what you will, but that right there is pretty spectacular to me, heh.

[bearwolf]

Subscribed love MGS

[chunkymonkey]

For me the weakest part is that everything is fullbright.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;40036569]For me the weakest part is that everything is fullbright.[/QUOTE]
Set on Consistent Color. I agree 100%. High-Key Lighting takes away from dramatic lighting and adds very little as opposed to a more shadowy Low-Key, which brings natural drama in itself. I was actually really hoping to use Low-Key Lighting for this episode, and even rendered all the characters in Low Key Lighting / Realistic (on Max) just to see the difference it makes, and the lighting is indeed more dynamic in Low-Key:
[QUOTE][IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/541751_10151327456768887_865036734_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/576146_10151502204053887_1627816079_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/893981_10151506637728887_1482502694_o.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/278148_10151288298718887_1549444201_o.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
The problem, however, is that for whatever reason, levels don't render properly on that setting; at least the ones I've rigged. They always appear to have parts missing and gaping holes every which way as though it were Swiss Cheese. I will look and see if I can adjust the sky settings and at least get some form of Low-Key lighting so it isn't persistently bright from start to finish.

Thank you kindly for the honest feedback.

[Doakes]

"The way they walk looks weird."

To be honest, I've always felt that, and despite re-animating walk motion again and again, I'm never really satisfied with the way it looks. The problem is I just can't get the motion right. After timing myself again and again with basic walking, one second usually meant two steps, which translated onto the timeline would mean each step would have to be 15 frames after the previous, moving the calves and knowing how far I should the previous thigh back is surprisingly challenging considering I was relatively comfortable tossing a 10 second little fight scene at the 2 minute marker, heh.

I've HEARD that Kinect could be used for motion capture courtesy of Brekel and Autodesk MotionBuilder, which there is also a free faculty / student edition of on Autodesk's website. Has anyone ever tried the combination with successful results? If so, I'd be more than willing to shell out a hundred dollars for a Kinect if I could actually use it for more natural looking motion on the characters.

[All0utWar]

I have no idea what's going on right now but this looks really nice. I'm 8 minutes in.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=All0utWar;40047962]I have no idea what's going on right now but this looks really nice. I'm 8 minutes in.[/QUOTE]
To get the content of what's going on, you'd have to watch the three previous episodes. Unfortunately, those are traditional machinima and not animated, and less likely to appeal to folks here.

Still, thank you for the kind words.

[Doakes]

So I ended up making this hoping to cover all essential beats in one singular shot. All in all, it turned out relatively decently for such a brief bit, although the opening motion was faster than I hoped it would be with his shrug, and I kind of wish I had done something with the XOF guy after Gilbert spoke, but after 3 hours rendering a 15 second clip, I was more or less done, heh:
[QUOTE][video=youtube;Xr349XspHHc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xr349XspHHc[/video][/QUOTE]
However, it got me thinking, that for longer running single shots like this, motion needs to be pretty steady and recurring, and as it stands, I feel like what I've been doing is still relatively too basic to be that interesting or seen as legitimately lively. All I really do for basic prone is move spine1 and neck in opposite directions, and occasionally spine in the same direction as neck, but arm moving and pointing still feels either too stiff or artificial for me. Then this was recently brought to my attention by the actor who plays Null, and he suggested I give it a go:

[url]http://ipisoft.com/store/[/url]

I have everything the software needs, so I'm waiting for my schedule to clear up before I download and install the 30 day demo. As is, I struggled immensely with Brekel and importing motion into Motion Builder, but I hear this software picks up on a lot more than Brekel does, so I'm hoping it will not only be easier to save and export the motion biped, but to 'implant' it into models themselves since their website claims it to be compatible with Autodesk Max and Maya.

Has anyone heard anything about ipisoft or tried it out themselves?

[Mr Shadyface]

Was expecting shoddy, glitchy animation with cringe-worthy voice acting and a dull plot.

Got fairly smooth animation with ok voice acting and an average, watchable plot.

I feel ever so slightly robbed.

[chunkymonkey]

[QUOTE=Doakes;40038009]Set on Consistent Color. I agree 100%. High-Key Lighting takes away from dramatic lighting and adds very little as opposed to a more shadowy Low-Key, which brings natural drama in itself. I was actually really hoping to use Low-Key Lighting for this episode, and even rendered all the characters in Low Key Lighting / Realistic (on Max) just to see the difference it makes, and the lighting is indeed more dynamic in Low-Key:

The problem, however, is that for whatever reason, levels don't render properly on that setting; at least the ones I've rigged. They always appear to have parts missing and gaping holes every which way as though it were Swiss Cheese. I will look and see if I can adjust the sky settings and at least get some form of Low-Key lighting so it isn't persistently bright from start to finish.

Thank you kindly for the honest feedback.[/QUOTE]

I say do your best to get the better lighting working because having it so bright really draws attention to the poor texture quality since everything is so clearly visible.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;40089061]I say do your best to get the better lighting working because having it so bright really draws attention to the poor texture quality since everything is so clearly visible.[/QUOTE]
I just wish I knew why it was like that with certain obj's. I'm sure I'll get it working eventually though. What's funny is what you're describing reminds me a lot of Syphon Filter for Playstation. In-game, the graphics have consistent color and the poor texture quality is glaringly present, yet in cutscenes, they roll with Low-Key lighting and it looks a lot better because the shadows, as you said, mask the poor textures:
[QUOTE][IMG]http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/14/140440/2011558-syphon_filter_2_knife.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i3.ytimg.com/vi/BPqollmq4FM/mqdefault.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
So, I will definitely try to get it working to mask those underwhelming PSP textures.
[QUOTE]Was expecting shoddy, glitchy animation with cringe-worthy voice acting and a dull plot.

Got fairly smooth animation with ok voice acting and an average, watchable plot.

I feel ever so slightly robbed.[/QUOTE]
Heh, at my age, you learn to take whatever compliments you can get, so thank you kindly. Glad it was; at the very least, somewhat tolerable for ya.

[Fractalz]

Great job man! It looks good and I can see the potential on where you will be if you keep at it.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=Fractalz;40090422]Great job man! It looks good and I can see the potential on where you will be if you keep at it.[/QUOTE]
Thank you kindly. Hopefully I can keep it going with something like Motion Builder or potentially ipisoft, which would mean less work on my end, and less potentially wonky animation, heh.

[CAS303]

Really really impressive, much better than when I first started animating 3D.

Nice to see lowpoly stuff too! Ive been a huge fan of old GoldSrc-era stuff. Speaking of which, here is an old test I did adding morph flexes to a Counterstrike: Condition Zero model which turned out pretty nice for how lowpoly it is:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np99ZaFPBZ4[/media]

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=CAS303;40100268]Really really impressive, much better than when I first started animating 3D.

Nice to see lowpoly stuff too! Ive been a huge fan of old GoldSrc-era stuff. Speaking of which, here is an old test I did adding morph flexes to a Counterstrike: Condition Zero model which turned out pretty nice for how lowpoly it is:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np99ZaFPBZ4[/media][/QUOTE]
Rock solid! Yeah, I like working with low-poly models too. Truth is, the animations I'll be working on take a lot of time because of their length and with low poly models, I don't have to worry about facial movement, fingers, or running too much at once because of how small the models are in comparison. As fun as high poly models are, I can't rig or mesh-mod them to save my life, neither can I work with them for anywhere near the duration as these models, heh.

Also, nice work with the lip sync. Did you add the jaw mesh yourself or was it included in the CS model?

[milkandcooki]

I love what you've done so far. I've never played Portable Ops so I have no idea who half of these characters are, save for the typical Russian grunts and the burn-face guy.

Think you're going to use the Peace Walker models sometime? Would love to see what you could pull off with that.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=milkandcooki;40102227]I love what you've done so far. I've never played Portable Ops so I have no idea who half of these characters are, save for the typical Russian grunts and the burn-face guy.

Think you're going to use the Peace Walker models sometime? Would love to see what you could pull off with that.[/QUOTE]
I'm actually working on a separate 'prologue' series for SWB called Complicity Syndicate which will be on PW. I've actually spent the past week or so working on some of the rigs and mesh / texture mods:
[QUOTE][IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/402006_10151512176198887_1961648954_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/65277_10151512190458887_138248053_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/549948_10151512255723887_528246125_n.jpg[/IMG]
And a WIP model I'm still tweaking up here and there.
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/536897_10151541072838887_1801936050_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/429738_10151476815053887_298173368_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/5316_10151526579808887_943225785_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Admittedly though, PW models are a pain to rig and texture up as opposed to MPO+ models, especially since I cannot get them in a prone stance for rigging, which makes the arms especially challenging to work with, but visually they are much more pleasing to look at, and there is a much wider variety of weapons, vehicles, and levels to work with as well.

[CAS303]

[QUOTE=Doakes;40101861]
Also, nice work with the lip sync. Did you add the jaw mesh yourself or was it included in the CS model?[/QUOTE]

The model geometry was unchanged. They have a jawbone that is used with the standard audio-to-bone-rotation-animation just like all other Halflife characters (and has the geometry to see the inside of the mouth), but I removed the rotation bone and just created 15 morph flexes via vertex manipulation. It was then compiled for source engine with custom flex controllers, and ran it through faceposer. The only time I created additional mesh was for [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOAqfgykSUY]this vid[/url] because CS:S models lack mouth insides.

Before I knew how to do morph flex sets I just animated the jawbone. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzeUd9aBLAM]This test[/url] showed a rig that included a box for easy control of it and other bones.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=CAS303;40103310]The model geometry was unchanged. They have a jawbone that is used with the standard audio-to-bone-rotation-animation just like all other Halflife characters (and has the geometry to see the inside of the mouth), but I removed the rotation bone and just created 15 morph flexes via vertex manipulation. It was then compiled for source engine with custom flex controllers, and ran it through faceposer. The only time I created additional mesh was for [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOAqfgykSUY]this vid[/url] because CS:S models lack mouth insides.

Before I knew how to do morph flex sets I just animated the jawbone. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzeUd9aBLAM]This test[/url] showed a rig that included a box for easy control of it and other bones.[/QUOTE]
Faceposer, eh? I actually hadn't heard of that before, I just assumed people animated the mouths manually, *which after trying a few times, proved hellish*. Does faceposer run any rigged models / sound files?

[CAS303]

For your purposes I highly recommend you stay in 3DSMax, and use just the "morpher" modifier for animating mouth/facial expressions. Compiling for source engine just to use [url=https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Faceposer]Faceposer[/url] (part of the Source SDK) would probably be a pain* unless you are set on making animation for a Sourcemod or using Source Filmmaker.

*I say this because learning .QC compile code and all the stuff associated with model preparation, exporting & compiling for source engine took me forever to get right. To be honest, its a [i][b]very[/b][/i] frustrating, and convoluted process even with the help of third-party tools.

[Doakes]

[QUOTE=CAS303;40107853]For your purposes I highly recommend you stay in 3DSMax, and use just the "morpher" modifier for animating mouth/facial expressions. Compiling for source engine just to use [url=https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Faceposer]Faceposer[/url] (part of the Source SDK) would probably be a pain* unless you are set on making animation for a Sourcemod or using Source Filmmaker.

*I say this because learning .QC compile code and all the stuff associated with model preparation, exporting & compiling for source engine took me forever to get right. To be honest, its a [i][b]very[/b][/i] frustrating, and convoluted process even with the help of third-party tools.[/QUOTE]
Fair point, and I have absolutely no intention of going for SFM after my previous failures with that software, heh. I just wish there was an easier way to animate mouth and leg movement for walking, I know ipisoft might do it with motion capture, but I guess I was kind of hoping there was a mocap software around for Max as well.

[Doakes]

Regarding lip / mouth movement on MPO / PW characters in general. On one hand, I don't think I've reached the point where I can do what this young man has done, nor am I sure I want to. On the other hand, moving mouths is likely more appealing than continuous poker faces, heh:
[QUOTE][video=youtube;yjLO0hngagw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjLO0hngagw[/video][/QUOTE]
The lad said to do it, he face vertexed half the head, detached it, inserted a mouth obj and reattached the head to rig the mouth up, which seems like a lot of work for low-res models. Admittedly, I've tried rigging mouths before with obj's that had the mouth meshes on them, but it's always led to one failure after another.

Should I just stick with the Syphon Filter 2 cutscene treatment and keep it non-mouth moving animated or is that just more unneeded work than necessary?

[Doakes]

[QUOTE]Okay, I would probably enjoy this if I wasn't utterly confused on one thing.

Since it uses character models from PO, I am not all sure which is meant to be representing who.

Is Haynes Major Zero or someone else altogether? Is Lobinov Sokolov or what?

I would deeply appreciate a sort of 'dramatis personae' by model.[/QUOTE]
I figured the fact that other characters referred to the models by different names and their actions alone would have been a sufficient enough indicator that "No, this is an original character that just happened to use an existing characters model because it's a unique looking model." Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case, so I just saved face and retextured / mesh modded the Major Zero model entirely so it would be easier for viewers to differentiate as Haines:
[QUOTE]
[IMG]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/525230_10151516786913887_1508636654_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/58889_10151516807378887_190353535_n.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/733847_10151516810878887_48218307_n.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
Went with a more Ray Stevenson hairdo, upped the scar damage on the left side of his face, a fake whited out left eye, meshed his attire so beneath his jacket he wears a mix of the Fox Sneaking Suit and TDKR's Bane attire.

Now, instead of mistaking him for Zero, I'm waiting for viewers to mistake him for Solidus. As for Lobonov, I'm still deciding on how to differentiate the Sokolov model. *What should be changed, what should be kept, etc.* Any modeling folks out there got any particular suggestions for what kind of route I should take with that particular model?