Girls and political ideology - where did it all go wrong? - General

Of all the girls I am acquainted with (I can imagine all the witty comments that will be posted in reply to this opening line), I don't know a single one who is actively and consciously politically minded. By this I mean that I know no woman who is aware of where they stand in a political sense; they have no real allegiance to any political party and no underlying political/social philosophy. Now, I understand that this is not an intrinsically bad thing - often the most impartial political decisions come from one with no underlying tendencies or opinions. That said, the unconscious political opinion of every girl I have ever heard speak on any serious issue tends to be right-wing and authoritarian to some at least some small extent. This is somewhat worrying. [b]----------------------------------------------[/b] I'll give a few personal examples ([b]you can probably skip all this long bit[/b] if you want; it explains what first-hand observations I have made): A class of mine is made up entirely of girls save for myself and one other lad who remains mostly silent throughout lessons. In a lesson today we were discussing justice and various justice systems in different societies (around the world and through history). One girl interjected with "prison is way too cushy, people just go there cos it's easy. Prison should be punishment and nothing else - people should be scared to go. There should be no comforts in prison". I sit quietly because I can't be bothered having this argument about rehabilitation again, especially with a girl who makes up statistics and ignorantly exaggerates the nature of prisons in a way that implies all prisoners get 24/7 access to SkyTV and other crap like that. The whole class, or at least those that spoke, agreed with her. The opinion of the female teacher was not clear. Other instances with this class have led to proclamations that the death sentence should be brought back, that the government's old plans for giving the very poor free laptops (as a way of improving equal opportunities) was stupid because "poor people will only sell the laptops to pay for drug habits anyway" and, as a direct quote from one female student: "I don't get Marxists and feminists. Why are they complaining all the time?" ... this is coming from a girl who has studied sociology for almost 2 years. A close female friend of mine, who is quite lovely and nice to people and generally an easy person to get along with, is so conformist it hurts. By "conformist" I don't mean that her attitude irritates me because she isn't an angsty teen wannabe anarchist, but her willingness to accept everything in society exactly as it is is painful. She will blindly defend anything on the basis that it is "the status quo" or "traditional" or "that's just how it is". She once remarked to me that she had a lovely story to tell, consisting of the following: [quote=stupid story]A girl started dating a Japanese guy. The girl's dad was in the USMC during WW2 and was tortured horribly by the Japanese in POW camps. When the dad met the girl's Japanese boyfriend, however, they shook hands and the dad was really civil and polite to the boyfriend[/quote] ... how the hell is that nice at all? It's not nice. It's acceptable. Anything less than that would have been horrible. Somehow, my friend had implied that being subjected to the harsh extremes of a country's people allows you to be racist to anyone of that nationality 60 years later. I could list many more examples I have noticed over the past few months but this thread is getting ridiculously overly-long as it is. [b]----------------------------------------------[/b] Now I'm not necessarily arguing that right-wing, authoritarian politics are intrinsically bad (that's another argument for another thread). What worries me is that this slight political lean is so apparent across the gender that there must be something deeper behind it. Right now this post probably seems like a horribly sexist and misogynist rant. It's not. I'm not saying all girls are like this, but the majority that I know are. I'm also not implying that this behaviour is the [i]fault[/i] of the girls. I think, like most things, it is down to socialisation: Many girls in this modern, quickly turning post-modern, world don't want to be viewed as "girly girls". I feel that many girls, therefore, turn to hardline, right-wing, no-nonsense political views to assert this. Saying things like "bring back the death sentence!" is not girly at all. It's almost like a statement that says "yes, I am going against the stereotyped gender role of women being caregivers - I am not a stereotype". In this way, thinking about libertarian and/or left wing policies appears girly - they're about letting people do what they want to do and about helping everyone in society out. That sounds stereotypically girly right? Caring? Pfft that's so gay. To this end, this problem is not the fault of [i]girls[/i], it is the fault of [i]society[/i]. What is most worrying about these observations, however, is that all of the girls in question are middle-class, well educated and high-attaining further-education students. They're not idiots with no education, no qualifications and equally stupid parents - these are the people that are going to go on to university to do degrees and get well-paid jobs, vote and influence the country in later years. They're also the sort of people who post Facebook statuses like this: [quote=Facebook status from yesterday]Just placed my vote... but I don't quite know what I voted for! haa[/quote] Gee. Nice one. I weep for the thousands that died to secure this country democracy. I weep even more for the women that fought so hard to get you the vote. I could go on for longer about the lack of general knowledge amongst most girls but that would open up a whole new debate about educational achievement vs real wider knowledge etc. etc. [b]Disclaimer:[/b] Most of this little essay/rant/shit is going to relate entirely to a mostly white, middle-class, British background and girls between the ages of 16 and 24. I am sure the situation is completely different for other ages, ethnicities, classes and nationalities all around the world. I accept that my view here is very specific to a small section of one single society. I understand that a lot of what I have said is highly applicable to all members of society. I have noticed, however, that the vast majority of my male friends have some sort of political opinion even if it is warped and simple. The girls, however, do not. [b]TL;DR: I have observed that most girls don't seem to have any conscious political ideology. If they do it is right wing. This is because of socialisation. Discuss.[/b]

Most girls I know who are even somewhat politically minded are left leaning. Thinking about it, I don't think I know more than a few people who are right wing sorta people. You can easily tell someone who just reads redtops and forms their political views around that and these are the sorts who are likely to be right wing voters.

I am not a political person either and I am a male. I am not american and I don't really give a shit about parties or ideologies and other crap. To me it seems really boring.

I can think of quite a few politically minded women off of the top of my head. And I'd say I've met more than a few who have an opinion on politics.

Sorry I don't share your anecdotal experience.

....I've seen more women being politically leaning then men in my experience.

Why should we even bother with voting at all.

I think girls just tend to be more apolitical. Which is kind of rich considering I didn't vote yesterday.

Loads of girls where I live in Sweden are actively doing something for their political beliefs.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;29655958]I am not a political person either and I am a male. I am not american and I don't really give a shit about parties or ideologies and other crap. To me it seems really boring.[/QUOTE] Regardless of how boring it is you should take interest in it. Politicians are the ones that shape and make major decisions for your country. You should vote for the person you think right, so idiots don't get power.

[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;29655911][b]TL;DR: I have observed that most girls don't seem to have any conscious political ideology. If they do it is right wing. This is because of socialisation. Discuss.[/b][/QUOTE] Not only do i not agree with everything above this line, and yes while I'd agree this is bad if it's strictly due to prevailing social preferences, how do you even know this to be true? Furthermore, would you accept this conclusion if some right-wing person was writing, stating people only become left-wing because of prevailing social preferences? [quote]Right now this post probably seems like a horribly sexist and misogynist rant. It's not.[/quote] Yes, it is, even if you accept that people can act in the way you describe it can be true of all people and not just women. You're assuming that people around you think differently than you, therefore they are brainless or influenced by society at large. While it may be true you offer no real evidence to support this claim and you don't similarly investigate the minds of men for comparison. So yeah, go away.

I don't think I've noticed any pattern re: left or right leaning among women, that tends to be decided purely by their own economic factors and/or what biased news channels they watch, just like men. As for your experience of most women being authoritarian over libertarian I have thoughts: ---most people are authoritarian in general, at least when they're speaking casually. ---people's opinions in a social setting can be different than the ones they'd have in private or on the internet, a person might feel socially pressured to say fascist things in the same way that you feel pressured not to get up and tell them how terrible their opinions are. edit: adding to that last thing: my actual opinion is that prisons shouldn't exist and that making people felons or sex offenders so that they can never have a good job or even vote again is a dick move, but in a social setting I often find myself saying "yeah, they should execute all rapists!" in any conversation the penal system comes up in just 'cause i want to get fucked and/or be acknowledged by my primarily conservative peers.

Well, I've had these experiences too. It might be were you are from and political efficacy of those areas. I get in to political arguments in my social issues class I end up destroying what little argument they have and they [b]ALMOST ALWAYS[/b] give the same excuse for losing "I'm not really into politics or anything." I mean the girls I know don't vote or hardly give a shit. And the few that do are conservative which kicks the assumption that girls are left leaning in the ass. And no. This is not misogynist this is noticing something that has to be found out already. Most of you here expect him to be having a full scientific survey of males and females. Also just letting you know: He is right, Women tend to have low amounts of political efficacy. The studies been done multiple times and yielded the same results. Currently the group with the highest political action is upper class white males with college education.

I actually kind of know what you mean, but it's not a female thing in my experience, it's just more like a consequence of general political ignorance. In my limited experience, people who don't seem to have any knowledge about politics seem to spout right-wing and conservative ideas (quote by my friend - "there are some things, once you do them, you should lose your human rights for"). I agree with you, it is kind of worrying.

Well I know a few girls that are politically minded, heres a pic: [img]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_S7iVIzpIReM/TEe_jmRk6aI/AAAAAAAAAEM/IPgOmSaT9Hk/s1600/Nat+Bolsheviks8.jpg[/img] If you don't know they are nazbols which is Nazism and stalinism put together.

[QUOTE=yaik9a;29657421]Well I know a few girls that are politically minded, heres a pic: [img_thumb]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_S7iVIzpIReM/TEe_jmRk6aI/AAAAAAAAAEM/IPgOmSaT9Hk/s1600/Nat+Bolsheviks8.jpg[/img_thumb] If you don't know they are nazbols which is Nazism and stalinism put together.[/QUOTE] weirdest party ever but i don't think they have much to do with nazism

[QUOTE=yaik9a;29657421]Well I know a few girls that are politically minded, heres a pic: [img_thumb]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_S7iVIzpIReM/TEe_jmRk6aI/AAAAAAAAAEM/IPgOmSaT9Hk/s1600/Nat+Bolsheviks8.jpg[/img_thumb] If you don't know they are nazbols which is Nazism and stalinism put together.[/QUOTE] and why would they follow that?

[QUOTE=yaik9a;29657421]Well I know a few girls that are politically minded, heres a pic: [img_thumb]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_S7iVIzpIReM/TEe_jmRk6aI/AAAAAAAAAEM/IPgOmSaT9Hk/s1600/Nat+Bolsheviks8.jpg[/img_thumb] If you don't know they are nazbols which is Nazism and stalinism put together.[/QUOTE] I could've sworn they were called National Bolsheviks, and don't refer to themselves as Nazbols.

haha absolutely everyone where I live is right-winged thank you anti-soviet propaganda

[QUOTE=NotMeh;29657676]haha absolutely everyone where I live is right-winged thank you anti-soviet propaganda[/QUOTE] Such is life in the Baltic nations.

That's why they can't vote. Wait, shit.

An ex of mine supposedly was moderate, but just sided with the conservatives (Catholic) on every issue. Twas annoying.

Politics seem to fall into the ground of fashion... No I don't mean that litearly, but more on the line it concerns me when I see people only voting for a political party because of, "WELL MONEY" or "I LIKED THE BUMPER STICKER" I may not be of the age to vote, but I'm quiet in the area of just not voting all together for the simple fact the majority will usually come from comforting alignments... Not down to reality politics.

How old are you? I wouldn't be surprised if teenage girls weren't interested in politics, but if you're talking about big boys and big girls then this thread would be worth making.

[QUOTE=Kopimi;29657772]How old are you? I wouldn't be surprised if teenage girls weren't interested in politics, but if you're talking about big boys and big girls then this thread would be worth making.[/QUOTE] Sixteen, but some things I've seen truly disgust me. I didn't side really during the 08' elections, but one of my sisters friends only voted for Obama(early 20's) because his bumper sticker had a peace symbol.

Where did you draw that socialization was the cause (oh and you spelled socialization wrong in your bolded statement at the bottom). Political views are typically passed down from generation to generation. So if that's what "socialization" is to you, then I guess you are right. But targeting this specific cohort proves to be just an observable phenomena for people you have encountered, and not a widespread truth. [editline]6th May 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;29657843]Sixteen, but some things I've seen truly disgust me. I didn't side really during the 08' elections, but one of my sisters friends only voted for Obama(early 20's) because his bumper sticker had a peace symbol.[/QUOTE] That's what the peace sign was there for. To give him the overall blanket of peace, and setting the mindset that a vote for him was a vote for peace. I guess you can say she was stupid, but she was just buying into the message that was being sent.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;29657843]Sixteen, but some things I've seen truly disgust me. I didn't side really during the 08' elections, but one of my sisters friends only voted for Obama(early 20's) because his bumper sticker had a peace symbol.[/QUOTE] Yeah, 16 year old girls not being interested in politics doesn't really surprise me.

I know a girl who is extremely politically active for the Democratic Party, and one who is rather strongly a conservative. Otherwise, you're right, I don't know any others.

I couldn't care less about politics. I don't even vote

I've personally seen more guys argue about politics, but that's because of our abundance of testosterone.