The jobs Trump promised to "get back"? They no longer exist. - Polidicks

[quote] The truth is that, over recent decades, the rich have been getting richer. Power has shifted to Wall Street and business. Globalization has caused the loss of millions of jobs in the United States. Some white Americans have also been terrified at the changing complexion — and values — of the country. Trump very smartly played to these fears and promised his supporters what he knew they wanted: greater economic opportunity by bringing back jobs shipped overseas. But those jobs, many in the manufacturing sector, are increasingly done by technology. Machines are learning to do the jobs of manufacturing workers; artificial intelligence-based tools are mastering the jobs of call-center and knowledge workers; and cars are beginning to drive themselves. Over the next decade, technology will decimate more jobs in many professions, inequality will increase and more people will be disadvantaged. Some robots already cost less to operate than the salaries of the humans they replace, and they are getting cheaper and better. Boston Consulting Group predicts that, by 2025, the operating cost of a robot that does welding will be less than $2 per hour, for example. That's more affordable than the $25 per hour that a human welder earns today in the U.S., and even cheaper than the pay of skilled workers in the lowest-income countries. Trump may be able to keep immigrants out, but how will he stop the advance of robots? [/quote] [url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-trump-biz-tech-automation-robots-jobs-20161109-story.html[/url]

-Snip-

[QUOTE=MarcusSmith;51344354]Now, didn't people hated bankers and rich ones? WHY ELECTING ONE IN FIRST PLACE?[/QUOTE] Simple answer? He tricked them.

[QUOTE=Apache249;51344363]Simple answer? He tricked them.[/QUOTE] Of course he tricked them (and mistakenly snipped), but what makes me cringe is that the usual american will still look with suspicion at billionaires and bankers. Gah, for me, USA are no more a thing at this point.

The salt has literally fallen off the table and shattered Now salt is all over the floor Thanks Freedom Land. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=chipsnapper2;51344611]The salt has literally fallen off the table and shattered Now salt is all over the floor Thanks Freedom Land.[/QUOTE] good comedy has relevance, and some basis in reality. this has little to no relevance to the thread, and a very biased view of reality. i'm sure you thought this was a great zinger when you wrote it, but it really just comes off as empty and detached

We told you this.

If technological progress that greatly increases our productivity leads to people having their life ruined then maybe that's an indicator of how absurd a society where living a decent life depends on being employed is.

[quote]Trump may be able to keep immigrants out, but how will he stop the advance of robots?[/quote] is this really a sentance I just read

[QUOTE=_Axel;51344688]If technological progress that greatly increases our productivity leads to people having their life ruined then maybe that's an indicator of how absurd a society where living a decent life depends on being employed is.[/QUOTE] Basic income when?

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;51344364]That's an awfully optimistic article, I would love to believe what they say about the future is true.[/QUOTE]What we need is to incentivize people to start small businesses and to give them assistance in that critical infancy period, distributing the foundations of the economy among them makes everything stronger. That trickle-down, bigger-is-better shit doesn't work, it just gives big corporations who fail in a fair market handouts and free passes to keep failing while we [I]all[/I] foot the bill. I think robotics will help with that, and companies are starting to offer somewhat affordable robotic options that small businesses can take advantage of. What we need is more of that, automation to go to the self-employed and the guy with one or two employees, I think that's the way for a strong economic future. [QUOTE=MarcusSmith;51344377]Of course he tricked them (and mistakenly snipped), but what makes me cringe is that the usual american will still look with suspicion at billionaires and bankers. Gah, for me, USA are no more a thing at this point.[/QUOTE]Hillary was the exact same creature, if a voter's interest was not electing somebody in bed with Wallstreet or had money there then they didn't have a choice in the main candidates. Of course we're going to look with suspicion at billionaires and bankers, some of us have actually been homeless while they're saying we need to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. For those of us who have one time or another? It's doubly insulting to hear that from people who haven't.

Ready for a race to the bottom lads? Last one there is a stable country! You are literally never getting these manufacturing jobs back without utterly annihilating the living conditions of the working class, and at best gutting the middle class that would be managing the working class. Automation can do more than us, faster than us, cheaper than us and all it requires is a fraction of the workforce to maintain it. Why the fuck would a company opt to have less productive meatbags do those jobs? Globalisation also cannot be stopped. Stop trying to avoid it. The birth of the Information age basically assures that the world is going to be wholly interconnected, making accessing cheap labour abroad easier than starting a whole new factory or whatever in your home country. This is the nature of networks such as the Internet, it's a one-way street unless you want to actually crash your entire fucking country like NK.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51344698]Basic income when?[/QUOTE] Not anytime soon in the US, that's for sure.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51344706]Not anytime soon in the US, that's for sure.[/QUOTE]Would absolutely make everything better, gut all welfare programs and use the funds from those to pay for UBI.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344786]Would absolutely make everything better, gut all welfare programs and use the funds from those to pay for UBI.[/QUOTE] That's almost guaranteed to put a lot of people in a world of hurt. Ultimately UBI could lead to a matched increase in costs of goods and services because the UBI would 'justify' it. I haven't seen an argument that has convinced me against this so far. If the price of goods and services have a matched increase and we gut welfare systems, then people on disabilities and the unemployed have comparatively less money than they used to and will find it harder to survive. People like to believe that UBI would close the class gap somewhat, but if we go your way and use such a simple solution, it has the potential to dramatically increase the class gap. That's not a good thing.

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51344802]That's almost guaranteed to put a lot of people in a world of hurt. Ultimately UBI could lead to a matched increase in costs of goods and services because the UBI would 'justify' it. I haven't seen an argument that has convinced me against this so far. If the price of goods and services have a matched increase and we gut welfare systems, then people on disabilities and the unemployed have comparatively less money than they used to and will find it harder to survive. People like to believe that UBI would close the class gap somewhat, but if we go your way and use such a simple solution, it has the potential to dramatically increase the class gap. That's not a good thing.[/QUOTE] Class gap is going to increase regardless if we have UBI or not. Without it people have no money, and with no money they can't get healthcare insurance or pay for an education to get a job. The divide grows. With it, people have the money for healthcare and education to get a job. People rely on it but it is needed so people are not struggling to survive. The divide grows anyway because of reliance on it.

Sure would've liked to see articles like these on all the front pages instead of #pussygate, [I]a month ago.[/I]

Even if they did, it's not like Trump or anyone else could ever do anything to bring them back.

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51344802]That's almost guaranteed to put a lot of people in a world of hurt. Ultimately UBI could lead to a matched increase in costs of goods and services because the UBI would 'justify' it. I haven't seen an argument that has convinced me against this so far. If the price of goods and services have a matched increase and we gut welfare systems, then people on disabilities and the unemployed have comparatively less money than they used to and will find it harder to survive. People like to believe that UBI would close the class gap somewhat, but if we go your way and use such a simple solution, it has the potential to dramatically increase the class gap. That's not a good thing.[/QUOTE]UBI won't close the class gap at all, I don't know why you thought I was asserting something so ridiculously stupid. What it would do is place a hard floor on how far the lower class can fall, but it won't make the lower class go away at all. As for the price of goods and services that's entirely subject to market forces, I doubt it would lead to an increase in costs. I'm not sure [I]what[/I] would make that happen outside of every business owner rubbing their hands together and cackling madly, but since we don't live in Captain Planet's universe I don't think we need to worry about that. Do note I said gut, not abolish, some services and systems would survive that purge. Do I trust the current government or the incoming government to do that? No, I don't think I do. I'd like to believe though that somebody, somewhere could come up with a viable plan to push this forward because we [I]do[/I] need it sooner rather than later.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51344688]If technological progress that greatly increases our productivity leads to people having their life ruined then maybe that's an indicator of how absurd a society where living a decent life depends on being employed is.[/QUOTE] The fact production is tied to something good already screams something fucked.

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;51344972]UBI won't close the class gap at all, I don't know why you thought I was asserting something so ridiculously stupid. What it would do is place a hard floor on how far the lower class can fall, but it won't make the lower class go away at all. As for the price of goods and services that's entirely subject to market forces, I doubt it would lead to an increase in costs. I'm not sure [I]what[/I] would make that happen outside of every business owner rubbing their hands together and cackling madly, but since we don't live in Captain Planet's universe I don't think we need to worry about that. Do note I said gut, not abolish, some services and systems would survive that purge. Do I trust the current government or the incoming government to do that? No, I don't think I do. I'd like to believe though that somebody, somewhere could come up with a viable plan to push this forward because we [I]do[/I] need it sooner rather than later.[/QUOTE] Dude, I'm not saying that you thought that it would close the class gap. I didn't say that. I said people like to think that, and many do. For both our sake please don't be so quick to assume attack I don't disagree with the need for a UBI in fact I support it but I think my worry that the market will respond with an increase in prices is well-reasoned. I can think of a few situations in my country where that outcome would be quite likely

Well, looks like I got into the entertainment business at the right time.

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51345047]Dude, I'm not saying that you thought that it would close the class gap. I didn't say that. I said people like to think that, and many do. For both our sake please don't be so quick to assume attack I don't disagree with the need for a UBI in fact I support it but I think my worry that the market will respond with an increase in prices is well-reasoned. I can think of a few situations in my country where that outcome would be quite likely[/QUOTE] The whole "UBI will increase costs!!" sounds a lot like "Minimum wage will increase costs!!" Isn't one counter argument for the latter that with more people having more money available they'll be able to spend more and thus businesses make more money? Especially since we have so many different welfare programs suppose to fight poverty and their doing a pretty shit job at it. There is no need to gut these programs, but maybe try consolidating them.

[QUOTE=1legmidget;51344698]Basic income when?[/QUOTE] Should've been fucking yesterday

[QUOTE=killerteacup;51345047]Dude, I'm not saying that you thought that it would close the class gap. I didn't say that. I said people like to think that, and many do. For both our sake please don't be so quick to assume attack I don't disagree with the need for a UBI in fact I support it but I think my worry that the market will respond with an increase in prices is well-reasoned. I can think of a few situations in my country where that outcome would be quite likely[/QUOTE]I wasn't assuming you were attacking me, I just thought you were including me in that "people" and responded accordingly; it's not a big deal. I think the market will respond appropriately but even in the event that prices increase the UBI should be flexible to meet minimum living standards, we could actually do away with minimum wage (a strong selling point for the system) but use the UBI to follow the price of necessities and shift accordingly. Hiking the price of, oh, shoes would cause a hike in UBI payout accordingly. Unless literally everyone wants an insanely devalued currency then I don't see it getting out of hand. Combined with initiatives for the promotion of small businesses it could actually make the market hyper-competitive, [I]any[/I] fluctuation in price might cause the loss of a customer base almost overnight since the competition just appeared out of nowhere. Zoning laws might get in the way but I think with a change in how we view drones legally, we might be able to shift to delivery-only home businesses founded by people entirely on the UBI or with a job for supplemental income. I think if there ever was an environment for the invisible hand to keep people in check, it's that, and we [I]could[/I] have it and the social services so people can feel comfortable taking those risks. [editline]9th November 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=LtKyle2;51345088]Especially since we have so many different welfare programs suppose to fight poverty and their doing a pretty shit job at it. There is no need to gut these programs, but maybe try consolidating them.[/QUOTE]Yes, this is probably a much better way to go rather than downsizing and seeing which ones to cut. Keeping people safe from tumbling into homelessness and complete financial ruin is the best way to have a capitalistic market, they'll take risks and are willing to vote with their wallet more often than not when they're not struggling financially.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;51344674]We told you this.[/QUOTE] It got drowned out in the constant: "you're stupid, racist, sexist, homophobic, bad, ignorant and monster" rhetoric that was spammed here and over the last year.

[QUOTE=Vasili;51345322]It got drowned out in the constant: "you're stupid, racist, sexist, homophobic, bad, ignorant and monster" rhetoric that was spammed here and over the last year.[/QUOTE] I don't think I once called anyone racist, sexist, or homophobic but you do have to have some ignorance about how economics works to think that Trump is going to negotiate a better trade deal with China and suddenly manufacturing jobs will come back.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;51344705]Globalisation also cannot be stopped. Stop trying to avoid it. The birth of the Information age basically assures that the world is going to be wholly interconnected, making accessing cheap labour abroad easier than starting a whole new factory or whatever in your home country. This is the nature of networks such as the Internet, it's a one-way street unless you want to actually crash your entire fucking country like NK.[/QUOTE]That's really pessimistic, and I have to disagree with you. The TPP and NAFTA, something I know you're against just as much as a lot of people in this subforum, was a result of globalism and said ideologies. Just because the current political trend is dominating the world makes it okay all of a sudden? Sure, it's a powerful movement, but that doesn't mean you can't fight back against it. We could at least try.

[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;51345337]That's really pessimistic, and I have to disagree with you. The TPP and NAFTA, something I know you're against just as much as everyone in this subforum, was a result of globalism and said ideologies. Just because the current political trend is dominating the world makes it okay all of a sudden? Sure, it's a powerful movement, but that doesn't mean you can't fight back against it. We could at least try.[/QUOTE] NAFTA was good for my country and yours

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51345338]NAFTA was good for my country and yours[/QUOTE]In what way? I can't think of a few good things it did for my family or friends. In fact, a lot of manufacturing jobs in my state were lost because of it. And it's not just that. Even if NAFTA was abolished, it wouldn't do anything because of the availability of cheap labor.