Games that are set in past cultures that were sexist were made sexist by the men that wrote the story.
GTA and Saint's Row are sexist and not satire
okay
here we go
please keep arms and legs inside the car at all times
herewegoagain.jpg
Those eyebrows oh my god.
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;45124173]Games that are set in past cultures that were sexist were made sexist by the men that wrote the story.
GTA and Saint's Row are sexist and not satire
okay[/QUOTE]
You can be a female superhero who can kick aliens' faces in while wubbing out with the dubstep gun in SRIV, what the hell is this girl talking about?!
I wonder if anyone is going to bother watching the video before the stupid childish arguments begin. Not that she actually makes good videos, just wondering
[QUOTE=DaysBefore;45124225]I wonder if anyone is going to bother watching the video before the stupid childish arguments begin. Not that she actually makes good videos, just wondering[/QUOTE]
that's already happened
I don't like her point of the violence against women in open world games, I mean she only focuses on the killing of woman and not the fact you can kill anyone in an open world game.
[QUOTE=Aska49;45124253]that's already happened[/QUOTE]
What, She is using games that take a satirical view on life and the media as examples of deeply rooted problems with sexism and women in video games. I mean yes there is sexism in GTA and Saint's Row but the point of GTA and Saint's row isn't to be a simulation of real life, but rather a satirical exaggeration of the world today and it's underlying issues from the point of view of a criminal who is an exaggeration of crime life.
She brings up some valid points with some of the other games yes, but it brings the potency of her points down when she fails to understand the social messages behind the games she criticizes
Just because a game contains sexism doesnt mean it's trying to reinforce the ideas behind sexism.
Can't believe I'm actually doing this but hopefully this'll stop this from going to the shitter immediatley but if you watch it, almost right away she says " it's possible to be critical of some aspects of a piece of media, while still finding other parts valuable or enjoyable". Before we all go apeshit here she's basically saying " this is some stuff I don't like but other bits I'm fine with ". Also before we pull out arguments against her lets keep in mind that almost all arguments we're probably thinking of have been brought up in every thread regarding her.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;45124200]Those eyebrows oh my god.[/QUOTE]
She looks like she's in a state of perpetual surprise
[QUOTE=A_Pigeon;45124341]What, She is using games that take a satirical view on life and the media as examples of deeply rooted problems with sexism and women in video games. I mean yes there is sexism in GTA and Saint's Row but the point of GTA and Saint's row isn't to be a simulation of real life, but rather a satirical exaggeration of the world today and it's underlying issues from the point of view of a criminal who is an exaggeration of crime life.
She brings up some valid points with some of the other games yes, but it brings the potency of her points down when she fails to understand the social messages behind the games she criticizes
Just because a game contains sexism doesnt mean it's trying to reinforce the ideas behind sexism.[/QUOTE]
her point isn't that those games are trying to be sexist and succeeding, but they reinforce stereotypes and utilize tired tropes all the same whether they're trying to or not.
i don't even agree with her on a lot of stuff but the individual context of each game isn't really important to the issue she's highlighting. you have to look at those games in the context of the rest of the industry and the content most of the huge popular games have in them.
i wasn't singling you out or anything i've always had problems with parts of her videos but i think a lot of people miss her main point (which isn't that games and the developers are sexist and doing this on purpose)
It's concerning if prostitution was the only type of female role in those games, but games like Fable have varying roles. I thought that prostitution was a type of joke/easter egg, games like GTA V don't advertise the feature and there's nothing special gained from it.
It's probably not making sense to me since I'm six minutes in, I'll continue watching the rest.
While there are points to be made about women's representation in video games, I don't like how far she nitpicks. Yes, you can exclusively target women - you can also exclusively target men, lampposts, birds, vehicles and watermelons
[QUOTE=CoolKingKaso;45124530]It's concerning if prostitution was the only type of female role in those games, but games like Fable have varying roles. I thought that prostitution was a type of joke/easter egg, games like GTA V don't advertise the feature and there's nothing special gained from it.
It's probably not making sense to me since I'm six minutes in, I'll continue watching the rest.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm thirteen minutes in, so far she's got somewhat rational observations towards it though in a few examples she seems to just be observing it skin deep. I.E. The Brothel scene in Max Payne 3 wasn't to enforce a fantasy or objectify women, it was to fit in with the main theme the game was building about that area in general. As well as with Bioshock, where it was more a commentary on morality then it was aforementioned.
[QUOTE=Aska49;45124436] but i think a lot of people miss her main point (which isn't that games and the developers are sexist and doing this on purpose)[/QUOTE]
What's the main point of them? I'm not arguing it's just that I'm having trouble actually finding it. In all the videos of her's that I've watched she just seems to be making observations, sometimes irrational, and just saying they're bad.
I find it difficult to take someone seriously when they disable comments and ratings on all of their material.
[QUOTE=geogzm;45124611]While there are points to be made about women's representation in video games, I don't like how far she nitpicks. Yes, you can exclusively target women - you can also exclusively target men, lampposts, birds, vehicles and watermelons[/QUOTE]
are you for real equating the diversity of female characters in games to the diversity of inanimate objects, and putting them on the same level?
put two and two together.
[editline]16th June 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=unrezt;45124621]I find it difficult to take someone seriously when they disable comments and ratings on all of their material.[/QUOTE]
youtube comments are universally hailed as the worst and most useless thing to ever exist unless somebody i don't like disables them, right?
youtube has an archaic and fucking terrible method of organizing comments. it's impossible to have the thread-based type of discussion you can have on reddit or 4chan or here in a youtube comment section. it just doesn't work, and since there's barely any moderation you can't ban morons in youtube comments, so any of those hundred thousand viewers can leave a meaningless comment saying "youre gay" and not get in trouble.
and wow, look at how much your freedom of speech on the internet is being stopped now that you can't leave a comment in an area where your feedbacek would be fucking buried. if only there were at least 10 other websites where you could talk about this video series...
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45124630]are you for real equating the diversity of female characters in games to the diversity of inanimate objects, and putting them on the same level?
put two and two together.[/QUOTE]
ahahaha oh my god
i'm pissing about do you really think i see women as inanimate objects or something
no offense like this is just a down to earth observation but i can see why you have your reputation
[QUOTE=Mr.95;45124355]Can't believe I'm actually doing this but hopefully this'll stop this from going to the shitter immediatley but if you watch it, almost right away she says " it's possible to be critical of some aspects of a piece of media, while still finding other parts valuable or enjoyable".[/QUOTE]
And this is something I strongly disagree with. She undercuts her message by pandering to white straight males, effectively telling them its okay to enjoy the sexist, racist garbage that pollutes 99.9% of this awful industry. There should be no compromises when it comes to media promoting social ills and everyone involved in creating them needs to be held responsible and accountable for the messages, intended or otherwise.
[QUOTE=geogzm;45124652]ahahaha oh my god
i'm pissing about do you really think i see women as inanimate objects or something
no offense like this is just a down to earth observation but i can see why you have your reputation[/QUOTE]
because the type of mindset you have is garbage. it's dismissive and deflective, and it's a problem.
like, you're equating something that's important to something stupid. it's just like going into those trans threads here and going "what if i want to identify as (hyperbolized garbage)" it doesn't contribute anything to anything, and you're not revealing some secret world of information to the general public.
would be an OK analogy if you followed up with a real argument but you just kind of left it at that. yeah, sure, you can nitpick lampposts or watermelons in games, but what's the point in even bringing that up other than to just dismiss other people's points about representation in games? because if you wanna play that game, video games, and everything about them, are useless garbage that nobody should care about at all. why even post on this forum or talk about your favorite games from E3 if these games will only have a marginal effect on your life?
[QUOTE=LurkyLurker;45124655]And this is something I strongly disagree with. She undercuts her message by pandering to white straight males, effectively telling them its okay to enjoy the sexist, racist garbage that pollutes 99.9% of this awful industry. There should be no compromises when it comes to media promoting social ills and everyone involved in creating them needs to be held responsible and accountable for the messages, intended or otherwise.[/QUOTE]
It's called Doublethink.
[QUOTE=Aska49;45124436]her point isn't that those games are trying to be sexist and succeeding, but they reinforce stereotypes and utilize tired tropes all the same whether they're trying to or not.
i don't even agree with her on a lot of stuff but the individual context of each game isn't really important to the issue she's highlighting. you have to look at those games in the context of the rest of the industry and the content most of the huge popular games have in them.
i wasn't singling you out or anything i've always had problems with parts of her videos but i think a lot of people miss her main point (which isn't that games and the developers are sexist and doing this on purpose)[/QUOTE]
it seems you as well have missed the point
How can I demonstrate a critical parody/exaggeration of the real world best? By using stereotypes, generalizations, and really over stretching these stereotypes that are used in the real world commonly without being thought about much. GTA does this. It takes real world stereotypes, and blows them up so you can look at them and see them for what they are.
But I guess that trying to demonstrate your critical of something is best done by blatantly and constantly saying "we're against this thing"
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45124689]because the type of mindset you have is garbage. it's dismissive and deflective, and it's a problem.
like, you're equating something that's important to something stupid. it's just like going into those trans threads here and going "what if i want to identify as (hyperbolized garbage)" it doesn't contribute anything to anything, and you're not revealing some secret world of information to the general public.[/QUOTE]
yes but i'm not belittling women or men (who are also in the mock list FYI)
it's painless humour just showing that she could make that point about any factor in a game, whether a player targets whoever or not is down to who they are
i saw a guy lynch a bunch of black ragdolls in gmod once, does that make garry racist?
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;45124630]are you for real equating the diversity of female characters in games to the diversity of inanimate objects, and putting them on the same level?
put two and two together.[/QUOTE]
He also included men in his example you fucking dolt. You do the exact fucking thing Sarkesian does, you only look at the superficial, the outer layers. Rather than try to understand a point you nitpick the wording.
Lets take Watch Dogs as an example of what he meant. You can go around murdering women and only women to your heart's content, but you can also kill men, Jews, animal rights activists, or furries. It doesn't matter because that is the player's impetus, not something encouraged by the game, just like you can spend all your time knocking over lamp posts or garbage cans.
But no, instead of understanding his point its easier to selectively nitpick his words and ignore his intent.
I get what she's trying to say and in some sense she is right (especially with the [I]exotic spices[/I] comment) but failing to recognize A. good examples of women enjoying their sexuality for themselves, B. that sex is not always intimate, and C. women are [B]not[/B] the only gender sexually objectified/treated as disposable in video games makes her argument completely one sided.
women are misrepresented a lot in videogames but the fact that she's pointing out that the ability to kill women just as equally as you can kill a man in a game is somehow misogynistic - but this just viewpoint just does a triple lutz because that's making them further unequal by treating them differently instead of working on ending the misrepresentation
[editline]soup[/editline]
wanna explain the dumb? women are being better represented by some devs iirc - save your opinions about the game itself, but the latest CoD is reported to integrate women as they would be in real life rather than just having an all-male cast, so if you wanna keep all-around equality, you'll include every aspect of that - how is being able to kill women alongside men a bad thing for equality?
The first third of the video was full of perfectly valid grievances, but when she started talking about how you can attack female NPCs with little consequence and how in some games you can pick up their dead bodies, etc. while completely ignoring the fact that the same goes for ALL NPCs, regardless of sex or race, she started to lose me a bit. I could really fill the spin she was putting on it by making it seem like these things you do to female NPCs apply only to female NPCs.
Finished it. It's kind of eh...it's like expecting the Dark Fantasy genre to omit the violence, politics, and sexuality.
I see where she's coming from, she's criticizing the fact that players have the ability to perform those actions. It's in adult-oriented sandbox games, it only occurs if the player insists on doing it.
She does acknowledge that men are disposable and sexualized too, but she mentions that it's not serious since they have multiple roles. It's weird considering that Fable II and Hitman:Absolution had female NPCs in important roles. I'm guessing that she's concerned how those important NPCs are a few in number, I'll just wait for the second part.
What is so bad about women as background decoration? Women have beautiful bodies
[IMG]http://static.bilder-welten.net/pics/64/705964.jpg[/IMG]
very informative but i don't think this needs another part because she already made her point and i feel the only thing she'll do in part 2 is going "look!, more games that has disposable women" while saying the same things in part 1
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