• Catalonia parliament votes to start breakaway process from Spain, but Spain vows to block it
    19 replies, posted
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/09/us-spain-catalonia-idUSKCN0SY15V20151109[/url] [quote]Catalonia's regional government on Monday voted in favor of a resolution to split from Spain, launching a so-called roadmap towards independence which the central government in Madrid has vowed to block. The declaration on secession, the first step which pro-independence parties hope will lead to the northeastern region splitting from Spain within 18 months, was backed by a majority in the regional parliament. Parties favoring independence from Spain won a majority of seats in the Catalan regional election in September. The Spanish constitution does not allow any region to break away, however, and the center-right government of Spanish premier Mariano Rajoy, facing a general election in December, has said it will immediately seek to block the resolution in the courts.[/quote]
Spain's just mad because their economy is shit and Catalonia doesn't want a part of it. (Catalonia is iirc, the largest economic region in Spain)
[QUOTE=draugur;49082366]Spain's just mad because their economy is shit and Catalonia doesn't want a part of it.[/QUOTE] Don't be too harsh, spainful for them
Even if it doesn't affects me directly, I think its good. Catalonia was originally a separate kingdom until it was conquered. The Spanish turned that victory into a celebratory day, something that pissed the Catalonians because they were reminded each year of their defeat. Spain is very fragmented, each autonomous region is unique in its own way and some are way more different than the others. Catalonia is one of that cases. All the times that I have went to Barcelona I have seen that most of the people talk in Catalonian and in general it gives you the feel of being in another culture and even country. They don't have any problem with the Spanish people tho, the moment I told them I didn't knew their language they gladly changed to the Spanish language.
Catalonia is a lovely area of the world. One of things that stuck in my mind when I traveled there was the amount of Catalonian flags hanging from apartments around Barcelona. Basically every second balcony had one.
[QUOTE=draugur;49082366]Spain's just mad because their economy is shit and Catalonia doesn't want a part of it. (Catalonia is iirc, the largest economic region in Spain)[/QUOTE] Because regions like Catalonia and Vasque Country get tons of benefit and public funding and can afford stronger industry and shit. And they get those benefits because their local govs are always pressuring using independence as leverage. "GIBE MONI OR WE INDEPENDENCE", and then they get money, investments, tourism, etc Also the vote is a big political circus and not the proper way to go about this, mostly because it's actually hiding deeper and more important problems in the region, but hey, we're used to this shit edit: I'm all for democracy and think this should be voted, but not like this and not while higher ups in the Catalonia gov are being charged for corruption and families are being thrown out on the street, looking for food on garbage bins and there's 20%~ of families without a job or income.
[QUOTE=Axsisel;49082379]Even if it doesn't affects me directly, I think its good. Catalonia was originally a separate kingdom until it was conquered.[/QUOTE] I thought it was inherited through a cunning mix of inbreeding and marriage? I mean the crowns of Castile and Aragon have been de facto ruled by the same sovereign since the 16th century.
[QUOTE=draugur;49082366]Spain's just mad because their economy is shit and Catalonia doesn't want a part of it. (Catalonia is iirc, the largest economic region in Spain)[/QUOTE] It's got most industry, they pay the highest taxes, and they're only the third richest autonomous community in Spain. I used to live there, and honestly there's zero tell of it being any better off than other parts of Spain. [editline]9th November 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;49082497]I thought it was inherited through a cunning mix of inbreeding and marriage? I mean the crowns of Castile and Aragon have been de facto ruled by the same sovereign since the 16th century.[/QUOTE] Catalonia has always had royal ties to the Kingdom of Aragón. But I really don't know how its past is relevant in any way.
[QUOTE=draugur;49082366]Spain's just mad because their economy is shit and Catalonia doesn't want a part of it. (Catalonia is iirc, the largest economic region in Spain)[/QUOTE] Ya but they have good reason, its a rich region of the country wanting to leave and take a lot of the wealth with them, its no different from the scottoand vote when they claimed they were going to take all Britain's oil fields with them
get fucked Mas, you ain't gonna get shit spain is fucked, but an independent catalonia would be even more fucked all industries are going to leave since you won't have the EU people won't get the small EU benefits either It's shit like this that makes want to move to galicia, although those also want independence, so i guess I will move to switzerland if this passes
I don't think they are doing this as a leverage tactic as others are suggesting. Every time I've been to that area it was always quite prominent that they are a different t culture and have been wanting independence for a while
[QUOTE=James xX;49083063]I don't think they are doing this as a leverage tactic as others are suggesting. Every time I've been to that area it was always quite prominent that they are a different t culture and have been wanting independence for a while[/QUOTE] Texas also wants independence and celebrates their unique culture but theyd fall apart in about a week cutoff from federal funds, having to secure their own boarder, and try to govern themselves.
[QUOTE=Sableye;49083187]Texas also wants independence and celebrates their unique culture but theyd fall apart in about a week cutoff from federal funds, having to secure their own boarder, and try to govern themselves.[/QUOTE] Texas could probably be independent, unlike Quebec.
Meanwhile, two new deputies got the buttons mixed and pressed the wrong button [URL="http://www.elmundo.es/cataluna/2015/11/09/56409649ca4741ee4f8b46a4.html"](spanish source)[/URL] :v:
I'm sick of this to be honest. Let them have their independence, let them fend for themselves in the international markets. I'm honestly eager to see how they will pull this shit and manage to keep the welfare state. They racked 40 billion in debt from '95 until now, with pro-catalonian parties in charge, then the housing bubble and the international crisis set in, unemployement went up while Income went down, and expenditures kept being the same or higher, since the state now needs to take care of those unemployed. They were running into an ever increasing deficit back then, so they cut spending to fix it (for example, catalonian budget was 4.4 billion smaller in 2012 than in 2010). So they tried to tone spending down, thinking "I need to expend less than what I have, or else my deficit will keep running up, and that means I'm bad managing my finances", but then they hit bumps on the road like govt. workers refusing pay cuts and such, so the solution they came up with was spinning that line of reasoning and start thinking "I need more money to keep my quality of life same as it was before", so they started shouting "We give more money to Spain than what they give us, so they are stealing from us, we need to go independent and then we'll be able to pay for everything". (Note that I'm aware that an independent Catalonia isn't by any means a new thing, but this rhetoric and the media manipulation attached to it is a fairly recent thing). That might work if it wasn't because Catalonia profits big time of trading with the rest of Spain, a benefit that would dissapear if they went outside of the country and the EU, given the tariffs that would be set in place, also the corporations paying taxes there that would leave given said trade barriers, the deficit of the catalonian government with the social security that the rest of spain gets to pay for (Last week they announced that they had no money to pay to the pharmacies, and it's not the first time, so the central govt. will have to bail their ass), and the fact that they have more rent per capita than the rest of the regions, a thing that happens to Madrid and Baleares too, so it kind of makes sense to compensate given that we are a single nation. All of this is something obvious that the politicians refuse to acknowledge, and what's worse, that part of the catalonian people refuse to see. And leaving the economic issues aside, to sum up my feelings about the national integrity, if I may call it so, let me quote Ortega y Gasset (excuse me for any inaccuracies): "What is particularist nationalism? It is a poorly defined feeling, of variable intensity, but with a clear intention, that manages to grab a hold of a collectivity and makes it desire with a burning passion to live apart from the rest of the peoples or collectivities. While these hope for the contrary, mind you: to adscribe, to integrate, to merge in a great historical unity, in that radical common destiny that is a great nation, those other peoples feel, for a mysterious and fatal predisposition, the desire of being exempt, intact of any fusion, secluded and absorbed in themselves. And we can't say that it is, in a smaller scale, the same feeling that inspires the great nationalisms, those of the great nations, no; it is a feeling with an opposite sign. It would be false to say that we spaniards have been living dominated by the ambition of not wanting to be french, or not wanting to be english. No; that negative feeling didn't exist inside of us, precisely because we were possesed by the formidable passion of being spanish, of making a great nation and getting dissolved in it. Thats why, out of the plurality of disperse peoples that we had in the iberian peninsula, this compact spain came to life. In contrast, the particularist collectivity comes, of course, from a defensive feeling, from a strange and terrible hyperesthesia against every contact and fusion; it's a desire to live apart. That's why the particularist nationalism could be called, more expressively, (sic) "apartismo" (apart-ism)."
All of this had to happen just before the general elections. Watch as the far right wins again thanks to this for looking like "the true patriot defenders". Meanwhile, more corruption news keeps poping up, but who cares about that when all the mass media is with the "muh country" topic.
Catalonia's culture is so independent, that it amazes me.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;49083392]Catalonia's culture is so independent, that it amazes me.[/QUOTE] So independent that they have [URL="http://www.inh.cat/"]their own version of history[/URL]! (That's the Institute of New History, yep, that's its name, not an orwellian name in the slightest, and they do research and publicate studies saying that Cristobal Colon, Erasmus of Rotterdam, Da Vinci and Miguel de Cervantes, to name a few, were catalonians, and that evil, evil spain has been keen on appropiating their history and suppresing Catalonia since the times of Fernando and Isabel. Think jet fuel can't melt steel beams? That the elders of Zion are still in power with help from reptilians and the illuminati? Boy, do we have the perfect place for you to work!)
People will only accept independence if it's good for the people, who cares about culture if you can't feed your family? The Catalan Republic will never enter the EU, which means, less subsidys.
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