SNP Government planning half a billion pounds of NHS cutbacks, leaked dossier reveals. - Polidicks

[quote] SNP Government planning half a billion pounds of NHS cutbacks, leaked dossier reveals Scottish health boards are being asked to make up to £450m in savings over the next two years, a secret document leaked by a whistleblower shows[h=2]The SNP Government is planning almost half a billion pounds worth of cutbacks from Scotland's NHS according to a controversial leaked document.[/h]A report understood to have been distributed to Scotland's health boards said that over the next two years up to £450m of additional "savings" must be found. The secret document also warns that health care executives need to "urgently" establish priorities and says "significant changes" must be rapidly implemented. Johann Lamont, Scottish Labour leader, said the revelations showed the SNP has a "secret agenda" to cut health care spending after the referendum. A Scottish Government spokesperson said the document was part of "regular discussions" among health care leaders, adding that the SNP administration was "protecting and increasing" Scotland's NHS budget. The dossier, obtained and distributed by the Labour Party, was leaked by an unnamed whistleblower concerned with how the SNP was portraying the NHS in the referendum campaign. The anonymous source said there were "major problems" with Scotland's NHS and claimed Yes camp suggestions the UK Government is to blame were "not true". It is understood the leaked paper was co-written by the Health Board Finance Directors and the Financial Director for Health Directorate in Scottish Government. The document warned that "baseline funding increases" and "financial cost pressures" had created "significant challenges" for Scottish health boards. A total of between £400m and £450m of savings in addition to those currently being implemented is needed to hit targets, according to the document. The savings needed were described as "significant" and larger than previous years, with the paper demanding "urgent and collaborative action". The revelations come with the Yes campaign repeatedly claiming that the only way to protect the NHS from major cuts is to vote for independence on Thursday. The claims have infuriated the pro-UK camp, which has branded the warnings the biggest lie of the referendum campaign. While the SNP says any cut to the English health budget would hit the amount of money given to Scotland, control of the NHS is totally controlled by Holyrood. Furthermore, no Westminster party proposes reducing health care spending. Johann Lamont, Scottish Labour Leader, said: "These papers show that the SNP have a secret agenda to cut health spending after the referendum. Alex Salmond was elected on a manifesto to protect health spending and now he is planning cuts but has decided not to tell anyone until after Thursday's vote. “The SNP lied about NHS privatisation. They lied when they said they didn’t have the powers to protect the NHS from cuts. Now they are deceiving the people of Scotland about plans to cut health spending after polling day. Its clear that the SNP cannot be trusted with our NHS." Alex Neil, Scotland's health minister, said: "We’ve protected Scotland’s NHS from the Tories cuts, and with independence we can ensure that it is never again under threat from Westminster’s dangerous obsession with austerity. He added: "“To ensure we can continue to develop the NHS it’s important that NHS boards regularly discuss their future plans to inform budget discussions with Scottish Government officials, and to identify how we will continue to deliver quality care and treatment." [/quote] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11098624/SNP-Government-planning-half-a-billion-pounds-of-NHS-cutbacks-leaked-dossier-reveals.html[/url]

The guy who leaked these documents is clearly voting no.

Well, I guess the brits won't have the best healthcare in the world anymore. What a shame.

[QUOTE=Reshy;45994192]Well, I guess the brits won't have the best healthcare in the world anymore. What a shame.[/QUOTE] More like Scotland will have drastically worse healthcare than the UK.

[QUOTE=Reshy;45994192]Well, I guess the brits won't have the best healthcare in the world anymore. What a shame.[/QUOTE] Says the guy living in a Country which cannot even pass the most basic universal health care system in the world (and I am not what flagdog says)

[QUOTE=Reshy;45994192]Well, I guess the brits won't have the best healthcare in the world anymore. What a shame.[/QUOTE] No this is a document suggesting the scottish national party are trying to privatise the nhs, this is something they are criticising the british government for. Any word on if the leak is genuine or not? It seems very convenient and odd for something in the SNP to shoot it down while they have their greatest chance at success. You are right though, our healthcare is being eroded steadily. Soon we'll have have shit tier and super expensive like you guys in the US.

It's interesting how the SNP is actually appealing to some of the same populist sentiment as UKIP. They both paint the big parties as lying bastards whose promises (to devolve more powers/hold an EU referendum) you can't trust. They both paint themselves as the good guys who never lie and are in touch with the people. They even share a common talking point - how many times have you heard them both dismiss the government's promises and say "The only way to [i]ensure[/i] (an EU referendum/more powers for Scotland) is to (vote UKIP/vote Yes)." Just interesting how similar their strategies are despite being completely ideologically opposed to each other.

[QUOTE=fruxodaily;45994204]Says the guy living in a Country which cannot even pass the most basic universal health care system in the world (and I am not what flagdog says)[/QUOTE] What an absolute non sequitur.

[QUOTE=smurfy;45994225]It's interesting how the SNP is actually appealing to some of the same populist sentiment as UKIP. They both paint the big parties as lying bastards whose promises (to devolve more powers/hold an EU referendum) you can't trust. They both paint themselves as the good guys who never lie and are in touch with the people. They even share a common talking point - how many times have you heard them both dismiss the government's promises and say "The only way to [I]ensure[/I] (an EU referendum/more powers for Scotland) is to (vote UKIP/vote Yes)." Just interesting how similar their strategies are despite being completely ideologically opposed to each other.[/QUOTE] One claims to be left wing, the other right, no? I think the left by default is popular to a youth vote and popular mindset in general; right wing is for grumpy old men nazis per say.

I wonder how many points the yes vote will lose over this.

[QUOTE=Vasili;45994277]One claims to be left wing, the other right, no? I think the left by default is popular to a youth vote and popular mindset in general; right wing is for grumpy old men nazis per say.[/QUOTE] UKIP and SNP seem pretty "left liberally", where as UKIP is right and SNP seems left. I say left liberally for SNP's claimed want for a reorganisation of politics to be bottom up, and left liberally for UKIP since they seem to be quite libertarianist. UKIP has quite alot of younger supporters. It's managed to get the support of the conservatives who want more radical privatisation and to xenophobic would be labour or bnp voters. [editline]16th September 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=download;45994368]I wonder how many points the yes vote will lose over this.[/QUOTE] Enough for no to win, just before w see if the document was real or not.

[QUOTE=Vasili;45994121][url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11098624/SNP-Government-planning-half-a-billion-pounds-of-NHS-cutbacks-leaked-dossier-reveals.html[/url][/QUOTE] Nice of the article to mention the reasoning behind that, isn't it? Scotland is getting a shit deal in the near future - The Barnett formula is being scrapped, but as a nice hand-me-back, we get to spend tax money raised in Scotland. Sounds great, right? Except, its not. The only tax they get to spend is that raised from the citizens of Scotland, not the businesses. The Barnett formula gave us a proportional to population cut-back of tax which was still less than if we were able to tax the business in Scotland (It basically means the highly lucrative Renewables and Oil industries are taxed in England, instead. It also ignored the fact that Scotland, on average, raises more tax per head than the rest of the UK). The SNP knows that if we stay in the Union, we are going to be haemorrhaging money within years as the Union shafts us with a "fairer" deal, so in order to prevent us having to privatise our NHS out of sheer necessity, cuts are necessary. Remaining in the Union puts the SNP in between a rock and a hard place where they will have to continue the socialised services we demand, but with even less money to do so. Or we could vote Independence.

[QUOTE=Craigewan;45994537]Nice of the article to mention the reasoning behind that, isn't it? Scotland is getting a shit deal in the near future - The Barnett formula is being scrapped, but as a nice hand-me-back, we get to spend tax money raised in Scotland. Sounds great, right? Except, its not. The only tax they get to spend is that raised from the citizens of Scotland, not the businesses. The Barnett formula gave us a proportional to population cut-back of tax which was still less than if we were able to tax the business in Scotland (It basically means the highly lucrative Renewables and Oil industries are taxed in England, instead. It also ignored the fact that Scotland, on average, raises more tax per head than the rest of the UK). The SNP knows that if we stay in the Union, we are going to be haemorrhaging money within years as the Union shafts us with a "fairer" deal, so in order to prevent us having to privatise our NHS out of sheer necessity, cuts are necessary. Remaining in the Union puts the SNP in between a rock and a hard place where they will have to continue the socialised services we demand, but with even less money to do so. Or we could vote Independence.[/QUOTE] So SNP isn't keeping quiet at the massive cuts they need to now take?

[QUOTE=Raskol;45994600]So SNP isn't keeping quiet at the massive cuts they need to now take?[/QUOTE] Even if they do its better than privatisation and the end of universal healthcare.

isn't this whole story basically what the snp has to do in the event of a no vote?

[QUOTE=Marzipas;45994615]isn't this whole story basically what the snp has to do in the event of a no vote?[/QUOTE] I thought the British Nhs and Scottish nhs are two separate entities

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45994609]Even if they do its better than privatisation and the end of universal healthcare.[/QUOTE] Who's ending privatization in the UK?

[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;45994634]I thought the British Nhs and Scottish nhs are two separate entities[/QUOTE] the amount of money we get is provided by westminster, and there is a lot of uncertainty about our future budgets in a no vote

[QUOTE=Marzipas;45994615]isn't this whole story basically what the snp has to do in the event of a no vote?[/QUOTE] Basically, but as is common with the Telegraph, they put so much spin on it the centrifugal force would rip apart someone standing in the centre of it.

Proof once again that Alex Salmond only cares about being "the man who gave Scotland its independence", and doesn't give a **** how much damage this will do to Scotland. He has lied at every step of the way, lied about the oil, lied about the currency, now lied about the NHS...

[QUOTE=Raskol;45994636]Who's ending privatization in the UK?[/QUOTE] No... We currently have (mostly) publically funded universal healthcare. If you get ill you can get treatment, no matter what. Privatisation would result in the end of universal healthcare, like in america, if you cannot afford treatment and don't have insurance then when you are ill you get thrown out of hospital to suffer/die. The Tories are slowly eroding our universal healthcare, privatising parts like some non emergency ambulances, food, cleaning and undermining its effectiveness, hospitals are closing down and funds are being cut. They are ruining the NHS. Many, myself included, believe this is a ploy to totally privatise it or weaken it to the point where it no longer works and they can say "hey look at this! NHS is shit! get insurance instead!" Then once we all rely on insurance and private healthcare they got us by the balls and the profiteering can begin.

[QUOTE=AlexConnor;45994689]Proof once again that Alex Salmond only cares about being "the man who gave Scotland its independence", and doesn't give a **** how much damage this will do to Scotland. He has lied at every step of the way, lied about the oil, lied about the currency, now lied about the NHS...[/QUOTE] Except this is about what will HAVE to happen if we stay in the Union.

I hope this doesn't hurt the yes campaign...

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;45994726]I hope this doesn't hurt the yes campaign...[/QUOTE] I suspect it will, because the media is trying to spin this as if it is something that will happen no matter what. Which is, of course, deliberate. The BT media campaign has always been about lies, misrepresentation, smearing and generally underhanded tactics.

[QUOTE=Craigewan;45994783]I suspect it will, because the media is trying to spin this as if it is something that will happen no matter what. Which is, of course, deliberate. The BT media campaign has always been about lies, misrepresentation, smearing and generally underhanded tactics.[/QUOTE] Its sad how the BBC has declined. Once watched by people the world over for its lack of bias. Now its censored and persuing an agenda. What I wouldn't give for a news source which gives truth and facts without spin and fair coverage.

[QUOTE=Craigewan;45994709]Except this is about what will HAVE to happen if we stay in the Union.[/QUOTE] And even Salmond acknowledges Scotland isn't going to be any better off at the start of independence*, so how the hell is he going to protect the NHS in case of a Yes vote? *given that "highly optimistic" is proven to be a major understatement for Salmond's financial estimates, this probably means the first few years are going to really suck...

[QUOTE=AlexConnor;45994827]And even Salmond acknowledges Scotland isn't going to be any better off at the start of independence*, so how the hell is he going to protect the NHS in case of a Yes vote? *given that "highly optimistic" is proven to be a major understatement for Salmond's financial estimates, this probably means the first few years are going to really suck...[/QUOTE] Instability after a major democratic transition into an Independent country? NO! Surely not! Say it isn't so! I'd better change my vote to a No! Of course things are very likely to be difficult at first, but it is a hell of a lot more attractive than staying in a Conservative, Eurosceptic UK.

[QUOTE=AlexConnor;45994827]And even Salmond acknowledges Scotland isn't going to be any better off at the start of independence*, so how the hell is he going to protect the NHS in case of a Yes vote? *given that "highly optimistic" is proven to be a major understatement for Salmond's financial estimates, this probably means the first few years are going to really suck...[/QUOTE] this isn't about everything being great instantly lmao are you an idiot things will be difficult for the first few years, there'll be times where you think you might have made the wrong choice, its not something that just pays off instantly.

[QUOTE=Craigewan;45994783]The BT media campaign has always been about lies, misrepresentation, smearing and generally underhanded tactics.[/QUOTE] Its funny that pro-yes people maintain that while The National Union of Journalists has been complaining that there has been significant intimidation and abuse of journalists by the Yes campaign and its supporters. [url]http://www.nuj.org.uk/news/nuj-calls-for-end-to-threats-and-intimidation-of-journalists/[/url] So if the BT media campaign has been about lies, the Yes media campaign has been about intimidation, abuse and silencing disagreeing voices.

[QUOTE=Raskol;45994600]So SNP isn't keeping quiet at the massive cuts they need to now take?[/QUOTE] I have a suspicion on this point that they announced the cutting of the Barnett Formula after the "No New Information" period of the Edinburgh Agreement kicked in, so the SNP aren't legally allowed to talk about any new consequences of a No vote and what it would mean. What they can do is prepare behind closed doors though, and they'd be fools not to start putting together contingency plans.