Homeopathy 'treatments' must be labelled to say they do not work, US government orders
36 replies, posted
[quote]
There is a huge market in the US for homeopathic remedies. In 2007 alone, it was estimated Americans spent more than $3bn on a controversial system of alternative medicine created in 1796 by Samuel Hahnemann, and which has long been dismissed by mainstream science.
Now, the US government is requiring that producers of such items ensure that if they want to claim they are effective treatments, then they need to make available the proof. Otherwise, they will need to point out that there is “no scientific evidence that the product works”.
“Homeopathy, which dates back to the late-eighteenth century, is based on the view that disease symptoms can be treated by minute doses of substances that produce similar symptoms when provided in larger doses to healthy people,” said a notice, filed earlier this month by the Federal Trade Commission.
"Many homeopathic products are diluted to such an extent that they no longer contain detectable levels of the initial substance. In general, homeopathic product claims are not based on modern scientific methods and are not accepted by modern medical experts, but homeopathy nevertheless has many adherents.”
[...]
The FTC said that a homeopathic drug claim that is not substantiated by competent and reliable scientific evidence “might not be deceptive if the advertisement or label where it appears effectively communicates that: 1) there is no scientific evidence that the product works; and 2) the product’s claims are based only on theories of homeopathy from the 1700s that are not accepted by most modern medical experts.”[/quote]
[url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/homeopathy-treatments-must-be-labelled-to-say-they-do-not-work-us-government-orders-a7429776.html[/url]
From my own experience, people who use homeopathic medicine couldn't care less if there's scientific evidence of it working.
Just what I'd expect from the people trying to turn my kids into addicts and inject nano-machines into my brain!
Nah but seriously this kind of thinking is really worrying to me, The idea that there are people out there that would chug what is basically a bottle of plain water as a remedy over seeking genuine medical treatment is just so alien to me.
It'll be good if they extend this to chiro
ok now tell my mom
I remember a video of some guy estimating the amounts of active agent based on the claimed dilution factor and concluded that there wasn't a single molecule of them in the final dose.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51409627]I remember a video of some guy estimating the amounts of active agent based on the claimed dilution factor and concluded that there wasn't a single molecule of them in the final dose.[/QUOTE]
That was probably James Randi, and he estimated that the dilution factor was equivalent of grinding up a single grain of rice, and mixing it into an amount of water the size of the entire solar system. You'd be more likely to win the lottery 25 times in a row and get struck by lightning directly on the dick 100 times in a row than to encounter a single molecule of the homeopathic agent in the actual mixture.
[QUOTE=sgman91;51409569]From my own experience, people who use homeopathic medicine couldn't care less if there's scientific evidence of it working.[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of people walking into a pharmacists, see something that looks likes medicine and buy it.
[QUOTE=download;51409667]I think a lot of people walking into a pharmacists, see something that looks likes medicine and buy it.[/QUOTE]
Here we've got general practitioners who are "specialized" in homeopathy. I don't even know how that's possible.
As a physician myself I'm 100% OK with this. If people really want to use the treatment, that's their decision to make, but they may as well know that it's basically just a placebo at best.
[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;51409839]As a physician myself I'm 100% OK with this. If people really want to use the treatment, that's their decision to make, but they may as well know that it's basically just a placebo at best.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't knowing it's a placebo prevent the placebo effect from kicking in?
[QUOTE=_Axel;51409867]Wouldn't knowing it's a placebo prevent the placebo effect from kicking in?[/QUOTE]
There are certain conditions where the placebo effect was observed even though the subjects knew they were being given a placebo. One possibility considered about the effect is that the body's own chemistry might be causing changes to mimic the effects of a medication and/or its side effects. As such this can sometimes cause problems when testing the effectiveness of new drugs in studies at our current level of research.
Edit: just to add on; Hrobjartsson and Gotzsche's studies in 2010 proved that the placebo effect's main issue in trials with binary outcomes (cure or not cure) than trials with more subjective outcomes
[QUOTE=Badballer;51409608]It'll be good if they extend this to chiro[/QUOTE]
Actual chiropractic can be great for temporary pain relief. It's not going to cure your cancer or stop your AIDS or flush out your toxins, but if you find a no-bullshit chiropractor who basically just gives you a deep massage and aligns your spine, it's fine. The ones who charge $40 for a two-minute neck crack to cure your sinus infection are bullshit artists, but there's chiropractors who don't rely on the bullshit to make a living and just relieve chronic back pain for a few days.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51409937]find a no-bullshit chiropractor who basically just gives you a deep massage and aligns your spine[/QUOTE]
thats called a physical therapist
or a masseuse
my gf works with a guy who carries around crystals and drinks bottle of crystal water with crystals in it
I find it seriously concerning how blurry the line between legit doctors and "alternative" medicine is over here. A few month ago my brother went to the osteopath and he gave him a pendant containing water to help him solve his sleeping issues (???).
I myself used to be given homeopathic treatments for stress and anxiety by my general practitioner when I was a child, I used to believe it was like regular medicine without side effects because that's what my mother told me. But now that I try to tell her it doesn't actually contain anything and can't possibly have an effect on health she argues that I should be more open-minded as a science student...
She also demonize "allopathy" as being a typically western point of view in terms of medicine in that it treats the symptoms after the fact instead of doing prevention, I mean sure healthy living conditions go a long way to prevent diseases but once they happen sugar pills aren't going to solve anything.
It's a good start but they need to start prosecuting people for pushing these treatments.
Australia desperately needs this. The TGA (Therapeutic Goods Association) which regulates all of the Homeopathy treatment, vitamins, weight loss pills/shakes etc is completely industry funded.
If you walk into a chemist here in Australia, it's wall to wall bullshit.
The guys who did Chasers did a pretty good episode about it on their show, the checkout.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqkgdLTISHM[/media]
good first step but it should be illegal along with fortune telling and other literal scams. if a pharmaceutical company released something scientifically proven to not work they'd get reamed.
I wonder, does this include gay conversion camps? You know, since they try to cure something that is not an illness with methods that are not one iota medically or scientifically proven to work?
[QUOTE=_Axel;51410177]I find it seriously concerning how blurry the line between legit doctors and "alternative" medicine is over here. A few month ago my brother went to the osteopath and he gave him a pendant containing water to help him solve his sleeping issues (???).
I myself used to be given homeopathic treatments for stress and anxiety by my general practitioner when I was a child, I used to believe it was like regular medicine without side effects because that's what my mother told me. But now that I try to tell her it doesn't actually contain anything and can't possibly have an effect on health she argues that I should be more open-minded as a science student...
She also demonize "allopathy" as being a typically western point of view in terms of medicine in that it treats the symptoms after the fact instead of doing prevention, I mean sure healthy living conditions go a long way to prevent diseases but once they happen sugar pills aren't going to solve anything.[/QUOTE]
You'd be surprised how much alternative bullshit medicine is causing problems here, especially when it comes to cancer treatment and orthopedics
The guys with cancer use homeopathy or some other bullshit alternative medicine and then show up at late stage 3 or early stage 4 either because they don't want to undergo chemo (and frankly I don't blame them if this is their reason much because chemo fucks you up more often than not) or think that chemo wont help them (this is stupid) or are just plain afraid of undergoing such treatment (and you can sometimes empathize with them) but it won't do anything to cure your illness no matter what you think it does.
Also oh god, I'm amazed how much misinformation has gone out regarding prevention and allopathy, every allopathic doctor worth their salt emphasizes prevention over cure, never mind that most individuals either dont consider it or believe it to not be worth their time, or believe it or not, call it bullshit even. It's one thing to be open minded but maybe sometimes people need to wake up and smell the roses for what they are.
If this is true, I'm sure good old James Randi feels happy enough to see it finally happening in his lifetime. He and several others have made many attempts to expose the practitioners and proponents of homeopathy for the frauds they are, but I have a feeling these charlatans will find some way to wriggle out of it, be it a new label, or a new name.
Either way, small steps. If we're finally exposing one, then hopefully more will come out of it.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51409937]Actual chiropractic can be great for temporary pain relief. It's not going to cure your cancer or stop your AIDS or flush out your toxins, but if you find a no-bullshit chiropractor who basically just gives you a deep massage and aligns your spine, it's fine. The ones who charge $40 for a two-minute neck crack to cure your sinus infection are bullshit artists, but there's chiropractors who don't rely on the bullshit to make a living and just relieve chronic back pain for a few days.[/QUOTE]
Actual physical therapists find chiropractors frustrating. Chiropractors utilize some of the same methods as physical therapists, but chiropractors almost always use the most extreme form. The stuff they do is generally considered a last resort to physical therapists because it can cause damage at the same time as resolving another sort of injury. Hyper extending joints and fucking with the spine are dangerous games and the underlying issues can usually be resolved with less damaging means.
[QUOTE=_Axel;51409867]Wouldn't knowing it's a placebo prevent the placebo effect from kicking in?[/QUOTE]
Iirc there was a study where a group were told about the placebo effect (and that it works) and were then given placebo pills with their knowledge. Apparently it turned out that the effect was still there.
Can't remember exactly how the study was set up, though, how many participants it had, what the control group was etc.
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51410461]Iirc there was a study where a group were told about the placebo effect (and that it works) and were then given placebo pills with their knowledge. Apparently it turned out that the effect was still there.
Can't remember exactly how the study was set up, though, how many participants it had, what the control group was etc.[/QUOTE]
"Wait, so you are giving the test group the placebo? What do we give the control group? Actual medicine? This is going to be the most confusing fucking journal article to write."
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;51410461]Iirc there was a study where a group were told about the placebo effect (and that it works) and were then given placebo pills with their knowledge. Apparently it turned out that the effect was still there.
Can't remember exactly how the study was set up, though, how many participants it had, what the control group was etc.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.jpain.org/article/S1526-5900(15)00033-4/fulltext[/url]
here's one of the recent studies done on the effect
[QUOTE=.Isak.;51409937]Actual chiropractic can be great for temporary pain relief. It's not going to cure your cancer or stop your AIDS or flush out your toxins, but if you find a no-bullshit chiropractor who basically just gives you a deep massage and aligns your spine, it's fine. The ones who charge $40 for a two-minute neck crack to cure your sinus infection are bullshit artists, but there's chiropractors who don't rely on the bullshit to make a living and just relieve chronic back pain for a few days.[/QUOTE]
You can't say actual chiropractic without saying the rest of it
[QUOTE=Nautsabes;51410149]my gf works with a guy who carries around crystals and drinks bottle of crystal water with crystals in it[/QUOTE]
What kind of crystals? are you implying he is a meth addict or do you mean he is some super spiritual placebo person?
[editline]22nd November 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=GunFox;51410460]Actual physical therapists find chiropractors frustrating. Chiropractors utilize some of the same methods as physical therapists, but chiropractors almost always use the most extreme form. The stuff they do is generally considered a last resort to physical therapists because it can cause damage at the same time as resolving another sort of injury. Hyper extending joints and fucking with the spine are dangerous games and the underlying issues can usually be resolved with less damaging means.[/QUOTE]
Thats called a good massage, chiropraxy is the voodoo stuff that cures cancer by cracking joints.
It gets muddy sometimes, but chiropraxy is the stuff thats non-scientific, even though the techniques qre used by massage therapists and chiropractors to for example... help with back pains and stressed joints.
[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51410578]What kind of crystals? are you implying he is a meth addict or do you mean he is some super spiritual placebo person?
[editline]22nd November 2016[/editline]
Thats called a good massage, chiropraxy is the voodoo stuff that cures cancer by cracking joints.
It gets muddy sometimes, but chiropraxy is the stuff thats non-scientific, even though the techniques qre used by massage therapists and chiropractors to for example... help with back pains and stressed joints.[/QUOTE]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_healing[/url]
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.