Argentine Nobel Prize winner to Obama: Don't visit March 24, because it's the 40th anniversary of a - Polidicks

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/WLFpT4W.jpg[/IMG] [QUOTE=AP]In a sign of growing discontent over a visit by President Barack Obama, a former Argentine Nobel Prize winner says the U.S. leader should skip his planned March 24 visit to the country because it's the 40th anniversary of a coup that installed a military government that had U.S. backing. Adolfo Perez Esquivel, who won the prize in 1980 for his defense of human rights during Argentina's 1976-1983 dictatorship, told The Associated Press that he plans to publish an open letter this week. Esquivel and Obama know each other through the Nobel Prize; Obama won it in 2009. Esquivel said the two had communicated before over human rights issues, including the indefinite detentions of prisoners at the U.S. naval base Guantanamo Bay. Esquivel said he welcomes Obama, and thinks it's great that an American president wants to better get to know people in Latin America. However, he should not visit on March 24, Esquivel said. On that day in 1976, the military staged a coup. Human rights groups estimate that 30,000 people were killed or disappeared during the 1976 to 1983 military government. Obama, after visiting Cuba, plans to arrive in Buenos Aires on March 23, and be in the country on March 24. Since the visit was announced several weeks ago, many human rights groups have voiced opposition to an American president being in Argentina on that day. They argue that military governments across the region flourished thanks to backing by the U.S. during the Cold War with the Soviet Union. They point to declassified U.S. State Department documents that indicate Henry Kissinger, America's former secretary of state, gave his approval to the generals to implement "dirty war" tactics for the sake of civil order.[/QUOTE] [URL="http://bigstory.ap.org/article/5cc8ca69fcb44fe79f1dd7978c95a5c5/argentine-nobel-prize-winner-obama-dont-visit-march-24"]Source[/URL].

Fucking ridiculous. It's not like Obama, a 15-year-old dude at the time, had anything to do with it. Can't wait for all these old farts to die so that we can move past the constant Falklands whining, and the coup back in the late '70s. Only in a country this backwards people still hold grudges for so long.

dont come to school tomorrow obama

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859399]Fucking ridiculous. It's not like Obama, a 15-year-old dude at the time, had anything to do with it. Can't wait for all these old farts to die so that we can move past the constant Falklands whining, and the coup back in the late '70s. Only in a country this backwards people still hold grudges for so long.[/QUOTE] How the fuck is this a "grudge", have you even read this: [QUOTE]Esquivel said he welcomes Obama, and thinks it's great that an American president wants to better get to know people in Latin America. However, he should not visit on March 24, Esquivel said. On that day in 1976, the military staged a coup.[/QUOTE] Don't you see the irony in the president of the US, a country that literally planted a dictatorship here with the excuse of supressing socialist/communist thinking, coming to visit the same day that it all started? How hard can it be to just come one day later? that way you don't offend the families of the 30.000 people that dissapeared.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859399]Fucking ridiculous. It's not like Obama, a 15-year-old dude at the time, had anything to do with it. Can't wait for all these old farts to die so that we can move past the constant Falklands whining, and the coup back in the late '70s. Only in a country this backwards people still hold grudges for so long.[/QUOTE] well, there are 15 year olds in the us thinking all whites are behind slavery 200 years ago. If that teaches us anything is that new people are going to hold that grudge in argentina after the old people pass on.

[QUOTE=maxspeed3006;49859481]How the fuck is this a "grudge", have you even read this: Don't you see the irony in the president of the US, a country that literally planted a dictatorship here with the excuse of supressing socialist/communist thinking, coming to visit the same day that it all started? How hard can it be to just come one day later? that way you don't offend the families of the 30.000 people that dissapeared.[/QUOTE] This is Obama we're talking about, not Nixon or Reagan. I understand he represents the American government and all that, but I still think this is all misguided and blown out of proportion. It's the same reason no one should be all up in arms if David Cameron ever visits Argentina, but we know that most people will blame *him* for the Falklands, as if he were Margaret Thatcher. It's bullshit and beyond retarded. Time to LET GO and MOVE ON. [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] [quote]Obama "is the false face of the Nobel Prize and we believe there are many things he should pay for," said Hebe de Bonafini, president of iconic human rights group Mothers of Plaza the Mayo. "We don't want him here."[/quote] ^ You know what this means? It means that this old cunt should die in a fire already, and that no one should care about what she has to say. For those not familiar with Mrs. Bonafini, she's basically a troll, kinda like Donald Trump, but a lot older and with a lot less money, but same big mouth, spouting bullshit all the time.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859565]This is Obama we're talking about, not Nixon or Reagan. I understand he represents the American government and all that, but I still think this is all misguided and blown out of proportion. It's the same reason no one should be all up in arms if David Cameron ever visits Argentina, but we know that most people will blame *him* for the Falklands, as if he were Margaret Thatcher. It's bullshit and beyond retarded. Time to LET GO and MOVE ON.[/QUOTE] Do you realize the reason people still hold on to this is because we still don't know about something as basic as where some of these thousands of dissapeared people where killed and buried. The CIA to this date holds classified information of what the junta did in those years and that includes possible locations of hundreds of clandestine detention centers and mass burial sites. So if you want people to let go and move on then you should maybe give them a reason to.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859565]This is Obama we're talking about, not Nixon or Reagan. I understand he represents the American government and all that, but I still think this is all misguided and blown out of proportion. It's the same reason no one should be all up in arms if David Cameron ever visits Argentina, but we know that most people will blame *him* for the Falklands, as if he were Margaret Thatcher. It's bullshit and beyond retarded. [b]Time to LET GO and MOVE ON.[/b][/QUOTE] But that makes too much sense. We have to hold grudges against each other forever for whatever wrongs we did to each other in the past, whether it was 20, 30, 50, or 100 years ago. Because reasons. In all seriousness, you're absolutely right. But you'll always have people stuck living in the past, unable to escape it because of their own personal reasons, and that's just all there is to it. While a lot of things did go on back then and while we had our share of the blame at the time, that was then and this is now. It's time to ante up, deal with that fact, and move on. Or we can continue this bullshit game of ancestor blame indefinitely. It's whatever.

[QUOTE=Toyhobo;49859490]well, there are 15 year olds in the us thinking all whites are behind slavery 200 years ago. If that teaches us anything is that new people are going to hold that grudge in argentina after the old people pass on.[/QUOTE] For me, it's reason enough to disregard practically everything my parents and older people in general told me about the world when I was a kid. As a child, one does not know any better and is very gullible, but by the time you're in your teens, it's when you see the world for yourself and make conclusions based on what you observe... and for me, there's no reason to harbor the hatred that the older generation holds. The Falklands mean shit to me and for everyone else my age (31), same thing with the coup. It's one thing to acknowledge it, but I see no reason to perpetuate the resentment and hold a grudge like some older people still do nowadays, around here. If anything, I ought to be angry at them for trying to spread that shit onto me. Unfortunately, there are still a lot of gullible cunts out there who fall for this crap and as a result, they are mentally stuck in 1976/1983, even when they weren't even born at the time (not even an afterthought back when their parents were dating). Can't stand them, they add nothing of value, and for the most part, the sane and well-adjusted people around here quickly dismiss them. Hopefully their hatred will die with them. [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=maxspeed3006;49859663]Do you realize the reason people still hold on to this is because we still don't know about something as basic as where some of these thousands of dissapeared people where killed and buried. The CIA to this date holds classified information of what the junta did in those years and that includes possible locations of hundreds of clandestine detention centers and mass burial sites. So if you want people to let go and move on then you should maybe give them a reason to.[/QUOTE] ^ That's my reason right there, read my reply above.

[QUOTE=maxspeed3006;49859481] Don't you see the irony in the president of the US, a country that literally planted a dictatorship here with the excuse of supressing socialist/communist thinking, coming to visit the same day that it all started? How hard can it be to just come one day later? that way you don't offend the families of the 30.000 people that dissapeared.[/QUOTE] This is pretty reasonable. This guy saw some shit, everyone under the dictatorship did. It's not like they're personally blaming Obama. They probably acknowledge it's just some unfortunate timing due to a extremely busy schedule. Living with fear every day for decades thanks to intervention from a superpower thousands of miles away would be quite maddening, to make an understatement. The least you could do as POTUS is recognize past mistakes of your country (mistakes that still resonate and affect dozens of countries to this day). It's a symbolic gesture, much like you would expect any national tragedy to be remembered.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859688]For me, it's reason enough to disregard practically everything my parents and older people in general told me about the world when I was a kid. As a child, one does not know any better and is very gullible, but by the time you're in your teens, it's when you see the world for yourself and make conclusions based on what you observe... and for me, there's no reason to harbor the hatred that the older generation holds. The Falklands mean shit to me and for everyone else my age (31), same thing with the coup. It's one thing to acknowledge it, but I see no reason to perpetuate the resentment and hold a grudge like some older people still do nowadays, around here. If anything, I ought to be angry at them for trying to spread that shit onto me. [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] ^ That's my reason right there, read my reply above.[/QUOTE] Since your 1st post you started planting the idea that somehow there's a general grudge, resentment or hatred against the US and you can't be any more wrong. Of course, the extreme minority that you like to focus so much on will always exist but they are just that, a minority. Most people don't "hate" or hold a "grudge", they just understand the fact that we should always remember these horrible things that happened in the past to avoid them happening in the future (as you said) and if a nation actively hold information about these thing then we should protest against them. And i think that's where you are mistaken, just because people want to protest the fact that the US president is visiting on the same day that the coup started does not mean that they hold a grudge against them.

[QUOTE=The Un-Men;49859732]This is pretty reasonable. This guy saw some shit, everyone under the dictatorship did. It's not like they're personally blaming Obama. They probably acknowledge it's just some unfortunate timing due to a extremely busy schedule. Living with fear every day for decades thanks to intervention from a superpower thousands of miles away would be quite maddening, to make an understatement. The least you could do as POTUS is recognize past mistakes of your country (mistakes that still resonate and affect dozens of countries to this day). It's a symbolic gesture, much like you would expect any national tragedy to be remembered.[/QUOTE] Perhaps he's planning to do a public announcement regarding the coup, but noooo... people quickly get all up in arms about it. People love to jump to conclusions. Whatever the case may be, the world our parents lived in, 40 years ago, is not the same as today. It'd be nice if most people acknowledged that, for starters... [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=maxspeed3006;49859770]Since your 1st post you started planting the idea that somehow there's a general grudge, resentment or hatred against the US and you can't be any more wrong. Of course, the extreme minority that you like to focus so much on will always exist but they are just that, a minority. Most people don't "hate" or hold a "grudge", they just understand the fact that we should always remember these horrible things that happened in the past to avoid them happening in the future (as you said) and if a nation actively hold information about these thing then we should protest against them. And i think that's where you are mistaken, just because people want to protest the fact that the US president is visiting on the same day that the coup started does not mean that they hold a grudge against them.[/QUOTE] Who cares if a government holds information about events that transpired [I]40 fucking years ago?![/I] Every government does, what's the point? What's done it's done anyways, what's there to protest? See, this is what I mean. You didn't get my point. Move [U]the fuck[/U] on. [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] If you just said "eh, some people may consider the timing in bad taste", I'd be somewhat okay with that, but you brought up the American government holding information about what happened back then. We should all be way past that by now, *that* is what I'm saying.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859771] [B]Who cares if a government holds information about events that transpired [I]40 fucking years ago?![/I] Every government does, what's the point? What's done it's done anyways, what's there to protest? [/B] See, this is what I mean. You didn't get my point.[/QUOTE] Who cares if a goverment holds information about the potential killing/burial site of your loved ones? At this point i think we should just agree to disagree about this subject. [QUOTE]If you just said "eh, some people may consider the timing in bad taste", I'd be somewhat okay with that, but brought up the American government holding information about what happened back then. We should all be way past that by now, *that* is what I'm saying.[/QUOTE] I'd like to know more about what you mean by "moving on", you said earlier that all of these historic facts should be acknowledge but then where would [B]you[/B] draw the line? when things like this hit the news? when there's marchs on significants dates? I don't know, i see as if you think that remembering stuff like this somehow holds us back from something? Maybe you mean about holding us back in the matter of US relationships, which i think they were more damaged after the 90's and the whole FMI/2001 crisis thing than anything.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859399]Fucking ridiculous. It's not like Obama, a 15-year-old dude at the time, had anything to do with it. Can't wait for all these old farts to die so that we can move past the constant Falklands whining, and the coup back in the late '70s. Only in a country this backwards people still hold grudges for so long.[/QUOTE] bit more than a fucking grudge considering there are people who disappeared during these military dictatorships that are still unaccounted for

[QUOTE=maxspeed3006;49859934]Who cares if a goverment holds information about the potential killing/burial site of your loved ones? At this point i think we should just agree to disagree about this subject.[/QUOTE] So you're part of that minority you've stated earlier, then? Then yea, like I've stated before, it's all bullshit and we should know better by now, than to mindlessly bash whoever holds office in the US, over something that's happened before you were born. Might as well include throwing molotovs at the Chilean embassy if their president ever makes a visit, over Pinochet's involvement and assistance to the British government back in the '80s, over the Falklands, hm? [I] Please.[/I] [QUOTE=maxspeed3006;49859934]I'd like to know more about what you mean by "moving on", you said earlier that all of these historic facts should be acknowledge but then where would [B]you[/B] draw the line? when things like this hit the news? when there's marchs on significants dates? I don't know, i see as if you think that remembering stuff like this somehow holds us back from something? Maybe you mean about holding us back in the matter of US relationships, which i think they were more damaged after the 90's and the whole FMI/2001 crisis thing than anything.[/QUOTE] "Moving on" means... moving on. Getting past whatever happened in the past, acknowledge it and work towards a united future involving both governments. Things have always been shitty ever since I can remember, so I'll take this as a step towards the right direction. Judging by the utter fucking mess we've been in over the last 12 years, I'm more than happy to acknowledge that our government and the American one can reach an understanding and slowly make amends. [QUOTE=Zukriuchen;49859952]bit more than a fucking grudge considering there are people who disappeared during these military dictatorships that are still unaccounted for[/QUOTE] There's a big difference between acknowledging what happened, and being a stuck-up idiot, in perpetual mourning state and bashing everyone and everything. *That* is what I'm strongly against. It's a toxic attitude and it doesn't make things any better.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;49860126]There is nothing more justified than politely protesting a foreign regime that has done grave harm to your country. They are not car bombing US embassies or anything. Pretiacuanto. One guy simply asks USA president to come to Argentina on the anniversary and you lost your mind. The only raging person here is you. There is no grudge. If USA president planned to come to Turkey on september 12 me and many other Turks would be against that too.[/QUOTE] On the contrary, I'm all for Obama coming in and visiting the country... I'm not the one saying he shouldn't come.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49860048] So you're part of that minority you've stated earlier, then? Then yea, like I've stated before, it's all bullshit and we should know better by now, than to mindlessly bash whoever holds office in the US, over something that's happened before you were born. Might as well include throwing molotovs at the Chilean embassy if their president ever makes a visit, over Pinochet's involvement and assistance to the British government back in the '80s, over the Falklands, hm? Please.[/QUOTE] Please do explain how wanting to find out the location of where thousands of people where murdered is bullshit. In all of your post you act as if there's only two ways of thinking: You either think we should move on from what happened in the past and don't even bring it up to the US as that would only damage relations or you constantly bash the US (and it's president), constantly remind everyone about what happened in the 70's and you don't care about building relations with them. Also, it's funny how you bring up Chile a country that since the end of their dictatorship has had strong ties with the US but still constantly condems what they did with Operation Condor and the current hold of information by them. [QUOTE]"Moving on" means... moving on. Getting past whatever happened in the past, acknowledge it and work towards a united future involving both governments. Things have always been shitty ever since I can remember, so I'll take this as a step towards the right direction. Judging by the utter fucking mess we've been in over the last 12 years, I'm more than happy to acknowledge that our government and the American one can reach an understanding and slowly make amends.[/QUOTE] I agree towards making amends, wouldn't you agree that sharing information about (like i said earlier) what the CIA did back in the 70's in ours and all other Latin American countries would be a part of that?

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49860048]There's a big difference between acknowledging what happened, and being a stuck-up idiot, in perpetual mourning state and bashing everyone and everything. *That* is what I'm strongly against. It's a toxic attitude and it doesn't make things any better.[/QUOTE] So advising against visiting during one, specific date, that [i]marks the 40 year anniversary of the introduction of one of those dictatorships[/I], is "bashing everyone and everything"? Fucking hell

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49859771][B]Perhaps he's planning to do a public announcement regarding the coup, but noooo... people quickly get all up in arms about it. People love to jump to conclusions.[/B] Whatever the case may be, the world our parents lived in, 40 years ago, is not the same as today. It'd be nice if most people acknowledged that, for starters... [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] Who cares if a government holds information about events that transpired [I]40 fucking years ago?![/I] Every government does, what's the point? What's done it's done anyways, what's there to protest? See, this is what I mean. You didn't get my point. Move [U]the fuck[/U] on. [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] If you just said "eh, some people may consider the timing in bad taste", I'd be somewhat okay with that, but you brought up the American government holding information about what happened back then. We should all be way past that by now, *that* is what I'm saying.[/QUOTE] It's amazing how you jumped to a conclusion while simultaneously condemning others for doing the same. If the US wanted to help these relations they could at least just declassify this information

Some of you guys are alright. Don't go to the Falklands tomorrow.

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;49860644]You got me wrong. You are raging, against this mans words. Not against Obama. Your post style is very aggressive and you should tone it down, if I misunderstood you.[/QUOTE] Nah it's cool. When you grow up surrounded by people shouting "b-but 'murican imperialism!! British cowards, the Malvinas are ours!!", you get real tired and have little tolerance. Just my 2 cents. [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=plunger435;49860425]It's amazing how you jumped to a conclusion while simultaneously condemning others for doing the same. If the US wanted to help these relations they could at least just declassify this information[/QUOTE] And I'm sure they will eventually, and we'll all be thankful for it, but shouting "MURRICANS GIT OUT!!!" doesn't help.

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49860719]When you grow up surrounded by people shouting "b-but 'murican imperialism!!" [/QUOTE] ya except the dictatorships weren't some made up controversy but an [I]actual[/I] display of american imperialism

[QUOTE=Pretiacruento;49860719]Nah it's cool. When you grow up surrounded by people shouting "b-but 'murican imperialism!! British cowards, the Malvinas are ours!!", you get real tired and have little tolerance. Just my 2 cents. [editline]3rd March 2016[/editline] And I'm sure they will eventually, and we'll all be thankful for it, but shouting "MURRICANS GIT OUT!!!" doesn't help.[/QUOTE] Who's shouting Americans get out? This was one nobel prize winner speaking to another, asking him kindly not to come to his country. And understandably so.

Jesus Christ,the guy asked for The current American president to NOT come to Argentina for ONE DAY because it will be the 40th anniversary of a military coup instilled by the US. He didn't call for a ban on all Americans for all eternity.

A little update, it seems like with Obama's upcoming visit the US will finally declassify their records about the so called "Dirty War" in Argentina: [URL="http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2016/03/17/us/politics/ap-us-obama-argentina.html"]US to Declassify Military Records on Argentina's 'Dirty War'[/URL] [QUOTE]President Barack Obama will move to declassify U.S. military and intelligence records related to Argentina's "Dirty War," the White House said Thursday, aiming to bring closure to questions of U.S. involvement in a notorious chapter in Argentina's history. Obama's visit to Buenos Aires next week coincides with the 40th anniversary of the 1976 military coup that started Argentina's 1976-83 dictatorship. Little is known about the U.S. role leading up to that period, in which thousands of people were forcibly disappeared and babies systematically stolen from political prisoners. Susan Rice, Obama's national security adviser, said Obama would use his trip to announce a "comprehensive effort" to declassify more documents, at Argentina's request. She said Obama would also visit Remembrance Park in Buenos Aires to honor victims of the dictatorship. As part of the new declassification effort, the U.S. will search for additional records related to rights abuses committed by the junta, said a senior Obama administration official, who wasn't authorized to discuss the program by name and requested anonymity. That search will for the first time include records from U.S. intelligence agencies, along with the Pentagon, U.S. law enforcement agencies and presidential libraries, the official said. Claudio Avruj, Argentina's human rights secretary, said opening the archives could shed light on Argentine soldiers trained at the School of the Americas and the so-called Plan Condor, a coordinated effort between South American dictatorships to stamp out dissent through assassinations, torture and repression. "This is also going to help in the search for grandchildren taken during the dictatorship," Avruj wrote on Twitter.[/QUOTE]

Hahahaha I can imagine Pretiacruento telling old jews to "Fuck off man. It's the past NOW. Stop holding a grudge or whatever" Poor dude. I know some CEO's can't have a simple fucking gram of emphaty but this is getting near critical 0 levels. Plus, thank god he's not into diplomatic relationships. Can you imagine him inviting Japanese over to Nanjing on the day in which the rape happened? "Nah dude stop holding a grudge"