• Hamas operatives pose as medical patients to infiltrate Israel
    28 replies, posted
[URL="http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-operatives-pose-as-medical-patients-to-infiltrate-Israel-443503"]http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Hamas-operatives-pose-as-medical-patients-to-infiltrate-Israel-443503[/URL] [QUOTE] Israel Police and Shin Bet [Israel Security Agency] arrested two Hamas operatives who had entered Israel from Gaza on forged medical documents. The pair were arrested on January 7, however, the information was only cleared for release on Monday. After entering Israel, Mahmoud Matok, 31, along with his father, 51, escaped from hospital and traveled to Umm al-Fahm in northern Israel, where they were arrested. Both men hailed from the Jabalya refugee camp located in the northern Gaza Strip. A source in the Shin Bet said, "This is a serious incident that illustrates the cynical exploitation of Israel's willingness to meet the humanitarian needs of Gaza's residents, which could lead to a tightening of entry regulations, and ultimately harm the residents of the Gaza Strip." [/QUOTE]
I'm actually curious why they're claiming that they were Hamas operatives, the article doesn't say.
[QUOTE=phygon;49660601]I'm actually curious why they're claiming that they were Hamas operatives, the article doesn't say.[/QUOTE] "After entering Israel, Mahmoud Matok, 31, along with his father, 51, escaped from hospital and traveled to Umm al-Fahm in northern Israel, where they were arrested. " Injured people don't escape. No doubt there's even more evidence.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;49660776]"After entering Israel, Mahmoud Matok, 31, along with his father, 51, escaped from hospital and traveled to Umm al-Fahm in northern Israel, where they were arrested. " Injured people don't escape. No doubt there's even more evidence.[/QUOTE] Personally I'd do anything I could to get out of the gaza strip. There's really no information in the article. All this guy and his father have confessed according to the article is paying for forged documents to get in. They could very well be Hamas operatives but there's no way to argue that without any sort of evidence at all.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;49660776]"After entering Israel, Mahmoud Matok, 31, along with his father, 51, escaped from hospital and traveled to Umm al-Fahm in northern Israel, where they were arrested. " Injured people don't escape. No doubt there's even more evidence.[/QUOTE] actually there is doubt because none is being provided
[QUOTE=polarbear.;49660867]actually there is doubt because none is being provided[/QUOTE] Don't worry, I'm sure [I][B]OUR BOYS ON THE STRIP[/B][/I] have got it under control
[QUOTE=DogGunn;49660776]"After entering Israel, Mahmoud Matok, 31, along with his father, 51, escaped from hospital and traveled to Umm al-Fahm in northern Israel, where they were arrested. " Injured people don't escape. No doubt there's even more evidence.[/QUOTE] Uh yeah maybe they were trying to escape from some of the worst war crimes of the modern era [IMG]https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/1/21/1232561961477/White-Phosphorus-001.jpg[/IMG] Can you really think of NO reason that a Palestinian might try to seek refuge in Israel?
Fuck off. Worst crimes of the modern era? Go complain to ISIS or someone actually committing genocide of a people. Israel is blockading them because Hamas exist.
[QUOTE=phygon;49661947]Uh yeah maybe they were trying to escape from some of the worst war crimes of the modern era [IMG]https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/1/21/1232561961477/White-Phosphorus-001.jpg[/IMG] Can you really think of NO reason that a Palestinian might try to seek refuge in Israel?[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure that if its "one of the worst war crimes in the modern era" Palestinians wouldn't even dare to seek refuge in Israel. Hell, they would probably prefer going to Egypt instead
I still think Egypt should be offered the land currently occupied by hamas, and political/economic compensation if they take on the task of establishing order and law there.
[QUOTE=soulharvester;49663138]I still think Egypt should be offered the land currently occupied by hamas, and political/economic compensation if they take on the task of establishing order and law there.[/QUOTE] That would just give Hamas a massive channel to get more rockets and other materials into their hands.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;49662975]Fuck off. Worst crimes of the modern era? Go complain to ISIS or someone actually committing genocide of a people. Israel is blockading them because Hamas exist.[/QUOTE] This is so ignorant I honestly don't know where to start, you do realize that both Israel and Hamas are both responsible for generations of hate. Alot of kids are taught that [i]"those people on the other side"[/i] are very bad and evil. The difference is that Hamas attacks Israeli soldiers while Israel kills, most of the time, civilians when retaliating. Did you somehow miss the hundreds of videos showing how the Iron Dome system intercepts Hamas rockets only for Israel to fire back straight into the civilian population of Palestine. IDK about you but last time I checked bombing civilians (see: USA) was a war crime.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663196]This is so ignorant I honestly don't know where to start, you do realize that both Israel and Hamas are both responsible for generations of hate. Alot of kids are taught that [i]"those people on the other side"[/i] are very bad and evil. The difference is that Hamas attacks Israeli soldiers while Israel kills, most of the time, civilians when retaliating. Did you somehow miss the hundreds of videos showing how the Iron Dome system intercepts Hamas rockets only for Israel to fire back straight into the civilian population of Palestine. IDK about you but last time I checked bombing civilians (see: USA) was a war crime.[/QUOTE] using phosphorus bombs which are explicitly prohibited is defo illegal, and it doesn't cut it with me that very expensive american made missiles can't differentiate between fighters, hospitals and schools.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663196]This is so ignorant I honestly don't know where to start, you do realize that both Israel and Hamas are both responsible for generations of hate. Alot of kids are taught that [i]"those people on the other side"[/i] are very bad and evil. The difference is that Hamas attacks Israeli soldiers while Israel kills, most of the time, civilians when retaliating. Did you somehow miss the hundreds of videos showing how the Iron Dome system intercepts Hamas rockets only for Israel to fire back straight into the civilian population of Palestine. IDK about you but last time I checked bombing civilians (see: USA) was a war crime.[/QUOTE] So let me get this straight: Hamas firing hundreds of rockets a day into Israeli residential centers is not a war crime because by now Israel manages to intercept most of them. Hamas launching said rockets from deep inside its own civilian population also isn't a war crime. Israel attacking said launch sites is a war crime though, because civilians get hurt? Okay, suppose Israel turned off the Iron Dome, and would just blindly fire rockets in the general direction of Gaza whenever something hit one of our cities. Would that be cool?
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663196]Hamas attacks Israeli soldiers[/QUOTE] Please tell me this is a twisted joke. Please. Hamas doesn't even care about it's own civilians population while it actively tries to kill Israeli civilians any chance they get.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663196]This is so ignorant I honestly don't know where to start,[/QUOTE] As someone who lived in Israel all his life, that is the most bullshit thing i read all day. [QUOTE]you do realize that both Israel and Hamas are both responsible for generations of hate. Alot of kids are taught that "those people on the other side" are very bad and evil.[/QUOTE] I don't remember being taught to hate Palestinians or Arabs, I don't think the Israeli education system has a program where you go outside and stab Arabs to death. Unlike Hamas and the Palestinian authority who incite violence and spreads rumors, then you have 13 year old Palestinians running around with a knife stabbing everyone they see before being shot down and the world crying bloody murder. [QUOTE]The difference is that [B]Hamas attacks Israeli soldiers[/B] while Israel kills, most of the time, civilians when retaliating.[/QUOTE] Oh boy here we go again, i'm not even gonna tell how delusional you sound. [QUOTE]Did you somehow miss the hundreds of videos showing how the Iron Dome system intercepts Hamas rockets only for Israel to fire back straight into the civilian population of Palestine.[/QUOTE] Good thing Israel knows how to actually defend its civilians instead of cowering behind them. The IDF retaliates against the positions where Hamas launched the rockets which are usually at Hospitals, Schools etc. Unfortuneatly civilians do get in the way because Hamas wants to make sure Israel hits ESPECIALLY civilians just so they can get more reputation from the world. I'm not defending Israel in killing civilians, but making Hamas blame-free in this situation is fucking stupid.
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;49663230]using phosphorus bombs which are explicitly prohibited is defo illegal, and it doesn't cut it with me that very expensive american made missiles can't differentiate between fighters, hospitals and schools.[/QUOTE] Phosphorus isn't explicitly prohibited. It's allowed as a smoke screen and/or signalling smoke. I actually can't find any evidence that they used it as a direct or indirect fire weapon. The main source used by people talking about it seems to be the Human Right's Watch report, but that report doesn't actually have any evidence of that. They fully admit in the report that it may have been used as an obscurant, but that they should have used alternatives. I don't see them actually showing that an alternative was at hand at the time though. They seem to just vaguely hand wave that an alternative is produced in Israel, therefore they could have used that instead. Of course it's a bit more complicated than just walking over to a factory in the middle of armed conflict and buying some munitions. The UN report doesn't even seem to come to those conclusions. It just suggests that the UN consider banning all use of white phosphorus.
[QUOTE=RzDat;49663260]As someone who lived in Israel all his life, that is the most bullshit thing i read all day. I don't remember being taught to hate Palestinians or Arabs, I don't think the Israeli education system has a program where you go outside and stab Arabs to death. Unlike Hamas and the Palestinian authority who incite violence and spreads rumors, then you have 13 year old Palestinians running around with a knife stabbing everyone they see before being shot down and the world crying bloody murder. Oh boy here we go again, i'm not even gonna tell how delusional you sound. Good thing Israel knows how to actually defend its civilians instead of cowering behind them. The IDF retaliates against the positions where Hamas launched the rockets which are usually at Hospitals, Schools etc. Unfortuneatly civilians do get in the way because Hamas wants to make sure Israel hits ESPECIALLY civilians just so they can get more reputation from the world. I'm not defending Israel in killing civilians, but making Hamas blame-free in this situation is fucking stupid.[/QUOTE] Ok I worded my post pretty badly, what I was in now way saying Hamas was blame-free, okay? They're scum which teach kids that bombing your neighbour is a good thing etc. But the fact is that most of the time, not always but most of the time, the people of Palestine are the ones who take casualties. I'm aware of the Hamas stabbings and other attacks, thing is most of the time (key phrase) they get obliterated by the IDF without being able to cause major damage. Then there's Israel, like before keep in mind I'm not calling Israel evil or something but you have a bunch of people in high places which seem to argue that firing rockets into a dense urban population is a smart thing to do when in reality it only spreads more hate. Finally in the middle of it all you have that tiny Paelstine minority desperately trying to run a country amidst a fucking warzone. Hopefully this is a bit more clear than my previous post.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663329]Ok I worded my post pretty badly, what I was in now way saying Hamas was blame-free, okay? They're scum which teach kids that bombing your neighbour is a good thing etc. But the fact is that most of the time, not always but most of the time, the people of Palestine are the ones who take casualties. I'm aware of the Hamas stabbings and other attacks, thing is most of the time (key phrase) they get obliterated by the IDF without being able to cause major damage. Then there's Israel, like before keep in mind I'm not calling Israel evil or something but you have a bunch of people in high places which seem to argue that firing rockets into a dense urban population is a smart thing to do when in reality it only spreads more hate. Finally in the middle of it all you have that tiny Paelstine minority desperately trying to run a country amidst a fucking warzone. Hopefully this is a bit more clear than my previous post.[/QUOTE] Hamas takes casualties because they don't care about their own citizens. You better bet that if they evacuated their people, wore uniforms, and didn't purposefully try to get civilians killed in combat they wouldn' lose nearly as many.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663196]This is so ignorant I honestly don't know where to start] The difference is that Hamas attacks Israeli soldiers while Israel kills, most of the time, civilians when retaliating.[/QUOTE] This already shows you know nothing. Hilarious. Thanks for the laughs though.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663329] But the fact is that most of the time, not always but most of the time, the people of Palestine are the ones who take casualties. I'm aware of the Hamas stabbings and other attacks, thing is most of the time (key phrase) they get obliterated by the IDF without being able to cause major damage. Then there's Israel, like before keep in mind I'm not calling Israel evil or something but you have a bunch of people in high places which seem to argue that firing rockets into a dense urban population is a smart thing to do when in reality it only spreads more hate. Finally in the middle of it all you have that tiny Paelstine minority desperately trying to run a country amidst a fucking warzone. [/QUOTE] The Gaza strip is one of the most densely populated places on Earth. Israel does its best to stop civilian casualties through calling the people who are going to be bombed, dropping leaflets, and calling off bombing runs sometimes. Israel must retaliate against people who are attacking her and she's trying her best to prevent civilian casualties.
[QUOTE=phygon;49661947]Uh yeah maybe they were trying to escape from some of the worst war crimes of the modern era [IMG]https://static-secure.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2009/1/21/1232561961477/White-Phosphorus-001.jpg[/IMG] Can you really think of NO reason that a Palestinian might try to seek refuge in Israel?[/QUOTE] This is basically the same as ISIS exterminating, raping and/or enslaving Christians and Yazidis. Boko Haram setting children on fire is nothing compared to this.
[QUOTE=sgman91;49663268]Phosphorus isn't explicitly prohibited. It's allowed as a smoke screen and/or signalling smoke. I actually can't find any evidence that they used it as a direct or indirect fire weapon. The main source used by people talking about it seems to be the Human Right's Watch report, but that report doesn't actually have any evidence of that. They fully admit in the report that it may have been used as an obscurant, but that they should have used alternatives. I don't see them actually showing that an alternative was at hand at the time though. They seem to just vaguely hand wave that an alternative is produced in Israel, therefore they could have used that instead. Of course it's a bit more complicated than just walking over to a factory in the middle of armed conflict and buying some munitions. The UN report doesn't even seem to come to those conclusions. It just suggests that the UN consider banning all use of white phosphorus.[/QUOTE] They directly admitted to using it in missiles many times. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=DogGunn;49662975]Fuck off. Worst crimes of the modern era? Go complain to ISIS or someone actually committing genocide of a people. Israel is blockading them because Hamas exist.[/QUOTE] The difference is that ISIS isn't a first world country and there hasn't really been a formal declaration of war so they aren't fighting under the Geneva convention. Thanks for flaming though. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] Also no shit I oppose ISIS as well
[QUOTE=phygon;49667586]They directly admitted to using it in missiles many times.[/QUOTE] I don't believe white phosphorus missiles even exist. So I'm not sure what you mean.
[QUOTE=phygon;49667586]They directly admitted to using it in missiles many times. [/QUOTE] They admitted to using shells for signaling and smokescreen purposes, which is standard use of WP in the military. It's use to generate smoke is way more useful than it's ability to kill people. If Israel wanted to exterminate the Gaza strip they have way more viable munitions to do so. [QUOTE=phygon;49667586] The difference is that ISIS isn't a first world country and there hasn't really been a formal declaration of war so they aren't fighting under the Geneva convention. Thanks for flaming though. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] Also no shit I oppose ISIS as well[/QUOTE] Which geneva convention is Israel fighting under? When did they formally declare war? With whom? Really it seems like you are trying to use semantics to get out of hte fact that you grossly overstated Israel's war crimes. They have done some fishy things but nothing worse than Hamas has done, to say nothing of Boko Haram, ISIL, or going back a bit further, Gaddafi, Assad, Hussein, etc. [editline]3rd February 2016[/editline] I mean, if you had just said "Israel has done some unethical shit like x and y" pretty much everyone on FP would be on board but saying they have committed some of the "worst war crimes of the modern era?" Not even close.
Nah in those instances, FP would just post "Fuck Israel".
[QUOTE=codenamecueball;49663230]using phosphorus bombs which are explicitly prohibited is defo illegal, and it doesn't cut it with me that very expensive american made missiles can't differentiate between fighters, hospitals and schools.[/QUOTE] Bombing civilians and the use of incendiary weapons are not war crimes for Israel. They never signed protocol one or two of the Geneva conventions and Hamas doesn't adhere to the conventions, despite Palestine having technically adopted every protocol. This generally removes the restrictions on civilian targets. Incendiary weapons are banned by the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons, of which Israel is a party, but that has five protocols and only two must be agreed to. Israel did not agree to the ban on incendiary weapons. (The US doesn't agree to a ban on mines or incendiary weapons because you are fucking stupid if you do.) So the reality of the situation is that Hamas is technically committing war crimes while Israel is technically not. What they are doing is restricted by treaty, while Israel never agreed to that shit in the first place. I'm passing no judgement here in either direction, merely stating what is. Welcome to the wonderful world of international law. Basically any time you want to use the word "war crime": Don't. It is bullshit.
[QUOTE=Viper123_SWE;49663329]Then there's Israel, like before keep in mind I'm not calling Israel evil or something but you have a bunch of people in high places which seem to argue that firing rockets into a dense urban population is a smart thing to do when in reality it only spreads more hate.[/QUOTE] I'm going to set up rocket tubes in a playground and when you retaliate against multiple firings, I win because I also let my child play on the swingset.
[QUOTE=GunFox;49669954] Welcome to the wonderful world of international law. Basically any time you want to use the word "war crime": Don't. It is bullshit.[/QUOTE] Alright, fair enough. I'll redact my statement to "absolutely heinous crimes against civilians that any first-world country should be fucking ashamed of" [editline]5th February 2016[/editline] I was basing the "war crimes" part off of [url]https://www.hrw.org/news/2009/03/25/israel-white-phosphorus-use-evidence-war-crimes[/url]
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