[video=youtube;zCJg91Bg7aI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCJg91Bg7aI[/video]
IMO he has a strong argument (I too sided with the Railroad and saw Synth's as real people, however I never even interacted with synth-Shaun before the self destruct) the main point of failure comes down to Father's lack of characterization and poor writing on Bethesda's part.
Father came off as sentimental yes, he wanted to spend time with the PC and try to rekindle your relationship. And it was strongly setup that he viewed Synths as nothing but mere machines explicitly said and with Father's obvious god complex (He could've saved the PC, but choose to see "what happened" as the PC endured the wasteland). This characterization just felt so opposite to the Holotapes that Synth Shaun gives you.
[B]TL;DR:[/B] If Bethesda wanted to make this work, it should've been that you could convince Father that Synths are people or at the very least have Father question/sprinkle some doubt on his choices, that would've given loads more gravitas to this whole dilemma but in the end it kinda fell flat.
My response to this is holy fuck oxhorn is making videos still?
the only acceptable option is to kill all synths, ad victoriam
down with the robot menace!
this games story is abysmal
I just sided with the brotherhood because at least being a wastemarine is fun
Is a synth child, or any synth for that matter, even capable of growing? Would synth shaun stay a child forever? How would this translate to him emotionally, seeing his guardian over the years grow old, wither away, and die while still remaining a child? Is it possible for synth shaun to pass away before his last surviving parent? For example, can a synth die from starvation or old age or some battery or part running out of juice or being worn out? What about the fact that the programmed belief that synth shaun holds that you are his parent is a lie? What good is living a lie if one would rather deal with the truth? Perhaps he could be seen as a very loose interpretation of a grandchild, since he is the creation of your son.
To circumvent an inability to grow, could his memories be transplanted from his child body into an adult synth body like with what happened with Curie? Due to the destruction of the institute, it is near guaranteed that this new synth body would look nothing like the real Shaun at any stage of his life.
Because of the moral dilemma presented and all of the unanswered questions posed, only one thing can be concluded:
Even in death, the real Shaun does not cease to be a massive fuckup.
Because the real Shaun is a fuckup, anything he has created will inevitably end up fucking things up.
Torch the kid. It is the only way.
[QUOTE=SonicHitman;51493866]this games story is abysmal[/QUOTE]
I thought it was pretty fucking good right until after you kill Kellogg, everything was open ended, a real sense of dread loomed over the Commonwealth like an urban legend that the [I]Institute[/I] was going to take you away to never be seen again. Learning about Kellogg's past in the memory den, learning about Nick's past.
And then they ruined it with this massive clusterfuck and a nuke/no-nuke institute option with no chance of negotiation or real peace.
[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;51494037]I thought it was pretty fucking good right until after you kill Kellogg, everything was open ended, a real sense of dread loomed over the Commonwealth like an urban legend that the [I]Institute[/I] was going to take you away to never be seen again. Learning about Kellogg's past in the memory den, learning about Nick's past.
And then they ruined it with this massive clusterfuck and a nuke/no-nuke institute option with no chance of negotiation or real peace.[/QUOTE]
[sp]There was something that really annoyed me. When I had smashed the Brotherhood and joined the institute, Piper got really mad at me. And I didn't really have any way to tell her that there was no problem. Or at least reach a middle ground, which sucked[/sp]
[QUOTE=gokiyono;51494064][sp]There was something that really annoyed me. When I had smashed the Brotherhood and joined the institute, Piper got really mad at me. And I didn't really have any way to tell her that there was no problem. Or at least reach a middle ground, which sucked[/sp][/QUOTE]
Yeah you can argue that [sp]after your character takes over the institute they can use it to make life better in the commonwealth - far better than any of the other factions can - but there is no option to vocalize this intention to anyone[/sp]
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51493543]the only acceptable option is to kill all synths, ad victoriam[/QUOTE]
I was really disappointed when I walked into the Institute for the first time, in full Brotherhood Gear, fully decked out to slaughter everyone, and the game neither recognized that fact or let me slaughter everyone.
[QUOTE=JesterUK;51494082]Yeah you can argue that [sp]after your character takes over the institute they can use it to make life better in the commonwealth - far better than any of the other factions can - but there is no option to vocalize this intention to anyone[/sp][/QUOTE]
At least the Minutemen/Preston are better than that. [sp]I did all of my Institute missions with Preston, and during Pinned, he could actually see how those minutemen were dickheads.[/sp]
[QUOTE=IrishBandit;51494089]I was really disappointed when I walked into the Institute for the first time, in full Brotherhood Gear, fully decked out to slaughter everyone, and the game neither recognized that fact or let me slaughter everyone.[/QUOTE]
Hell, I had Paladin Danse as a companion for a bit and we waltzed straight through Railroad HQ with no one (not even Danse) making a single remark.
Atleast Nick responded to things and had personality.
[QUOTE=SonicHitman;51493866]this games story is abysmal[/QUOTE]
Fallout 4 was really a massive disappointment. On a technical and artistic level, they did so well in improving the engine, making gameplay feel more satisfying and creating assets that really made the game world absolutely beautiful and compelling. But there's just.. Nothing to do? In New Vegas you're basically tripping over a Vault every 15 minutes, in Fallout 4 there's something like 6 Vaults, one of which being the spawn vault (which has nothing) and the other being the one where you give them a Power Core to get in (which was fucking booooooring, nothing going on there aside from a baby-tier side quest). I've sunk like 200 hours into New Vegas but Fallout 4 gave me no reason to come back after my first 1-2 playthroughs. The story itself is absolutely horrible, the factions are totally uninteresting, and the world itself feels sort of empty and lifeless.
New Vegas had some kind of magic to it where everywhere you went, there was some little clue or hint at a story to be discovered. The situations you encountered and the characters you interacted with had some depth and made you want to explore and find out what was going on behind the scenes. Overall New Vegas felt like I was really in another place with real people and it gave me the sense that there were things happening in the world before my character showed up. Fallout 4 just feels like a video game.
[QUOTE=srobins;51494208]In New Vegas you're basically tripping over a Vault every 15 minutes, in Fallout 4 there's something like 6 Vaults[/QUOTE]
Except New Vegas literally had 6 Vaults, not counting the Securitron Vault.
Yeah though: everything else I've heard about 4 is why I haven't dared to touch it and fall into the same hole as everyone else after the hype died down (that and how its 60$)
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51494242]Except New Vegas literally had 6 Vaults, not counting the Securitron Vault.
Yeah though: everything else I've heard about 4 is why I haven't dared to touch it and fall into the same hole as everyone else after the hype died down (that and how its 60$)[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's more just that the Vaults were more compelling than numerous, but yeah that's a bit of an embarrassing mistake :v:
After Googling, Fallout 4 has 5 Vaults, including the two I mentioned which.. I honestly just don't count. There's just nothing going on in them. The Vaults in New Vegas felt so much more interesting, and it felt like a real treat when you found each one. Maybe my judgement is a bit clouded by nostalgia, New Vegas was like 6 years ago, but still!
fallout 4 is okay, its a more open world-y far cry with much weaker stealth mechanics and gun mechanics and plot and ...
if you play with a min-maxing mindset at all (and i certainly love to do that) your character becomes OP in ~3 hours or so and there's only so much fun to be had from walk to place, encounter group of enemies, explode enemies, move on on infinite loop
[QUOTE=srobins;51494208]Fallout 4 was really a massive disappointment. On a technical and artistic level, they did so well in improving the engine, making gameplay feel more satisfying and creating assets that really made the game world absolutely beautiful and compelling. But there's just.. Nothing to do? In New Vegas you're basically tripping over a Vault every 15 minutes, in Fallout 4 there's something like 6 Vaults, one of which being the spawn vault (which has nothing) and the other being the one where you give them a Power Core to get in (which was fucking booooooring, nothing going on there aside from a baby-tier side quest). I've sunk like 200 hours into New Vegas but Fallout 4 gave me no reason to come back after my first 1-2 playthroughs. The story itself is absolutely horrible, the factions are totally uninteresting, and the world itself feels sort of empty and lifeless.
New Vegas had some kind of magic to it where everywhere you went, there was some little clue or hint at a story to be discovered. The situations you encountered and the characters you interacted with had some depth and made you want to explore and find out what was going on behind the scenes. Overall New Vegas felt like I was really in another place with real people and it gave me the sense that there were things happening in the world before my character showed up. Fallout 4 just feels like a video game.[/QUOTE]
I never even encountered a vault in Fallout 4 besides Vault 81. THAT SAID, I was somewhat of a fan of Vault 81. It annoyed me how the Vaults in 3 and NV were all destroyed and essentially used as another kind of dungeon, where in Fallout 1, 2 of 4 vaults were shown to be fully functional, and in Fallout 2, there was Vault City, a massive city that should be the end result of any control vaults.
I feel like they got carried away with the gimmick in 3 and NV; even if the experiments fuck with people there should be more functioning vaults in spite of that and more vault cities. However Vault 81 was also fucking boring. There weren't much people or areas or quests or services and the whole thing felt small and like there was nothing to do.
FO4 feels like an "experiment" game as in they updated the engine and needed to test it out. It has nifty improvements here and there but no substance. The world feels samey and unimportant. And for an rpg there is very little roleplay.
Bethesda keeps failing again and again trying to force a game that is supposed to be focused on the environment and its hidden secrets to be instead be a game about only one character and hes problems. I hated the story in fallout 4, but I REALLY liked the environment in the game, finding secret stuff and locations. There were plenty of locations in fallout 4 that could have had badass backstories and sidequests if not bethesda were a bunch of lazy shits. Just take those stranded ghoul danish seamen, they could've had a rad sidequest and you'd also learn about what maybe happened in europe during the time but noo gotta focus on finding your fucking son.
[QUOTE=freaka;51494392]Bethesda keeps failing again and again trying to force a game that is supposed to be focused on the environment and its hidden secrets to be instead be a game about only one character and hes problems. I hated the story in fallout 4, but I REALLY liked the environment in the game, finding secret stuff and locations. There were plenty of locations in fallout 4 that could have had badass backstories and sidequests if not bethesda were a bunch of lazy shits. Just take those stranded ghoul danish seamen, they could've had a rad sidequest and you'd also learn about what maybe happened in europe during the time but noo gotta focus on finding your fucking son.[/QUOTE]
If the next Fallout is about finding your lost family member I give up
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51494360]I never even encountered a vault in Fallout 4 besides Vault 81. THAT SAID, I was somewhat of a fan of Vault 81. It annoyed me how the Vaults in 3 and NV were all destroyed and essentially used as another kind of dungeon, where in Fallout 1, 2 of 4 vaults were shown to be fully functional, and in Fallout 2, there was Vault City, a massive city that should be the end result of any control vaults.
I feel like they got carried away with the gimmick in 3 and NV; even if the experiments fuck with people there should be more functioning vaults in spite of that and more vault cities. However Vault 81 was also fucking boring. There weren't much people or areas or quests or services and the whole thing felt small and like there was nothing to do.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I like the [I]concept[/I] of Vault 81, seeing a Vault that is still operational as intended was really cool at first. The issue is that 81 just feels so empty, like I said before, it just felt like a video game. At least the rusty, dilapidated vaults in New Vegas gave you that sense of like "oh wow, what happened down here? What was the experiment in here, what's all this stuff?". I just remember exploring Vault 81 for like 10 minutes and going, wait, is that all there is? It's been 10 minutes and I've explored every dialogue option and every room of this place, how is that possible?
[editline]7th December 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=freaka;51494392]Bethesda keeps failing again and again trying to force a game that is supposed to be focused on the environment and its hidden secrets to be instead be a game about only one character and hes problems. I hated the story in fallout 4, but I REALLY liked the environment in the game, finding secret stuff and locations. There were plenty of locations in fallout 4 that could have had badass backstories and sidequests if not bethesda were a bunch of lazy shits. Just take those stranded ghoul danish seamen, they could've had a rad sidequest and you'd also learn about what maybe happened in europe during the time but noo gotta focus on finding your fucking son.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, really, this! There were so many locations where I was like "oh man, I bet there's gonna be a really sick storyline to discover here!", but nope! It's just a nice little setpiece for you to kill ghouls. Thanks Bethesda, I really needed more shooting, I wasn't getting enough with the hourly visits to Cordova Manufacturing Plant.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;51494369]FO4 feels like an "experiment" game as in they updated the engine and needed to test it out. It has nifty improvements here and there but no substance. The world feels samey and unimportant. And for an rpg there is very little roleplay.[/QUOTE]
This too! There were virtually zero chances to actually roleplay because your character was already defined for you. The voiced protagonist was probably the dumbest idea they ever had. Who played through New Vegas and thought "boy, I sure am tired of having all these dialogue options! It really is a drag getting to decide what kind of attitude and personality my character has!"?? The voiced protagonist and console-ized dialogue system just made it so that not only do you have fewer options in dialogue, but even when you pick something you thought would be appropriate, the VA would deliver it in the most inappropriate way possible. Half the time I tried taking dialogue seriously instead of just hitting the obvious "right" choice, I'd pick something I thought was sympathetic and respectable and my character would sneer and say some shit like "yeah, [I]real drag[/I] your whole family got slaughtered by Raiders, loser :P".
[QUOTE=SonicHitman;51493866]this games story is abysmal[/QUOTE]
Story is ass. The game looks nice that's about it.
[QUOTE=srobins;51494208]In New Vegas you're basically tripping over a Vault every 15 minutes, in Fallout 4 there's something like 6 Vaults,[/QUOTE]
This line of thinking has always bothered me about the Fallout fandom. There are a very limited number of Vaults in the cannon, with most of them being on the East coast. If they throw 10 vaults into every game we'll run out of possible vaults very quickly.
Fallout 4's problem isn't a lack of vaults (which you have acknowledged above), it's that it does fuck all with them.
Vault 111 is a great idea, a vault full of frozen people could have tied into the main story in a really interesting way, instead it's just used as a tutorial dungeon and an excuse for why you're in the year 2287. If they had expanded it so people were unfrozen in batches over time you could explore the effect that having groups of well educated people who are unprepared for the world have on the development of the area. The Institute could have taken some of those people in, tension could have been built as people who refuse to join the Institute begin to oppose their actions.
Vault 81, a proper, lived in Vault. The kind we haven't seen properly since Fallout 2, could have been a great opportunity for interesting sidequests which revolve around how an insular society copes with living beneath a technologically inferior, but more heavily armed and desperate populace. Instead we got one side quest which involves half the vault residents, the school you can tell a story to, and a ho-hum family drama where the husband is probably cheating on his wife. Also a cat runs away before immediately running back, that quest should have been some wacky hi-jinks as you try to coax the cat home while going through more and more implausibly silly situations.
The other vaults are largely forgettable, with the vault that implies it's the origin of the Gunners being fairly interesting, and the murder mystery vault in Far Harbour being the standout.
Personally I don't care how many vaults are in a game, I just want them to be well done. If a game had one vault but it was a deep, intricate story I'd much prefer that to what Fallout 3 or 4 did, or hell even New Vegas. Vault 22 wasn't a very interesting Vault on its own, it needed the quests that send you in there to be interesting, and Vault 34 was almost entirely shooting hordes of ghouls with little story at all.
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;51494360]I never even encountered a vault in Fallout 4 besides Vault 81. THAT SAID, I was somewhat of a fan of Vault 81. It annoyed me how the Vaults in 3 and NV were all destroyed and essentially used as another kind of dungeon, where in Fallout 1, 2 of 4 vaults were shown to be fully functional, and in Fallout 2, there was Vault City, a massive city that should be the end result of any control vaults.
I feel like they got carried away with the gimmick in 3 and NV; even if the experiments fuck with people there should be more functioning vaults in spite of that and more vault cities. However Vault 81 was also fucking boring. There weren't much people or areas or quests or services and the whole thing felt small and like there was nothing to do.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that's fair to New Vegas.
Vault 34 may be an abandoned dungeon, but that's only because the people decided to leave the vault and take over an Air Force base instead. If they hadn't done that, it'd be a perfectly normal place.
Vault 21 was a perfectly functional and liveable vault just like you describe, until House came along and fucked everything up because he's a dick like that. And hell, even after that there's still people living in what's left and using it as a casino.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;51494554]This line of thinking has always bothered me about the Fallout fandom. There are a very limited number of Vaults in the cannon, with most of them being on the East coast. If they throw 10 vaults into every game we'll run out of possible vaults very quickly.
Fallout 4's problem isn't a lack of vaults (which you have acknowledged above), it's that it does fuck all with them.
Vault 111 is a great idea, a vault full of frozen people could have tied into the main story in a really interesting way, instead it's just used as a tutorial dungeon and an excuse for why you're in the year 2287. If they had expanded it so people were unfrozen in batches over time you could explore the effect that having groups of well educated people who are unprepared for the world have on the development of the area. The Institute could have taken some of those people in, tension could have been built as people who refuse to join the Institute begin to oppose their actions.
Vault 81, a proper, lived in Vault. The kind we haven't seen properly since Fallout 2, could have been a great opportunity for interesting sidequests which revolve around how an insular society copes with living beneath a technologically inferior, but more heavily armed and desperate populace. Instead we got one side quest which involves half the vault residents, the school you can tell a story to, and a ho-hum family drama where the husband is probably cheating on his wife. Also a cat runs away before immediately running back, that quest should have been some wacky hi-jinks as you try to coax the cat home while going through more and more implausibly silly situations.
The other vaults are largely forgettable, with the vault that implies it's the origin of the Gunners being fairly interesting, and the murder mystery vault in Far Harbour being the standout.
Personally I don't care how many vaults are in a game, I just want them to be well done. If a game had one vault but it was a deep, intricate story I'd much prefer that to what Fallout 3 or 4 did, or hell even New Vegas. Vault 22 wasn't a very interesting Vault on its own, it needed the quests that send you in there to be interesting, and Vault 34 was almost entirely shooting hordes of ghouls with little story at all.[/QUOTE]
I thought Vault 75 had a neat concept and a pretty in-depth backstory behind it
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;51494772]Vault 34 may be an abandoned dungeon, but that's only because the people decided to leave the vault and take over an Air Force base instead. If they hadn't done that, it'd be a perfectly normal place.[/QUOTE]
Don't forget that[sp]Chris Haversam[/sp]is implied to be the one that inadvertently caused the whole mess and there are still Vault dwellers trapped inside.
The ending was strikingly sad but honestly overall the story really blew. 4 options for every dialogue really didn't work out, and the inability to see what I was going to say really screwed up some dialogue options. Choose humor? Clearly you wanted to say something really fucked up and insensitive.
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;51494554]
Vault 111 is a great idea, a vault full of frozen people could have tied into the main story in a really interesting way, instead it's just used as a tutorial dungeon and an excuse for why you're in the year 2287. If they had expanded it so people were unfrozen in batches over time you could explore the effect that having groups of well educated people who are unprepared for the world have on the development of the area. The Institute could have taken some of those people in, tension could have been built as people who refuse to join the Institute begin to oppose their actions.
Vault 81, a proper, lived in Vault. The kind we haven't seen properly since Fallout 2, could have been a great opportunity for interesting sidequests which revolve around how an insular society copes with living beneath a technologically inferior, but more heavily armed and desperate populace. Instead we got one side quest which involves half the vault residents, the school you can tell a story to, and a ho-hum family drama where the husband is probably cheating on his wife. Also a cat runs away before immediately running back, that quest should have been some wacky hi-jinks as you try to coax the cat home while going through more and more implausibly silly situations.[/QUOTE]
I read this and thought, "if CDPR made Fallout". The design of therefore/but storytelling adds so much, but it's something Bethesda almost never understands. And it's not a matter of budget, you wrote 2 really compelling sidequests in 2 paragraphs, it's the philosophy of intentionally not overcomplicating things or making the player think, to 'streamline' the whole game into saving Shaun... which would make sense if that was a good story, but OP shows it's not.
Any word on Obsidian being open to a new Fallout?
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;51493543]the only acceptable option is to kill all synths, ad victoriam[/QUOTE]
Thought it was stupid as shit that even the Brotherhood was like [sp]"wtf aren't u going to take the kid with you!?!?"[/sp]
Like motherfucker what are we here for.
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