[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsUs9R3F-R8[/media]
This appeared in my recommended videos, and I thought it was going to be some sort of joke, but it was a pretty short and decent argument instead.
You gotta know the rules to break the rules in a good way. This applies to a lot of things.
its really obvious when some dope has rushed straight to drawing their ~style~ too. I've seen it even here on Facepunch.
the biggest giveaway is when the head clearly hasn't been constructed into a form, or theres those advanced art scrubs that have some REALLY good parts in their work but also some hilariously bad parts. Like great colors, great rendering but the anatomy is totally fucked up. I don't have examples on hand but it's pretty funny to see.
I use my own ideas of characters and environments as motivation to learn the basics of drawings like anatomy, geometry and perspective before creating my own style. Because if I start to create a character at first without knowing anything how to draw, obviously it's going to look like shit (and it does)
[QUOTE=PieClock;52048139]You gotta know the rules to break the rules in a good way. This applies to a lot of things.[/QUOTE]
I remember a Salvador Dali quote, something like:
You must learn to paint like the old masters, and then nobody can ever call you a bad artist.
This is a big thing in my school. Tons of students that draw anime and after 3 years at this school I can honestly say that none of them improved much. There'a nothing wrong with having a style and you should keep that up to stay motivated and happy, but while you do it you should be practicing from reality. It will make your stuff a thousand times better.
I actually have an example of my own art. There's only a year difference between these two pieces, in which I worked mostly on realism.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/LSfWbVp.png[/img]
I think most kids start with a sort of "anime" style before they really have access to classes where they can learn formal elements. My high school art classes didn't really teach me a whole lot, even. except very specific parameters for very specific projects that didn't explain much. Wasn't until college that I started looking more into actually STUDYING art.
I think it's okay as long as they allow themselves room to grow.
Anime can be a great drawing style, it's just you should first understand the fundamentals. Primarily perspective and form.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/sKeCkwH.jpg[/img_thumb]
Word of warning though, do try to do some works from imagination from time to time, lest you face the wrath of the Proko Kangaroo.
I could've sworn I've seen another of this guy's videos linked on FP somewhere.
Yes, of course studying fundamentals will improve your art overall. A lot of kids use anime and "muh style" as a crutch for drawing. And because anime is easy for nerds to get into, there's a flood of really bad art that's never improved upon since they fall back to the claim of "it's my style"
But like the video, I think you should still have something you're interested in as you learn. It's something I still struggle with, the balancing act of studying too much fundamentals and getting burned out vs not studying enough and my other art suffers in comparison. If I had the stamina, I would definitely go all in and study anatomy until I'm at the point where someone might think "his form is pretty decent". But would I still even have the drive to continue whatever it was I started doing this for? I don't know.
I can confirm that being someone who drew and doodled with no guidelines for years, mostly because no one really helped as it was "just a pastime", it just sucked when I realized how badly I drew characters. So I kinda just stumbled my way into drawing, copying various artists with no support.
Because of the bad habits I constructed over time, I have a lot of trouble learning the basics without having some old habit screw the sketch. I have been improving a lot more in past years but I can't say I'm really good with anatomy or strong perspective shots at all.
I'm just glad I met my artist friends and that one serious art teacher who helped a ton over the past 3 years. I still stumble and trip every now and then while others run full speed but at least, I'm no longer going the wrong way.
Don't skip basics! It comes biting back REAL hard.
Maybe some day I'll put that wisdom to use. The quote mentioning needing to know the rules in order to break them reminds me of something my calc professor said in regards to why we needed to learn such complicated content, to which he said: 'You need to know what they know, in order to know what they [I]don't[/I]'. You have to build a foundation and understanding before you can excel and pioneer.
[QUOTE=omarfr;52048720]This is a big thing in my school. Tons of students that draw anime and after 3 years at this school I can honestly say that none of them improved much. There'a nothing wrong with having a style and you should keep that up to stay motivated and happy, but while you do it you should be practicing from reality. It will make your stuff a thousand times better.
I actually have an example of my own art. There's only a year difference between these two pieces, in which I worked mostly on realism.[/QUOTE]
Where are the red noses in reality?
I'm curious, since we're on the subject of art. For someone who doesn't really have the time to take formal art classes, is there any place online where one could learn how to study the fundamentals of drawing people/characters/anatomy? Like, any lengthy tutorial series which walks you through the core concepts and teaches step-by-step what kind of things are worth studying and practicing?
Personally I don't really care. My main goal with drawing isn't to improve, it's to just enjoy it. I'm glad to have my work critiqued and I'll try to apply it but I won't put in the time to do studies and stuff that bores me since I don't consider improvement a priority, for 2D drawing at least. Art teachers should definitely encourage learning the fundamentals over stylisation though.
[QUOTE=froztshock;52049450]I'm curious, since we're on the subject of art. For someone who doesn't really have the time to take formal art classes, is there any place online where one could learn how to study the fundamentals of drawing people/characters/anatomy? Like, any lengthy tutorial series which walks you through the core concepts and teaches step-by-step what kind of things are worth studying and practicing?[/QUOTE]
Free:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/user/ProkoTV/videos[/url] Proko's videos are good
Despite it being 4chan /ic/ is a good resource for everything, just know that everyone is hated.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYXLyantCxfr6uF6zUTxQLg[/url] Is pretty good, very focused on fundamentals.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/user/PhilsDesignCorner/videos[/url] This guy posts all the lectures he does. Lot of environment and perspective work.
Paid:
New Masters Academy is fairly good value. Lots of videos from lots of teachers. It can suffer from too many cooks.
Watts Atelier, very pricey for more focused work. I'd only recommend it if you were very serious about art.
I think gravitation towards anime shit just comes with being born after the late 80s. personally I was growned up on it from my parents, who were early adopters of Japanese media. I think that's something that's just gonna be a thing now. As the older western artists die off, the appeal and hard edgedness of typical Japanese styles are just gonna wash over the whole planet.
I've heard this vid's argument, and I only half buy it. Like, the teachers I've had have hated the work of legitimately talented students who've had too much influence from eastern artists. If you bring the subject up with vets like Bill Plympton or John K, they damn near shit themselves and disappear into their own assholes. Idk what it is. I genuinely believe it's that age/ birth gap.
I've undergone formal art school and shit, but it's funny. I don't think any of my fundimentals really stuck until I stopped drawing and stuff for a while and then returned. My anatomy and proportions now are way better than they were when I was actively in the classes and doing sketches every day. Honestly though, my construction didn't improve nearly as much as my line control.
Me nowish and me about 4 years ago (at this point in college and taking an anatomy course)
[t]https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17202882_1390174784338520_5325885014625215386_n.jpg?oh=1bcf4f55aabfd6384b94acf9c95ce108&oe=599145BB[/t] [t]https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/921614_552132694809404_1003237567_o.jpg?oh=ad09f63a7ac5a189fcaaf8d043398635&oe=5961D44F[/t]
I'm still nowhere near where I'd like to be, but then again I never will be. I'll happily just keep climbing that ladder till I'm dead.
Makes me wonder how many students are being trashed that are like me and have to process shit internally before they can (nearly) thoughtlessly employ it.
i really like that he pointed out how the teacher is in the wrong with the student. like criticism's great and all, and you shouldn't be a yes-man as a teacher, but if you don't actually [I]teach[/I] them what they're doing wrong then of course your student's gonna have trouble.
This video actually explains the exact issue I have with someone I know who draws ~"in their own style"~. It always looked fucking gross and wrong for some reason and I just couldn't figure out why I hated all their work so much. Now I know exactly why I think their work is disgusting. Because it has zero understanding of anatomy and looks like they just drew anime for their entire art education.
It's one of the main reasons why I've nearly given up. I've learnt some shitty habits and now the feeling of having to unlearn it and begin from scratch is just demoralizing. It's what I get for being a late starter I guess.
I haven't drawn since elementary school, and i'm in college, but I've been thinking of picking up art as a hobby. I probably would have fallen into this exact pit.
[url=http://drawabox.com/][img]http://drawabox.com/images/general/logo.png[/img][/url]
is a great resource for fundamentals.
Paired with the [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/]reddit community dedicated to helping each other with the lessons and providing critique[/url], it's definitely something worth taking a look at.
[QUOTE=Rexxasaurus;52049819]It's one of the main reasons why I've nearly given up. I've learnt some shitty habits and now the feeling of having to unlearn it and begin from scratch is just demoralizing. It's what I get for being a late starter I guess.[/QUOTE]
The good thing is, you don't have to start from scratch! You can take what you know and just turn it on its head. You can still apply the things you know but add onto the knowledge with more fundamental stuff.
Here's some honest sharing. When I first started drawing, I started drawing dogs that I copied from some popular DA artists. The dogs looked like hot garbage mutants but I thought they were awesome because the GREAT artists were drawing that way.
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/wgth22g2r8tieep/chrome_2017-04-02_19-45-48.png[/t]
That was the first thing I drew digitally. With MSPaint.
So when I started actually learning how to draw animals, I looked at real pictures and compared them to how I was already doing things. I figured out that dogs sure as shit don't have two toes, GENERALLY have visible mouths and two eyes, and aren't rainbow colored. But the general form was KIND OF the same as what I KIND OF had already done.
Anyway. It's easy to build on stuff and make small corrections as you go. I know it seems daunting to go back and try to learn again, but I've always been of a mind that anyone can learn to draw or paint or do any kind of art. Not everyone can be GREAT at it but everyone can manage to make something they can be proud of.
I actually re-drew two little dogs I drew when I was like 13 a couple weeks ago to see the difference in what I'd learned. I'm still learning obviously lol but it was a fun practice.
[t]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/vurvlhnljo8lg3p/chrome_2017-04-02_19-48-26.png[/t]
You're all allowed to make furry jokes.
[editline]2nd April 2017[/editline]
For reference, 13-year-old me was like... twelve years ago? So that's my progression time. It takes a while.
I didn't fully grasp the importance of understanding how the real world works and art fundamentals until just over a year ago, after spending years doing hideous drawings and getting laughed at for it.
I'm still pretty bad at art, but I've learned a lot and things are only just starting to click. I just need the motivation to give it my all and actually study every day.
[t]http://i.imgur.com/c8MudHr.png[/t][t]http://i.imgur.com/RhbTKFb.png[/t]
The left was drawn from a reference in 2015, the right was drawn from imagination in 2017. Even though I didn't use any reference photo for the drawing on the right I still have more understanding of form, proportion and anatomy than I did a couple years ago therefore doesn't look AS BAD.
Avoid the Prokoroo. Apply everything you learn!
My art class was more about drawing dumb abstract stuff like this
[img]http://www.777a7.com/img126/oaypqgbmymjbxirxnskm.jpg[/img]
and making pottery vases. We never learned a bit of anatomy or never even drew a human figure. Our teacher was a huge bitch as well.
Is it possible to make a career exclusively drawing swords? I was pretty good at it in primary school
Still better than what I was drawing when I picked up the pencil again 3 years ago.
[img_thumb]http://i.imgur.com/nVsntLr.png[/img_thumb]
Though with all the resources I have now, its all a matter of actually putting them to use and the practice.
But one day I hope to make my own webcomic to tell everyone a story.
[QUOTE=slayer20;52050662]My art class was more about drawing dumb abstract stuff like this
[img]http://www.777a7.com/img126/oaypqgbmymjbxirxnskm.jpg[/img]
and making pottery vases. We never learned a bit of anatomy or never even drew a human figure. Our teacher was a huge bitch as well.[/QUOTE]
My art teacher basically knew fuck all about art and basically tried to teach us his bad habits. His folio showed some mediocre art he made in PS in about 2000.
I was really disappointing because I was hoping to have a teacher that'd help me learn anatomy fundamentals. What a waste of money.
My drawing style is rather poor because I hardly ever put in time to actually draw something right, and tend to just go for messy pen doodles. Those have a ton of problems, the most annoying of which is the fact that most lines look the same at specific sizes of the drawing, so you can't just make important lines thicker, and I am a sucker for line detail on faces. With pencils, it can work well because of diversity of pencils, going from at least 8H for incredibly faint lines to 8B for Thicc Shadows. But with pen, it just makes any body appear to be at least two decades older.
So, throughout most of my drawings, I have sat back with my favorite subjects of machinery/technology and mostly amorphous/curving creatures (aliens, mutants, et cetera). I still hold onto my old drawings, because while some of them are good, most of them just have good ideas, which I want to redo right some day.
[t]http://img02.deviantart.net/7fe7/i/2010/163/2/e/riot_cop_by_gufu1992.png[/t]
I guess the fact that I drew this 7 years ago, makes me feel a little better. Although, I don't have anything to show theses days, for it.
For now, I can at best make people who don't draw feel slightly jealous and that's it. I've been trying to see if I can do any better in digital art, but aside from tool-related difficulties (dat 4 by 6 space) which makes the process feel ridiculously long in comparison to drawing on paper, I feel like I am literally on the same level as Sparkledog McMsPaint artists, and it just makes me not even want to improve a picture (the main benefit of digital art), much less try again.
[QUOTE=slayer20;52050662]My art class was more about drawing dumb abstract stuff like this
[img]http://www.777a7.com/img126/oaypqgbmymjbxirxnskm.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
To be honest, proper and well done shading gives me a hard on no matter what the subject matter of a picture is. Besides, certainly better than drawing a shaded cube for 100 times.
[QUOTE=Minelayer;52050362][url=http://drawabox.com/][img]http://drawabox.com/images/general/logo.png[/img][/url]
is a great resource for fundamentals.
Paired with the [url=https://www.reddit.com/r/ArtFundamentals/]reddit community dedicated to helping each other with the lessons and providing critique[/url], it's definitely something worth taking a look at.[/QUOTE]
Hell no.
[t]http://i.4cdn.org/ic/1490560401572.png[/t]
from /ic/
I can't even draw and even I can critique this guy.
[QUOTE=gufu;52050767]To be honest, proper and well done shading gives me a hard on no matter what the subject matter of a picture is. Besides, certainly better than drawing a shaded cube for 100 times.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, drawing cubes in different orientations and perspectives as practice can be extremely helpful in the long run.
The following is a lecture from Kim Jung Gi, unfortunately there aren't subtitles but it can be inferred what he is demonstrating.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP06EHog8B0[/media]
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;52050768]Hell no.
[t]http://i.4cdn.org/ic/1490560401572.png[/t]
from /ic/
I can't even draw and even I can critique this guy.[/QUOTE]
Draw a box isn't terrible in terms of exercises or concepts, it's just the guy who runs it isn't great in terms of skills.
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