Sargon's Ridiculous Petition [activism intensifies] - General

[video=youtube;ckXVqDysrvs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckXVqDysrvs[/video] Dude's on point like a period in my opinion. [URL="https://www.change.org/p/universities-suspend-social-justice-in-universities"]Link to the Petition[/URL] [QUOTE][B]This petition will be delivered to: [/B]UNIVERSITIES [/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=axelord157;50190652][video=youtube;ckXVqDysrvs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckXVqDysrvs[/video] Dude's on point like a period in my opinion. [URL="https://www.change.org/p/universities-suspend-social-justice-in-universities"]Link to the Petition[/URL][/QUOTE] Sargon already responded. [video=youtube;xxU_DZUfzBg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxU_DZUfzBg[/video]

[QUOTE=dannylammy;50191147]Sargon already responded. [video=youtube;xxU_DZUfzBg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxU_DZUfzBg[/video][/QUOTE] lmao what a fucking dumbass

both of these videos are so insufferably condescending and pretentious that i can't watch more than 2 minutes of either

Here's a video with an actual discussion on the matter. It's long and the at 120 minutes it becomes very cringey. [video=youtube;Xh-CnhtU2eo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh-CnhtU2eo[/video]

Is that communist propaganda on his wall? :v:

Signed the petition; hopefully this will lead to a greater discussion on the topic.

Can this shit just die already?

Are any of these videos worth watching? I stopped following this shitstorm a while ago and I haven't clicked on either of videos yet.

[QUOTE=Zyler;50192042]Are any of these videos worth watching? I stopped following this shitstorm a while ago and I haven't clicked on either of videos yet.[/QUOTE] You can watch the first 5 minutes of one video and get a pretty good understanding of what's going on. It's all padded out with "universities do/don't exist to be soapbox" debates.

[QUOTE=Zyler;50192042]Are any of these videos worth watching? I stopped following this shitstorm a while ago and I haven't clicked on either of videos yet.[/QUOTE] considering sargon is an insufferable retard... no.

"Libertarian Socialist Rants" is dumb but I do believe the core part of his argument, that Sargon and the people who would sign a petition like this wouldn't stop at simply removing classes called "Social Justice". This leaves many classes and teachers who don't specifically label themselves as "social justice" to continue pushing what Sargon and Co would see as indoctrination. I think what is closer to the truth is that they want a complete audit of universities and essentially get rid of anyone or anything that goes too far in their eyes. Which isn't even a bad thing necessarily, maybe sociology in higher education does need some pruning. I'm not sure. I just wish he would be more genuine about what he wants.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50192596]"Libertarian Socialist Rants" is dumb but I do believe the core part of his argument, that Sargon and the people who would sign a petition like this wouldn't stop at simply removing classes called "Social Justice". This leaves many classes and teachers who don't specifically label themselves as "social justice" to continue pushing what Sargon and Co would see as indoctrination. I think what is closer to the truth is that they want a complete audit of universities and essentially get rid of anyone or anything that goes too far in their eyes. Which isn't even a bad thing necessarily, maybe sociology in higher education does need some pruning. I'm not sure. I just wish he would be more genuine about what he wants.[/QUOTE] I think it's a little disingenuous to decide what it is exactly what he wants when he's extremely clear what exactly it is that he wants. He draws a very clear line between universities teaching things he disagrees with and universities teaching things that are factually and demonstrably untrue. I am willing to believe that Sargon is obnoxious and belligerent enough that if he meant what it is you think he means, he would say it. He doesn't strike me as duplicitous.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50192630]I think it's a little disingenuous to decide what it is exactly what he wants when he's extremely clear what exactly it is that he wants. He draws a very clear line between universities teaching things he disagrees with and universities teaching things that are factually and demonstrably untrue. I am willing to believe that Sargon is obnoxious and belligerent enough that if he meant what it is you think he means, he would say it. He doesn't strike me as duplicitous.[/QUOTE] I don't think he is being duplicitous, I just think he isn't entirely sure of what he wants. The petition itself is very general and in an off the cuff, 2am rebuttal he says that he wants to only suspend specifically Social Justice courses. But then he goes on rants about people and classes that aren't social justice courses. He specifically says Melissa Click (who was a media professor) and people like them shouldn't be allowed to teach. Which I again don't even completely disagree with. But I don't believe for a second that he would stop there, and I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of the signers on of the petition wouldn't either. This isn't even spitballing, you can just read the comments on the petition page. [editline]24th April 2016[/editline] For the record, I don't think it would go as far as LSR assumes it will, where Sargon would generally destroy the humanities, arts, and sociology courses. But I simply don't believe Sargon would advocate stopping where he says he would stop, and this is coming from someone who has watched a lot of his content.

Sargon can be beligerent and distasteful, but he also often makes some good points. His main thing is more a less that "Social Justice" has gone so far towards trying to make things just that they, by virtue of their worldview, actually have paradoxically made everything about identity politics. For some reason it sometimes seems like they're racists, but in a different way. Generally inconsistent and questionable policies supported by SJWs are what he concentrates on. But, like I said, he can sometimes go into a rant and start embodying the first two adjectives I mentioned.

:snip:

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;50192687]I hate how people think that Universities are [B][I][U]infested with ES JAY DOUBLE Us,[/U][/I][/B] because they really aren't. Oberlin College (probably the most liberal/"infested" college) is nearby where I live and we frequently visit because my brother goes there. And in all of my time visiting that place I have never seen these "crazy zealots" that people talk about. Sure there are some cringy people, but most people are just fine. for fucks sakes, the "anti-sjws" are becoming more vocal than the SJWs themselves.[/QUOTE] Your anecdotes are worth as much as the "vocal anti-sjw" ones are. I've seen plenty of real life SJW shit and I live in a post-soviet country for god's sake. Your condescending tone (infested with ES JAY DOUBLE Us) does not help, you should make a youtube video, you'd fit right in with the crowd.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50192647]I don't think he is being duplicitous, I just think he isn't entirely sure of what he wants. The petition itself is very general and in an off the cuff, 2am rebuttal he says that he wants to only suspend specifically Social Justice courses. But then he goes on rants about people and classes that aren't social justice courses. He specifically says Melissa Click (who was a media professor) and people like them shouldn't be allowed to teach. Which I again don't even completely disagree with. But I don't believe for a second that he would stop there, and I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of the signers on of the petition wouldn't either. This isn't even spitballing, you can just read the comments on the petition page. [editline]24th April 2016[/editline] For the record, I don't think it would go as far as LSR assumes it will, where Sargon would generally destroy the humanities, arts, and sociology courses. But I simply don't believe Sargon would advocate stopping where he says he would stop, and this is coming from someone who has watched a lot of his content.[/QUOTE] He isn't planning on doing anything to universities against their will. The point of the petition isn't to force universities to shut down these courses, it's to call attention to the fact that there's a problem. It works under the assumption that universities want to maintain a certain standard of quality, and that if it's drawn to their attention that certain classes don't meet that standard, they'll reform them. It isn't like Sargon plans on rolling in with his goon squad to steal their safe space stickers. It's just calling attention to a problem.

[QUOTE=Lord of Boxes;50192687]I hate how people think that Universities are [B][I][U]infested with ES JAY DOUBLE Us,[/U][/I][/B] because they really aren't. Oberlin College (probably the most liberal/"infested" college) is nearby where I live and we frequently visit because my brother goes there. And in all of my time visiting that place I have never seen these "crazy zealots" that people talk about. Sure there are some cringy people, but most people are just fine. for fucks sakes, the "anti-sjws" are becoming more vocal than the SJWs themselves.[/QUOTE] Sargon didn't say every single one, hell, hes mostly talking about a vocal minority that happens to get way too much attention and have changes that if looked at, would be considered racist, sexist etc if it wasn't getting sugarcoated to seem like its social progress.

[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50192716]Your anecdotes are worth as much as the "vocal anti-sjw" ones are. I've seen plenty of real life SJW shit and I live in a post-soviet country for god's sake. Your condescending tone (infested with ES JAY DOUBLE Us) does not help, you should make a youtube video, you'd fit right in with the crowd.[/QUOTE] Ok, I'll admit that I did come on a little strong, but it just peeves me off when people talk like it's a big issue and that they are some sort of saint for addressing it. There's always gonna be mislead people with good ideals but terrible ways of carrying them out. I just wish these people would realise that.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50192743]He isn't planning on doing anything to universities against their will. The point of the petition isn't to force universities to shut down these courses, it's to call attention to the fact that there's a problem. It works under the assumption that universities want to maintain a certain standard of quality, and that if it's drawn to their attention that certain classes don't meet that standard, they'll reform them. It isn't like Sargon plans on rolling in with his goon squad to steal their safe space stickers. It's just calling attention to a problem.[/QUOTE] I don't think he would personally get hands on with the process, and I don't think I ever implied that he would do it by force (with what apparatus even?) but I think it's safe to assume that in Sargons dream world where universities respond to this petition, the optimal situation (in his eyes) would be the one I described where they don't limit themselve simply to classes labeled "Social Justice". This is based again almost entirely off of what he has said in the past, and his very rebuttal video posted in this thread.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50192760]I don't think he would personally get hands on with the process, and I don't think I ever implied that he would do it by force (with what apparatus even?) but I think it's safe to assume that in Sargons dream world where universities respond to this petition, the optimal situation (in his eyes) would be the one I described where they don't limit themselve simply to classes labeled "Social Justice". This is based again almost entirely off of what he has said in the past, and his very rebuttal video posted in this thread.[/QUOTE] I see no reason not to believe him when he says he's fine with universities teaching whatever they want, so long as demonstrably incorrect information and baselessly asserted philosophical ideas aren't taught as incontrovertible fact. Yes, maybe there are other areas in certain universities where that is an issue, and I'm willing to bet he'd also like to see that resolved(as would I). But the reason we're talking about social justice courses specifically is that this is clearly a larger and more evident problem in that area of academics.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50192825]I see no reason not to believe him when he says he's fine with universities teaching whatever they want, so long as demonstrably incorrect information and baselessly asserted philosophical ideas aren't taught as incontrovertible fact. Yes, maybe there are other areas in certain universities where that is an issue, and I'm willing to bet he'd also like to see that resolved(as would I). But the reason we're talking about social justice courses specifically is that this is clearly a larger and more evident problem in that area of academics.[/QUOTE] I'll readily admit that I don't have anything but my gut instincts to go off of when doubting Sargon's position and prospects. I also don't think he is fine with universities teaching whatever they want at all. This is demonstrably true based on his previous work. That's the entire reason I find it hard to believe he would want universities to stop there. I don't believe for a second that he and people who signed this petition would be okay with gender studies and critical race theory continuing to be taught as courses, which is again, totally fine. Maybe there is some merit to that idea. The problem is that when it comes to sociology things become murky because it's not a hard science like sociology and humanities courses often are. You are dealing less with demonstrably incorrect information and incontrovertible fact, and the idea of a "baselessly asserted philosophical idea" is incredibly vague. All philosophical ideas started off as baseless. Taking Sargons point about the book about race, the idea that government should administer the rule of law to individuals regardless of ethnic background was at one time a baselessly asserted philosophical idea that is now generally assumed by most people in the west. At the very least, western liberals of which I mean the classical sort of liberal that Sargon, me, and presumably you could be described as.

I am an archeology major and this man has ruined the Akkadian Empire for me. now i must study other periods in ancient Mesopotamian history

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50192884]I'll readily admit that I don't have anything but my gut instincts to go off of when doubting Sargon's position and prospects. I also don't think he is fine with universities teaching whatever they want at all. This is demonstrably true based on his previous work. That's the entire reason I find it hard to believe he would want universities to stop there. I don't believe for a second that he and people who signed this petition would be okay with gender studies and critical race theory continuing to be taught as courses, which is again, totally fine. Maybe there is some merit to that idea. The problem is that when it comes to sociology things become murky because it's not a hard science like sociology and humanities courses often are. You are dealing less with demonstrably incorrect information and incontrovertible fact, and the idea of a "baselessly asserted philosophical idea" is incredibly vague. All philosophical ideas started off as baseless. Taking Sargons point about the book about race, the idea that government should administer the rule of law to individuals regardless of ethnic background was at one time a baselessly asserted philosophical idea that is now generally assumed by most people in the west. At the very least, western liberals of which I mean the classical sort of liberal that Sargon, me, and presumably you could be described as.[/QUOTE] Someone can not like something and still accept that it has the right to exist. I don't like religion, but that doesn't mean I'm against religious studies. What I'm against is religion being preached under the guise of religious studies, and students being pushed to adopt that religion and proselytize to others by the teacher. When students are being actively and purposefully directed by their teachers to adopt specific world views and act in specific ways, I think that's when you have a real problem. The problem isn't that someone is saying "this philosopher thinks racial discrimination is okay", it's that they're saying "racial discrimination is okay and you all need to do it to improve society". That's why these things need to be reformed. You have this group of teachers that's selling what is at best philosophy to students as a matter of absolute truth. And what we get out of it are chronically anxious, belligerent, bigoted students who believe they're justified in using unjust means to fight against the dystopian world they've been told they live in. It just can't keep going like this.

[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50192965]When students are being actively and purposefully directed by their teachers to adopt specific world views and act in specific ways, I think that's when you have a real problem. The problem isn't that someone is saying "this philosopher thinks racial discrimination is okay", it's that they're saying "racial discrimination is okay and you all need to do it to improve society". That's why these things need to be reformed. You have this group of teachers that's selling what is at best philosophy to students as a matter of absolute truth. And what we get out of it are chronically anxious, belligerent, bigoted students who believe they're justified in using unjust means to fight against the dystopian world they've been told they live in. It just can't keep going like this.[/QUOTE] Exactly! The problem is not the courses themselves, I'm fine with all courses being taught. It's the way they are being taught that I have a problem with. I don't know what it's like in England or USA but I have been to gender "science" courses here and it's basically one person shoving all their personal beliefs down the students throats. You can voice your disagreement but then the teacher will either say "we'll talk about it after class" or they will make an example out of you and you'll probably find yourself without a whole lot of friends among your classmates and the teacher won't be very fond of you. I don't like the way Sargon expresses himself sometimes and I don't know if he has some ulterior motive but there needs to be a change in the structure of these classes.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;50192884]I'll readily admit that I don't have anything but my gut instincts to go off of when doubting Sargon's position and prospects. I also don't think he is fine with universities teaching whatever they want at all. This is demonstrably true based on his previous work. That's the entire reason I find it hard to believe he would want universities to stop there. I don't believe for a second that he and people who signed this petition would be okay with gender studies and critical race theory continuing to be taught as courses, which is again, totally fine. Maybe there is some merit to that idea. The problem is that when it comes to sociology things become murky because it's not a hard science like sociology and humanities courses often are. You are dealing less with demonstrably incorrect information and incontrovertible fact, and the idea of a "baselessly asserted philosophical idea" is incredibly vague. All philosophical ideas started off as baseless. Taking Sargons point about the book about race, the idea that government should administer the rule of law to individuals regardless of ethnic background was at one time a baselessly asserted philosophical idea that is now generally assumed by most people in the west. At the very least, western liberals of which I mean the classical sort of liberal that Sargon, me, and presumably you could be described as.[/QUOTE] Wage gap as in "women are paid 30% (or whatever the number is) less for the same job" is demonstrably incorrect information taught as fact. "1 in 4 women on college campuses will be raped" is demonstrably incorrect information taught as fact. Any political stance based on these things is wrong and shouldn't be taught as what EVERYONE should be doing or else they are a terrible person. Black and mexican students should not be taught by white teachers that they will never achieve anything in their life because their white peers will hold them down since all white people are at the very least implicitly racist. I don't know if you've watched the long vid but he explicitly explained multiple times that he wants universities to suspend these courses to revise them, meaning removing the demonstrably incorrect information from them. And getting rid of solicitation to activism from these courses. Universities should be about teaching people and not putting ideals in their heads.

[QUOTE=person11;50192934]I am an archeology major and this man has ruined the Akkadian Empire for me. now i must study other periods in ancient Mesopotamian history[/QUOTE] If you were actually serious about "someone I dislike likes a thing I like and thus it is ruined 4EVARS" it would make you a complete moron and it would thus be a very good thing you aren't attempting to objectively study cultures not your own, because you aren't even kind of qualified. If you were actually serious.

I've watched the video from OP and wow what a stupid misrepresentation of Sargon's position. He doesn't mean get rid of everything that mentions something that could be regarded as "social justice". There are courses called Social Justice. This is what he means when he says "social justice course". There are professors calling themselves "Social Justice Professors" or professors who teach "social justice". This is who he means when he says "social justice professors". Getting rid of creationism from biology class is not censorship. Getting rid of flat earth idea from cosmology class is not censorship. Getting rid of demonstrably incorrect information taught as fact from universities is not censorship. I'm talking about the statistics they use to justify their ideology, not the ideology itself. If social justice was taught as some ideology, like Marxism, and not as the only correct ideology that everyone should adopt and if it wasn't based on false statistics, this petition wouldn't exist.

[QUOTE=27X;50193725]If you were actually serious about "someone I dislike likes a thing I like and thus it is ruined 4EVARS" it would make you a complete moron and it would thus be a very good thing you aren't attempting to objectively study cultures not your own, because you aren't even kind of qualified. If you were actually serious.[/QUOTE] why would i be but it is true that the term "sargon of akkad" will remind me of this asshole