[quote=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-40441712]
[B]A clear majority of German MPs have voted to legalise same-sex marriage, days after Chancellor Angela Merkel dropped her opposition to the idea.[/B]
The reform gives gay men and lesbians full marital rights, and allows them to adopt children.
At present, same-sex couples are limited to civil unions.
But Mrs Merkel, who only decided to allow the vote on Monday, voted against the measure. Her political opponents were strongly in favour.
[B]How did Merkel prompt the vote?[/B]
During her 2013 election campaign, Angela Merkel argued against gay marriage on the grounds of "children's welfare," and admitted that she had a "hard time" with the issue.
But at an event hosted by the women's magazine "Brigitte" on 26 June, she shocked the German media by announcing on stage that she had noted other parties' support for it, and would allow a free vote in the future.
The usually-cautious chancellor said she had had a "life-changing experience" in her home constituency, where she had dinner with a lesbian couple who cared for eight foster children together.
As the news spread on Twitter, supporters rallied under the hashtag #EheFuerAlle (MarriageForAll) - and started calling for a vote as soon as possible.
[B]Does gay marriage have popular support? [/B]
Yes - a recent survey by the government's anti-discrimination agency found that 83% of Germans are in favour of marriage equality.
The day after the Republic of Ireland voted to legalise gay marriage in May 2015, almost every German newspaper splashed a rainbow across its front page.
"It's time, Mrs Merkel" Green party leader Katrin Goering-Eckhart exclaimed then. "The Merkel faction cannot just sit out the debate on marriage for everyone."
[B]Why is this happening now?[/B]
Because of an upcoming general election.
Germans go to the polls on 24 September, and the sudden Merkel turnaround will deprive her opponents of a campaign issue.
The Greens, the far-left Linke, and the pro-business Free Democrats all back same-sex marriage. In fact, they have refused to enter a future coalition deal unless reform is agreed on.
Mrs Merkel's current coalition partners - the centre-left Social Democrats (SPD) - have done the same.
The right-wing Alternative for Germany (AfD) is now the only party to oppose same-sex marriage.
Conservatives within Mrs Merkel's party, the Christian Democrats (CDU), are against a change in the law, however.
They have argued that a gay marriage bill would require a change to the constitution, and that marriage between a man and a woman should enjoy special protection.
The CDU's Bavarian sister party, the Christian Social Union (CSU), has also expressed opposition.
Its members champion "traditional" families - and pragmatist Mrs Merkel needs their votes in the September election.
Commentators say this partly explains why she has rejected a vote on marriage equality until now.
[/QUOTE]
[b]393[/b] votes for, [b]226[/b] against, [b]4[/b] abstentions, [b]7[/b] people didn't show up (which is exceptionally few).
The conservatives [I]might[/I] still be able to screw this over if they invoke the Constitutional Court and that decides that marriage, as "protected" (but not defined) by the constitution, can not be redefined by a mere change to the (civil) law that defines marriage - in which case a two-thirds majority to change the constitution would be required, which we could get if the next parliament is even slightly more leftist than this one.
Hopefully it doesn't get screwed over, there really isn't any good reason to oppose this.
i approve of their approval
[QUOTE=Moreto;52417263]Hopefully it doesn't get screwed over, there really isn't any good reason to oppose this.[/QUOTE]
But god said that we shouldn't let gays be gays because they are icky
By the way, about 25% of the Conservatives voted Yes.
[quote]Yes - a recent survey by the government's anti-discrimination agency found that 83% of Germans are in favour of marriage equality.
[/quote]
Kinda retarded that it still isn't legal when THIS MUCH of the population supports it.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;52417287]By the way, about 25% of the Conservatives voted Yes.[/QUOTE]
Damn, why can't our conservatives be like current German(and European) conservatives?
Fools. Right after you've accepted gay marriage, God has unleashed his wrath and flooded your forsaken country
[sp]/s of course
this was a good choice[/sp]
Finally, new land for us to plunder and infect with homo love. We won't rest until all of Germany is as queer as a three euro coin
[sp]Serious note: Congrats Germany![/sp]
Crazy how this was organised in like a week and passed, no bullshitting around
[QUOTE=The golden;52417583]Really unfortunate that Merkel had a "think of the children!!!!!" stance on it but at least she finally came around.[/QUOTE]
She voted against it though
[QUOTE=The golden;52417583]Really unfortunate that Merkel had a "think of the children!!!!!" stance on it but at least she finally came around.[/QUOTE]
As someone else said, she's still against. Just opened up voting for it. I'm guessing she knew the "no" side wouldn't win but she could still have her stance on the matter.
[QUOTE=Hugg;52417606]As someone else said, she's still against. Just opened up voting for it. I'm guessing she knew the "no" side wouldn't win but she could still have her stance on the matter.[/QUOTE]
This way she can appear proggressive and conservative at the same time. She is a very cunning politician.
[QUOTE=Black Pete;52417648]This way she can appear proggressive and conservative at the same time. She is a very cunning politician.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't really seem to have worked out in this case.
Most people on the left seem to be going 'well, finally'.
Anyway, I'm glad this finally went through. It was getting kinda ridiculous.
Congrats Germany! :pride:
Took too long but better late than never :toot:
[QUOTE=ForcedDj;52417416]Damn, why can't our conservatives be like current German(and European) conservatives?[/QUOTE]
Because the rest of the worlds definition of conservative is waaaaaaaaaay different than ours
[QUOTE=Hugg;52417606]As someone else said, she's still against. Just opened up voting for it. I'm guessing she knew the "no" side wouldn't win but she could still have her stance on the matter.[/QUOTE]
She most likely didn't realise at the time that there already was a law change sitting around waiting to be debated in parliament.
Today was the last session of parliament before the next election. If this [I]hadn't[/I] been debated and passed today, it could've become a huge subject in electoral campaigns. The overwhelming popular support for gay marriage could have hurt her party if she didn't do anything about it, whereas actually proclaiming support for it would have alienated the (deeply) conservative voter base.
So by proclaiming it a "decision of conscience" she would've made her side less vulnerable to attack from the left, without pissing off fundie Christians, removed a major roadblock in building the next government*, [I]and[/I] allowed her to criticise the opposition for putting such a "deeply personal decision" in their electoral platforms.
*: After parliamentary elections, parties that would together hold an absolute majority in [I]parliament[/I] come together to form the [I]government[/I]. As part of this process, they write down what's essentially a shared "party line", a not-legally-binding-but-practically-important "contract" on how to vote [I]in parliament[/I]. The current CDU/CSU-SPD government's "contract" includes "no gay marriage". It is for this reason that Germany's left had not been able to enact gay marriage up until now - the SPD, despite being on the left and supporting gay marriage, would've had to vote against it. And shortly before Merkel's recent statement on the matter, some left party (I forget which) loudly proclaimed they would not accept such a clause after the next election.
Merkel was trying to [I]sweep the subject under the rug[/I], but because she did so just a few days too early, it completely backfired.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;52418121][...]
Merkel was trying to [I]sweep the subject under the rug[/I], but because she did so just a few days too early, it completely backfired.[/QUOTE]
Well, she managed to kick it out of most election debates I think. I suspect parts of the CSU are pretty angry about this, though.
[QUOTE=ForcedDj;52417416]Damn, why can't our conservatives be like current German(and European) conservatives?[/QUOTE]
And even with that, they still supported civil unions and whatnot so de facto gays have already pretty much had the same rights iirc.
[quote]During her 2013 election campaign, Angela Merkel argued against gay marriage on the grounds of "children's welfare," and admitted that she had a "hard time" with the issue.[/quote]
I just can't wrap my head around anyone arguing that gay marriage is troublesome for children's welfare, like, at all.
Are you worried that having gay parents will make the kids gay?
If yes, that's not how it works because sexuality isn't a choice. If it was then all the homosexuals from ultra conservative households sure picked the wrong choice, or they just love being oppressed.
Also, if that's what you're worried about, why do you think that being gay is a negative thing?
Are you worried that having gay parents will make the child susceptible to bullying? Because that's also dumb as shit and you should be focusing on preventing bullying altogether, kids will be shit and mean for any reason.
These are the best 'reasons' I can think of off the top of my head, but I honestly would love to know, what is the bullshit that these people spew while somehow calling it a valid perspective with a straight face?
[B]Wouldn't it be simpler to just be honest and say that you hate gay people and they make you uncomfortable in general.[/B] Your career in politics would rightfully be over but maybe we don't need garbage people making decisions about things.
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;52418849]I just can't wrap my head around anyone arguing that gay marriage is troublesome for children's welfare, like, at all.
[...]
Are you worried that having gay parents will make the child susceptible to bullying? Because that's also dumb as shit and you should be focusing on preventing bullying altogether, kids will be shit and mean for any reason.[/QUOTE]
Statistically, the vast majority of people grew up in a standard nuclear family with a straight couple, with a number with a single parent, either due to death or divorce and some with none or foster parent(s). Having 2 parents of the same sex is [I]a bit[/I] alien to most people. Additionally, a lot of people's first thought when thinking of same-sex couples is not "mom and mom" or "dad and dad" but "sexual deviants". Gay pride parades don't exactly help in that regard in my opinion.
A lot of people are also uncomfortable with [URL="http://nypost.com/2017/04/05/hotel-calls-police-after-mistaking-father-for-pedophile/"]single men being around kids[/URL], and although I believe it's related, it's a whole another subject that I probably shouldn't dig into at this point.
[QUOTE=Menien Goneld;52418849][B]Wouldn't it be simpler to just be honest and say that you hate gay people and they make you uncomfortable in general.[/B] Your career in politics would rightfully be over but maybe we don't need garbage people making decisions about things.[/QUOTE]
Just because you're uncomfortable around people different than you, that doesn't inherently mean you hate them and that you're a horrible person, just uninformed.
Of course, if you're misinformed - which is more often than not the case, since your first exposure to something new is either news or word of mouth - that can quickly turn into unfounded hate.
[QUOTE=Murkrow;52419223]Statistically, the vast majority of people grew up in a standard nuclear family with a straight couple, with a number with a single parent, either due to death or divorce and some with none or foster parent(s). Having 2 parents of the same sex is [I]a bit[/I] alien to most people. Additionally, a lot of people's first thought when thinking of same-sex couples is not "mom and mom" or "dad and dad" but "sexual deviants". Gay pride parades don't exactly help in that regard in my opinion.
A lot of people are also uncomfortable with [URL="http://nypost.com/2017/04/05/hotel-calls-police-after-mistaking-father-for-pedophile/"]single men being around kids[/URL], and although I believe it's related, it's a whole another subject that I probably shouldn't dig into at this point.
Just because you're uncomfortable around people different than you, that doesn't inherently mean you hate them and that you're a horrible person, just uninformed.
Of course, if you're misinformed - which is more often than not the case, since your first exposure to something new is either news or word of mouth - that can quickly turn into unfounded hate.[/QUOTE]
Because it's different and because people think same-sex couples are all perverts are not good reasons. They fall apart with the smallest amount of scrutiny and actual information on the matter.
People assuming a man with a child must be a pedophile is horrible and a prejudicial practice that needs to stop.
This position would be expected of a misinformed person, but I hold elected officials to a higher standard than that, there is no reason that they should be misinformed about the issues that they are voting to decide on.
I had no idea Merkel was anti-gay, my respect for her just vanished
snip
Just in time for pride
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