This sounds standard fare for OIF 1. It was an absolutely lawless and chaotic time. This was the time of pretty much no ROE (Rules of Engagment). I have heard my sergeants describe it as "The Wild West" on several occasions. Thank goodness nowadays this stuff does not happen anymore really. We really reigned in our operations and conduct. If only we did that sooner rather than it taking a few years, then maybe we could have been much more successful.
Did this guy get in trouble?
This is so old that when was made Bush was in office and we were still in Iraq.
[QUOTE=galenmarek;40824246]This is so old that when was made Bush was in office and we were still in Iraq.[/QUOTE]
Still relevant - forgetting or ignoring atrocities like these would surely be a crime in itself.
[QUOTE=SKEEA;40821553]Thank goodness nowadays this stuff does not happen anymore really. We really reigned in our operations and conduct. If only we did that sooner rather than it taking a few years, then maybe we could have been much more successful.[/QUOTE]
So you would rather categorize the outfall of better control and ROE as the US military being "more successful" in a strategic respect than the sparing of thousands of innocent lives? I'm sorry, I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but military discourse often strikes me as tremendously unapologetic.
Really nice excuse and all, but he still comitted war crimes. Cant say I feel for him at all.
[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;40825835]Really nice excuse and all, but he still comitted war crimes. Cant say I feel for him at all.[/QUOTE]
That's not the point. The point was that he was being conditioned to commit those warcrimes BY the military. That's why he threw his medals and ribbons and quit. They were all psychologically rebuilt to be aggressive hate-machines for the frontlines. If anything is criminal, it's the use of brainwashing during military training. But who am i Kidding, It's used everywhere in America anyway.
So why exactly people still glorify US's military when it's pretty clear that they've committed plenty of attrocities in countries they've occupied? Absolutely disgusting.
My ex's dad was a big ex military guy..highly ranked too.
he didn't give a single fuck about anything and told us a lot he probably shouldnt
if people actually knew what was going on (besides the usual media stories) they'd probably have a rage induced aneurysm.
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone;40826477]So why exactly people still glorify US's military when it's pretty clear that they've committed plenty of attrocities in countries they've occupied? Absolutely disgusting.[/QUOTE]
Who is glorifying the US military? I hear all the time about how shitty it is not how glorifying it is.
[QUOTE=.FLAP.JACK.DAN.;40826527]Who is glorifying the US military? I hear all the time about how shitty it is not how glorifying it is.[/QUOTE]
The US military love glorifying themselves.
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;40826542]The US military love glorifying themselves.[/QUOTE]
What do you expect? You expect the military to shame themselves?
[QUOTE=Raiskauskone;40826477]So why exactly people still glorify US's military when it's pretty clear that they've committed plenty of attrocities in countries they've occupied? Absolutely disgusting.[/QUOTE]
Every nation commits atrocities in war. Not to excuse this behavior but you probably would too if you were fighting to survive.
[QUOTE=SnakeHead;40826585]Every nation commits atrocities in war. Not to excuse this behavior but you probably would too if you were fighting to survive.[/QUOTE]
if the way that soldiers are trained still allows them to do these horrible things under the wrong circumstances, i'd say they're not trained well enough. atrocities should not be something you do when you think it's necessary, it's something you never, ever do, no matter what.
[QUOTE=Cone;40826643]if the way that soldiers are trained still allows them to do these horrible things under the wrong circumstances, i'd say they're not trained well enough. atrocities should not be something you do when you think it's necessary, it's something you never, ever do, no matter what.[/QUOTE]
Soldiers are trained to kill, bottom line. I don't think any of us can really understand what it's like to be in a life or death situation like they're thrust into.
War itself is the real atrocity.
[QUOTE=SnakeHead;40826585]Every nation commits atrocities in war. Not to excuse this behavior but you probably would too if you were fighting to survive.[/QUOTE]
It's not about survival, it's about power tripping and dehumanization.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsFEV35tWsg[/media]
[QUOTE=NOR_92;40825639]
So you would rather categorize the outfall of better control and ROE as the US military being "more successful" in a strategic respect than the sparing of thousands of innocent lives? I'm sorry, I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but military discourse often strikes me as tremendously unapologetic.[/QUOTE]
The Military's purpose is to win battles. This is probably one of the very few instances in history in where an armed forces has been trying to cater to those they are occupying. Today's military was sure as Hell a lot better trained to deal with locals than it was a decade ago.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;40825913]It's used everywhere in America anyway.[/QUOTE]
Source or are you just gonna talk out of your asshole
[QUOTE=Bomimo;40825913]That's not the point. The point was that he was being conditioned to commit those warcrimes BY the military. That's why he threw his medals and ribbons and quit. They were all psychologically rebuilt to be aggressive hate-machines for the frontlines. If anything is criminal, it's the use of brainwashing during military training. But who am i Kidding, It's used everywhere in America anyway.[/QUOTE]
You literally just described every training method used by every armed forces since Roman times.
You're turning a civilian into a soldier and you blow it out of proportion into thinking that it's a crime.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40828436]You literally just described every training method used by every armed forces since Roman times.
You're turning a civilian into a soldier and you blow it out of proportion into thinking that it's a crime.[/QUOTE]
Not the Scandinavian forces. Sorry. You should study your subject of "every military since roman times" before claiming things like this.
[editline]29th May 2013[/editline]
And that's not really good justification at all.
[editline]29th May 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;40828383]Source or are you just gonna talk out of your asshole[/QUOTE]
Here we are. A person who never attended school or ever watched any "news". I can't blame you for not sensing it, but from an outside perspective in a country with actual objective school curriculums and media, both of yours are seeped through with incompetent narcissists that thrive on fear and exploitation. Or haven't you noticed how you're conditioned to be afraid and angry all of your damn life?
[QUOTE=Bomimo;40828979]Not the Scandinavian forces. Sorry. You should study your subject of "every military since roman times" before claiming things like this.
[editline]29th May 2013[/editline]
And that's not really good justification at all.
[/QUOTE]
The moment you shoot at a target shaped like a human silhouette, you're already being 'indoctrinated' to shoot another person. Like I said, the purpose of the military is to defend territory and to win your country's battles at any given situation, I don't see how Scandinavians get a higher pedestal.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;40828979]
Here we are. A person who never attended school or ever watched any "news". I can't blame you for not sensing it, but from an outside perspective in a country with actual objective school curriculums and media, both of yours are seeped through with incompetent narcissists that thrive on fear and exploitation. Or haven't you noticed how you're conditioned to be afraid and angry all of your damn life?[/QUOTE]
Big talk for the person that's never been inside the United States for more than a month. How can you even make a sound judgement of a country's 'news' and educational standards and at the same time you seem to place your own on an even higher horse. How condescending of you
[QUOTE=Bomimo;40828979]
Here we are. A person who never attended school or ever watched any "news". I can't blame you for not sensing it, but from an outside perspective in a country with actual objective school curriculums and media, both of yours are seeped through with incompetent narcissists that thrive on fear and exploitation. Or haven't you noticed how you're conditioned to be afraid and angry all of your damn life?[/QUOTE]
That's an incredibly ethnocentric view you have.
[QUOTE=Depardieu;40829219]That's an incredibly ethnocentric view you have.[/QUOTE]
He's blinded by his own Scandinavian 'Purity'
Snip
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40828315]The Military's purpose is to win battles. This is probably one of the very few instances in history in where an armed forces has been trying to cater to those they are occupying. Today's military was sure as Hell a lot better trained to deal with locals than it was a decade ago.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't excuse anything. The incompetence of past occupations doesn't justify the "less bad" ones we have today.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;40831999]Doesn't excuse anything. The incompetence of past occupations doesn't justify the "less bad" ones we have today.[/QUOTE]
Just be glad that the Military is actually putting forth steps into trying to make it better. What precedence did the Pentagon take into consideration when they are looking at an occupation of Iraq? Vietnam. That was [b]40 years ago[/b] in a vastly different country with a vastly different culture.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40832571]Just be glad that the Military is actually putting forth steps into trying to make it better. What precedence did the Pentagon take into consideration when they are looking at an occupation of Iraq? Vietnam. That was [b]40 years ago[/b] in a vastly different country with a vastly different culture.[/QUOTE]
Yeah it's not like they prosecute whistleblowers using irrelevant rules made during The Cold War.
[QUOTE=CabooseRvB;40832571]Just be glad that the Military is actually putting forth steps into trying to make it better. What precedence did the Pentagon take into consideration when they are looking at an occupation of Iraq? Vietnam. That was [b]40 years ago[/b] in a vastly different country with a vastly different culture.[/QUOTE]
My point still stands. The invasion of Iraq was one giant war crime, the efforts made attempting to make it "more humane" are ethically invalid because the whole premise is corrupt and devoid of sense.
[QUOTE=NOR_92;40833254]My point still stands. The invasion of Iraq was one giant war crime, the efforts made attempting to make it "more humane" are ethically invalid because the whole premise is corrupt and devoid of sense.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand what war crime means.
[QUOTE=ThePinkPanzer;40833265]I don't think you understand what war crime means.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, invading a country on no concrete grounds isn't a war crime now? Officially it's cited as "pre-emptive self defense", but that didn't hold when they didn't find any weapons of mass destruction. And can you please stop rating me dumb without hearing my arguments? It's childish.
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