• BBC will ‘use Wi-Fi detection vans to catch TV licence evaders’
    61 replies, posted
[QUOTE]The BBC is apparently going to use Wi-Fi detection vans to catch people who don’t pay the TV licence but continue to watch the iPlayer. The organisation’s new system can establish if someone is watching the online service on a PC, mobile device or laptop, according to the National Audit Office. It will do this by using data from Wi-Fi networks in private homes. ‘Detection vans can identify viewing on a non-TV device in the same way that they can detect viewing on a television set,’ the report from the National Audit Office said.[/QUOTE] [url]http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/06/bbc-will-use-wi-fi-detection-vans-to-catch-tv-licence-evaders-6051878/[/url]
Are they aware that wifi is almost universally encrypted?
I'm pretty sure this is mostly a fear tactic like with the old tv license vans back in the day. stupid people will think the bbc has resources and time to waste on sending vans around the country spying on people in the hopes of making them cough up a pittance of money
Yeah fear mongering bullshit - go fuck yourselves BBC.
So what are they going to do. Wardrive and then sniff packets to see if someone's watching iPlayer in their home? Are they going to get a warrant to search every house that has a Wi-Fi network because they could be using the iPlayer? This is some next level bullshit. GLHF breaking WPA-2, unless they will get a list of default Wi-Fi passwords from the ISP and just use that (hint: they won't).
Yeah, that's not a privacy invasion to just show up and start sniffing people's networks. Perhaps they're depending on idiots with unprotected points?
how can you detect if someones watching TV by radio..? what. w h a t. also did the BBC just admit to listening into private internet traffic?
Pretty sure this is some invasion of privacy tier stuff, especially since like 99% of wifi is encrypted.
[QUOTE=download;50848081]Are they aware that wifi is almost universally encrypted?[/QUOTE] From what I understand of how they are supposedly doing it, they don't need to break the encryption, just check timings between the packets and if it's a certain pattern.
[QUOTE=Ripmax;50848099]From what I understand of how they are supposedly doing it, they don't need to break the encryption, just check timings between the packets and if it's a certain pattern.[/QUOTE] the world doesn't work that way
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50848104]the world doesn't work that way[/QUOTE] [url]http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1470734/1/JS%20Atkinson%20-%20Thesis%20-%20Your%20WiFi%20Is%20Leaking,%20Inferring%20Private%20User%20Information%20Despite%20Encryption.pdf[/url] A similar thing has been done using skype.
Ah yes more BBC fear mongering to try and force people to pay the stupid License Fee. I do wish they'd stop with the whole 1984 aesthetic they use in their adverts for that.
[QUOTE=Ripmax;50848114][url]http://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/1470734/1/JS%20Atkinson%20-%20Thesis%20-%20Your%20WiFi%20Is%20Leaking,%20Inferring%20Private%20User%20Information%20Despite%20Encryption.pdf[/url] A similar thing has been done using skype.[/QUOTE] That doesn't explain anything. I don't see any reliability in this method unless they have metrics from all routers, all browsers, all OSes, all streaming services, all TLS implementations, etc.
You can get the mac addresses from devices/routers and SSID even when encrypted, and collect the same data in the iPlayer software, then you can cross reference that to figure out where iPlayer licenses are being used vs where they are registered.
Oh, don't forget about the noise created from having more than one user on the network. [editline]8th August 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Cold;50848125]Pretty sure you can get mac address even from encrypted network packages and SSID from routers, then collect the same data in the iPlayer software, then you can cross reference that to figure out where iPlayer licenses are being used.[/QUOTE] What use are MAC addresses? But yes, you can retrieve the source/destination MAC address despite encryption over WiFi. [editline]8th August 2016[/editline] All you can do with a mac address is determine the manufacturer. You cannot get the mac address in a browser, thus you have nothing to cross reference to, and even if they shared the same mac with data you somehow got (theoretical situation), you cannot tie that to people still using iplayer.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50848124]That doesn't explain anything. I don't see any reliability in this method unless they have metrics from all routers, all browsers, all OSes, all streaming services, all TLS implementations, etc.[/QUOTE] If you know the common packet per second of the iPlayer, or you actually forcefully set iPlayer to do a pattern, they can identify it through transmission. The OS, implementation or router doesn't need to be known. iPlayer will just do a custom communication pattern and a device listening to the rate of encrypted packets can match against that. The speed doesn't even need to be fixed, just the difference between one packet and the last which in time would form a pattern. This could just be overridden by the client tbh.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/RBrhG7I.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/nMZcXxv.png[/img] [img]http://i.imgur.com/Ub0ek0T.png[/img] (source: [url]https://wigle.net/[/url]) "cor blimey govna u take the way up tha thames ill stop for a spot of fish n chips mate" "nah mate we got a schedule to keep besoides i still aven't finished me monsta munch supply yet ave i govna?" "oi you limey bastard we've only been searching high and low for the past 10 monfs and we still haven't tracked down this chap with his laza intanet we betta get on it jolly on the spot like a bunch of bobbies" you could pretty much write and fund a blockbuster movie about 2 "chaps" trying and failing to find errant wifi/internet users inbetween stuffing their faces with curry monster munch "crisps" and make more money than you ever would actually funding two "chaps" trying and failing to find errant wifi/internet users inbetween stuffing their faces with curry monster munch "crisps" govna.
[QUOTE=Map in a box;50848124]That doesn't explain anything. I don't see any reliability in this method unless they have metrics from all routers, all browsers, all OSes, all streaming services, all TLS implementations, etc.[/QUOTE] They are searching for common patterns in the size and timing of network packets. They aren't concerned of the contents of those packets at all (or atleast in the initial phase). In Simple terms, they introduce trackable patterns into the BBC iPlayer streams, by artificially making certain network packets bigger and some having artificial latency to create a pattern they can track. Encryption will still inhibit that pattern to an extent. If they detect these patterns in a household that is not paying for a TV License, they can start an investigation. I don't think it's worth doing it, but from a technical perspective, it works. Actually proving that the WIFI belongs to the household without a court order is another thing.
BBC is probably working with GCHQ on this.
I wish we had protection from search without a warrant like the US ostensibly does. Private companies issuing parking tickets and sending fine notices to people based on private surveillance is some creepy shit.
[QUOTE=kaukassus;50848146]They are searching for common patterns in the size and timing of network packets. They aren't concerned of the contents of those packets at all (or atleast in the initial phase). In Simple terms, they introduce trackable patterns into the BBC iPlayer streams, by artificially making certain network packets bigger and some having artificial latency to create a pattern they can track. Encryption will still inhibit that pattern to an extent. If they detect these patterns in a household that is not paying for a TV License, they can start an investigation. I don't think it's worth doing it, but from a technical perspective, it works. Actually proving that the WIFI belongs to the household without a court order is another thing.[/QUOTE] The headers they're talking about are frame size, which has a limit, and the other metrics used, will vary based on transport method. So yes, content does matter.
I mean if it'd probably have been cheaper to implement a system where you have to tie your licence number to an account. But nah, BBC would rather intimidate people into paying. Also piss easy way of getting around it? use ethernet cables.....
Check this article out, essentially states it really is a load of rubbish what they've proposed they're doing [URL]http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/06/bbc_detector_van_wi_fi_iplayer/[/URL]
Jokes on you! I'm not on Wi-Fi, I'm using cable.
Invasion of privacy anyone?
You'll need a wifi licence along with an internet licence and an Ethernet licence if you want to watch iplayer
lol bbc
Nothing beats how funny it is reading supposed left-wingers crying about the BBC trying to prevent what is essentially tax evasion. Despite this they will explode if the 'evil Tories' did anything to it and profess to like public services, the BBC and redistribution. Issues like this separate those who are genuine in their ideals and those who are just self-interested. Thanks for the thread.
[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;50848411]Nothing beats how funny it is reading supposed left-wingers crying about the BBC trying to prevent what is essentially tax evasion. Despite this they will explode if the 'evil Tories' did anything to it and profess to like public services, the BBC and redistribution. Issues like this separate those who are genuine in their ideals and those who are just self-interested. Thanks for the thread.[/QUOTE] There you go throwing around the leftie insult again, dont you get bored of it?
Not an insult. It is a description of someone left of centre.
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