• 'Other-ness': What Obama and Romney have in common on religion, race
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[QUOTE]Washington (CNN) -- The uproar last week over a proposed campaign ad highlighting President Barack Obama's former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, lit up political circles before organizers finally backed off the idea. And Mitt Romney came under fire from evangelicals before his speech to Liberty University in Virginia earlier this month because some at the traditional Christian school still believe Mormonism is a cult. Two very different candidates joined by similar, yet hollow, attacks on their faith illustrate the intense mix of identity politics simmering just beneath the surface of the presidential race. When it comes to faith and race, there are some who want to paint both candidates as outside the mainstream, not members of the traditional American club. They want to paint them as "others." Both Obama, the nation's first black president, and Romney, a Mormon, have found that their shared status as members of minority groups and political pioneers, in many ways, has also changed the rules of this presidential campaign cycle, said Nancy Wadsworth, co-editor of the anthology "Faith and Race in American Political Life." "It's the elephant in the room," Wadsworth said. "On the Democratic side, the liability of raising (Romney's) Mormonism and putting it under closer scrutiny means they will be accused of religious intolerance. If (Republicans) bring up Jeremiah Wright, they'll be accused of using the race card." So both presidential campaigns are adhering to a tenuous, unwritten hands-off agreement when it comes to race and religion even as they themselves struggle to navigate those waters. But the same rules may not neccesarily apply to their supporters, third-party groups and well-heeled super PACs. Romney condemned the Wright ad proposal pitched to billionaire Joe Ricketts and his conservative super PAC. Likewise, senior Obama campaign adviser David Axelrod reiterated to Candy Crowley on CNN's "State of the Union" Sunday that critiques of Romney's Mormonism are "not fair game." The success or failure of the two campaigns' attempts to remove these topics from the table could speak volumes this fall on how far the nation has come on divisive race and religion-based debates in the political sphere, political experts say. It won't be easy. Outside groups, such as the conservative website "The Daily Caller," have criticized Obama for eating dog meat as a child growing up in Indonesia. Republican Arizona Secretary of State Ken Bennett is demanding Hawaiian officials authenticate Obama's U.S. birth certificate, or he may remove the president from the ballot. Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer, a Democrat, recently questioned whether female voters could back Romney, because his father was "born on a polygamy commune in Mexico." According to a recent Gallup poll, Democrats were far more likely than Republicans -- 27% to 18% -- to vote against a Mormon candidate. Some Democrats struggle to contend with Obama's race. Vice President Joe Biden was recently dispatched to Democratic stronghold Jefferson County in the important swing state of Ohio, in part because Obama barely eked out a win over John McCain in the predominately white, working-class community. Some Republicans wrestle with Romney's religion. During the primary and caucus season, several social conservative and religious leaders secretly met in Iowa to find and support any other Republican candidate besides Romney, citing his faith as a major issue. "There will be a number of Republican evangelicals who stay home because of Romney's Mormonism," said Clyde Wilcox, a government professor at Georgetown University. Hundreds of evangelical alumni and students at Liberty University, an institution founded by Rev. Jerry Falwell, balked on Facebook when the school invited Romney to speak at commencement. Rev. O'Neal Dozier in Florida and Scott Thomas in Pennsylvania, prominent Rick Santorum supporters, made derogatory comments about the Mormon faith. The claim is that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim, Wadsworth said. The reason that it works is it signals through code his otherness, he said. "Race is always there." "Obama can never get out from under his racial difference. He has to position himself as not 'other'. Race serves Romney because his whiteness reads him as insider. But on religion, he has to tell a story about how his Mormonism is an American religion and coincides with his conservative base." On both fronts, Obama and Romney are still trying to find their footing. Obama has faltered a bit in the past while navigating the thorny issue of race. He made what was seen as a historic speech on race in March 2008 in the aftermath of the Wright controversy. However, Obama's remarks in 2009 that a white Cambridge, Massachusetts, police officer acted "stupidly" in arresting Henry Louis Gates Jr., a black Harvard professor, and his administration's hasty firing of Shirley Sherrod in, a black former Department of Agriculture official, after her comments about a white farmer were taken out of context in 2010, were seen as missteps. Obama's delayed response after unarmed black teen Trayvon Martin was shot indicated the president and his advisers were "gauging the cultural landscape," said Mark Anthony Neal, an African-American studies professor at Duke University and the author of several books, including "New Black Man: Rethinking Black Masculinity." For his part, Romney in previous campaigns has weathered insults about his religion. In a February interview with conservative Fox host Sean Hannity, Romney criticized comments that he saw as Obama saying "we must be a less Christian nation." And Romney, through appearances with his wife and family, is carefully honing a narrative that seeks to make him seem more like the rest of the nation, Wadsworth said. "The fact that the leading GOP candidate is a Mormon has changed the dialogue," Wadsworth said.[/QUOTE] Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/22/politics/obama-romney-race-religion-other/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5[/url] Voting against Romney because he's a Mormon is just as bad as voting against Obama because he's black - in both you are defining someone not by their individual words and actions, essentially who they are, but by a group you identify them with.
LDS is a dangerous cult.
[quote]defining someone not by their individual words and actions, essentially who they are, but by a group you identify them with.[/quote] except romney gives a ton of money to the mormon church (which is a tax write off) so they can send other mormons to other countries to spread mormonism im not saying you should vote against him because he is mormon but being mormon does kind of tie in to his actions (not that giving money to the LDS is necessarily a negative action but some people might see it that way) also he wears magic undies
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;36061091]except romney gives a ton of money to the mormon church (which is a tax write off) so they can send other mormons to other countries to spread mormonism im not saying you should vote against him because he is mormon but being mormon does kind of tie in to his actions (not that giving money to the LDS is necessarily a negative action but some people might see it that way) also he wears magic undies[/QUOTE] And tell me, how is that different from any other man who gives money to his church/temple/mosque/synagogue?
I still can't believe people think Obama is secretly a muslim
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;36061193]I still can't believe people think Obama is secretly a muslim[/QUOTE] Surely if he wasn't a Muslim, he wouldn't have a Muslim middle name! :downs:
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36061202]Surely if he wasn't a Muslim, he wouldn't have a Muslim middle name! :downs:[/QUOTE] Totally, I mean Osama Bin Laden? More like OBAMA Bin Laden HARHARHARHARHAR
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36061058]Voting against Romney because he's a Mormon is just as bad as voting against Obama because he's black - in both you are defining someone not by their individual words and actions, essentially who they are, but by a group you identify them with.[/QUOTE] Religion is definitely not a choice
Why do people always talk about Mormonism like it's some type of deadly disease? Sure, it's a little strange, but who really cares? I certainly don't.
Seriously, I was raised in the Mormon church, we aren't that bad, even if I'm not actually Mormon anymore, they aren't bad people in fact they are incredibly friendly, and if it wasn't for the church my family would of starved a few years ago. Most Mormons I know though would still vote for Obama. For once I agree with Boba_Fett.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;36061345]Religion is definitely not a choice[/QUOTE] Can't tell if sarcastic or not. But your statement is actually true.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36061496]Can't tell if sarcastic or not. But your statement is actually true.[/QUOTE] Religion is a choice, that's why people can change it. Technically you can change skin colour however you are still genetically that colour. So if you believe in something stupid you should be held accountable for it, you are part of it, you are supporting it.
[QUOTE=thrawn2787;36061091]except romney gives a ton of money to the mormon church (which is a tax write off) so they can send other mormons to other countries to spread mormonism im not saying you should vote against him because he is mormon but being mormon does kind of tie in to his actions (not that giving money to the LDS is necessarily a negative action but some people might see it that way) also he wears magic undies[/QUOTE] Let's not forget the millions LDS have given to anti-gay marriage stuff Prop 8 was funded by LDS, not even from CA! [editline]22nd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;36061366]Why do people always talk about Mormonism like it's some type of deadly disease? Sure, it's a little strange, but who really cares? I certainly don't.[/QUOTE] LDS is an organization, unlike Protestantism which is not all connected and just separate privately own churches
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36061496]Can't tell if sarcastic or not. But your statement is actually true.[/QUOTE] lol
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;36061058]Source: [url]http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/22/politics/obama-romney-race-religion-other/index.html?hpt=hp_bn5[/url] Voting against Romney because he's a Mormon is just as bad as voting against Obama because he's black - in both you are defining someone not by their individual words and actions, essentially who they are, but by a group you identify them with.[/QUOTE] 1. People sure as hell can help what religion they subscribe to. 2. Do you know what the hell Mormonism is and just why it's pronunciation is so close to Moron? It's INSANE!
[QUOTE=The Baconator;36061634] LDS is an organization, unlike Protestantism which is not all connected and just separate privately own churches[/QUOTE] Still an established religious belief.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;36061366]Why do people always talk about Mormonism like it's some type of deadly disease? Sure, it's a little strange, but who really cares? I certainly don't.[/QUOTE] Religion is usually a slight mental disorder, since it rides on gullibility, which should have been reasonably reduced during a childs socialization and education. Mormonism is just fucking insane. Check up on its origin. There's NOTHING believable about it in the slightest.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;36061765]Religion is usually a slight mental disorder, since it rides on gullibility, which should have been reasonably reduced during a childs socialization and education. Mormonism is just fucking insane. Check up on its origin. There's NOTHING believable about it in the slightest.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure there are many, many adults who became religious after childhood.
[QUOTE=Bomimo;36061765]Religion is usually a slight mental disorder, since it rides on gullibility, which should have been reasonably reduced during a childs socialization and education. Mormonism is just fucking insane. Check up on its origin. There's NOTHING believable about it in the slightest.[/QUOTE] Millions of intelligent people have believed and do believe in religion, it's a personal belief choice, not a "mental disorder."
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;36061738]lol[/QUOTE] Most people inherit their religion from their parents, and the only reason why those super religious kids in your class sigh and roll their eyes when someone makes fun of religion is because they are defending something that has been ingrained into their identity by their parents and family.
[QUOTE=Chevron;36061617]Religion is a choice, that's why people can change it. Technically you can change skin colour however you are still genetically that colour. So if you believe in something stupid you should be held accountable for it, you are part of it, you are supporting it.[/QUOTE] Well, up to a certain point. Most people are brainwashed into accepting their religion from birth. To say it is a choice is to say that you live in a certain country by choice. Sure, you can change that, but it's not easy or wanted.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36061861]Well, up to a certain point. Most people are brainwashed into accepting their religion from birth. To say it is a choice is to say that you live in a certain country by choice. Sure, you can change that, but it's not easy or wanted.[/QUOTE] Changing your religion is a hell of a lot easier than changing your country.
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36061861]Well, up to a certain point. Most people are brainwashed into accepting their religion from birth. To say it is a choice is to say that you live in a certain country by choice. Sure, you can change that, but it's not easy or wanted.[/QUOTE] the degree to which it is a choice varies from person to person and their life story and such. a religion spreads like a gene passed onto children really
[QUOTE=The Baconator;36061828]Most people inherit their religion from their parents, and the only reason why those super religious kids in your class sigh and roll their eyes when someone makes fun of religion is because they are defending something that has been ingrained into their identity by their parents and family.[/QUOTE] Still does not make it any less of a choice. If I fell my child the the sky is orange not blue, does that mean because it is "ingrained into their identity" they have the right to keep defending it even though it is stupid and can be shown to be wrong? This argument is the illusion of no choice, just because it is "ingrained into their identity" does not make it, not a choice just because they do not see it. It is not everyone else's responsibly to accept peoples choices or beliefs.
[QUOTE=Chevron;36061900]Still does not make it any less of a choice. If I fell my child the the sky is orange not blue, does that mean because it is "ingrained into their identity" they have the right to keep defending it even though it is stupid and can be shown to be wrong? This argument is the illusion of no choice, just because it is "ingrained into their identity" does not make it, not a choice just because they do not see it. It is not everyone else's responsibly to accept peoples choices or beliefs.[/QUOTE] the likelihood of someone rejecting the religion given to their parents is slim it's the details I am concerned about, it's the end result
[QUOTE=King Tiger;36061861]Well, up to a certain point. Most people are brainwashed into accepting their religion from birth. To say it is a choice is to say that you live in a certain country by choice. Sure, you can change that, but it's not easy or wanted.[/QUOTE] Difficulties nor wanting have anything to do with if it is a choice? And I am not arguing that people are brainwashed, I am arguing that we cannot criticizing people beliefs and that they are on par with insulting someone for something they where born with.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;36061870]the degree to which it is a choice varies from person to person and their life story and such. a religion spreads like a gene passed onto children really[/QUOTE] If that were so, then the concept of atheism never would have begun.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;36061917]the likelihood of someone rejecting the religion given to their parents is slim it's the details I am concerned about, it's the end result[/QUOTE] So believing in Santa is not a choice, sure ignorance comes into play, however you do not need a reason not to believe in something nor to believe in something. My main grief here is that saying insulting religion is on par with insulting someone who is gay or black. [editline]23rd May 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=The Baconator;36061870]the degree to which it is a choice varies from person to person and their life story and such. a religion spreads like a gene passed onto children really[/QUOTE] A gene that can be changed at whim ? [editline]23rd May 2012[/editline] I would say it is more like handy-downs/heirlooms. You keep it if you want to, it can have a special place for you, however you can always get rid of it, even if you wouldn't ever do it.
I said like not that it is a gene my point is most people will not leave their parents' religion
[QUOTE=The Baconator;36062031]I said like not that it is a gene my point is most people will not leave their parents' religion[/QUOTE] No most people do, however they do not realise that they do. They take a different interpretation, pick and choose, literal or not, angles no angles, heaven and hell. Lot's of people change what their parents religion was, they just do not realise it.
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