MH17 was forced to lower its altitude - Malaysia Airlines - Polidicks

[quote]"MH17 filed a flight plan requesting to fly at 35,000 feet throughout Ukrainian airspace. This is close to the 'optimum' altitude," the airline said. "However, an aircraft's altitude in flight is determined by air traffic control on the ground. Upon entering Ukrainian airspace, MH17 was instructed by Ukrainian air traffic control to fly at 33,000 feet."[/quote] [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/18/us-ukraine-crisis-flightplan-idUSKBN0FN1HR20140718]Source[/url] [url=http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/mh17.html]Can be seen on their official website[/url] Make of that what you will, but still, what could make dispatch ask to lower the altitude?

I don't think 2000 feet would have done much.

It still was within the rules outlined in the no fly zone.

It doesn't really matter if the missile has to fly for 0.4 seconds more or not.

If anything the extra height would have only made the debris field bigger.

[QUOTE=Pepsi-cola;45449687]If anything the extra height would have only made the debris field bigger.[/QUOTE] Aha! So they were just all doing us a favor.

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;45449723]Aha! So they were just all doing us a favor.[/QUOTE] Yeah, because they knew it was gonna happen.

[QUOTE=Saxon;45449659]It still was within the rules outlined in the no fly zone.[/QUOTE] There was no "No fly zone"

[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45449738]There was no "No fly zone"[/QUOTE] I am pretty sure the rebels declared one quite a while back.

Ukrainians have recovered the black box, so hopefully it's going to the right authorities. [img]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02980/plane-1_2980909b.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10979189/Separatist-rebels-believe-they-have-recovered-black-box-recorders-from-MH17-wreckage.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45449738]There was no "No fly zone"[/QUOTE] Yes there was, after a cargo plane was shot down. Ukraine banned all civilian flights from flying below 32,000 feet on July 1st. [URL]http://online.wsj.com/articles/height-of-ukraine-no-fly-zone-faces-scrutiny-1405639624[/URL]

[QUOTE=Friendly;45449782]Ukrainians have recovered the black box, so hopefully it's going to the right authorities. [img]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02980/plane-1_2980909b.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10979189/Separatist-rebels-believe-they-have-recovered-black-box-recorders-from-MH17-wreckage.html[/url][/QUOTE] but that says the pro-russian separatists still have it and they're still shipping it to Moscow to prevent others from getting it?

[QUOTE=dai;45449806]but that says the pro-russian separatists still have it and they're still shipping it to Moscow to prevent others from getting it?[/QUOTE] It does say that, but those are Ukrainian Emergency Ministry uniforms. The article is either wrong or the picture is unrelated.

What does this suggest?

[QUOTE=Itsjustguy;45449738]There was no "No fly zone"[/QUOTE] below 32,000 feet was a no-fly zone

As far as I know this is a pretty normal thing for ATC to do, and I doubt it would have made a difference anyway. I'm not sure what kind of reason they would have for putting them 3000 feet lower than requested, but if I had to guess I would guess maybe weather conditions or something.

[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45449879]What does this suggest?[/QUOTE] Nothing much really? I mean, if you're trying to imply that Ukrainian air control brought them down purposefully to be shot at, you're fucking delusional. It was still outside of the no-fly.

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45449972]Nothing much really? I mean, if you're trying to imply that Ukrainian air control brought them down purposefully to be shot at, you're fucking delusional. It was still outside of the no-fly.[/QUOTE] Which begs the question: if it was known beforehand that the missiles the rebels had were able to destroy an aircraft at that altitude, why not raise the altitude of the no-fly zone? Or ban all civilian flights in that area at any altitude?

[QUOTE=Friendly;45449782]Ukrainians have recovered the black box, so hopefully it's going to the right authorities. [img]http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02980/plane-1_2980909b.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10979189/Separatist-rebels-believe-they-have-recovered-black-box-recorders-from-MH17-wreckage.html[/url][/QUOTE] Uhh, that's clearly a [I]red [/I]box dude.

[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45450061]Which begs the question: if it was known beforehand that the missiles the rebels had were able to destroy an aircraft at that altitude, why not raise the altitude of the no-fly zone? Or ban all civilian flights in that area at any altitude?[/QUOTE] SAM platforms can hit at quite some range, extending the no-fly has logistical limitations. There's no fucking conspiracy here, dozens of flights must have passed over that no-fly before this one was shot down, why did they not pick any of those? Re-routing planes around the area also has logistical limitations, fuel and travel time are big concerns to the people not actually involved in the conflict, if they are at an altitude deemed safe why should they be punished? The rebels fucked up by firing near-blind at aircraft if the information we have on their SAM platform is remotely accurate.

[QUOTE=Rents;45450092]Uhh, that's clearly a [I]red [/I]box dude.[/QUOTE] Shit dude, seriously?

[QUOTE=Dark RaveN;45449631] Make of that what you will, but still, what could make dispatch ask to lower the altitude?[/QUOTE] Avoiding a collision with other planes flying in the area?

[QUOTE=hexpunK;45450102]SAM platforms can hit at quite some range, extending the no-fly has logistical limitations. There's no fucking conspiracy here, dozens of flights must have passed over that no-fly before this one was shot down, why did they not pick any of those? Re-routing planes around the area also has logistical limitations, fuel and travel time are big concerns to the people not actually involved in the conflict, if they are at an altitude deemed safe why should they be punished? The rebels fucked up by firing near-blind at aircraft if the information we have on their SAM platform is remotely accurate.[/QUOTE] It would be interesting to see if other planes heading over that area were also asked to make similar adjustments, if they were that only makes the whole thing even more suggestive. In either case, the area has now become a total no-fly zone, if they could do it now what was to stop them doing it before?

[QUOTE=WhollyRufus;45450196]It would be interesting to see if other planes heading over that area were also asked to make similar adjustments, if they were that only makes the whole thing even more suggestive. In either case, the area has now become a total no-fly zone, if they could do it now what was to stop them doing it before?[/QUOTE] Hindsight is a bitch huh? Nobody could have foreseen the rebels actually taking a shot at civilian aircraft because almost any modern SAM platform can identify the aircraft it targets enough to tell the operator if they're shooting at military gear or not. Now we know the rebels are more than happy to fire SAM at targets they didn't even identify, or chose to ignore the identification of, we won't fly over there.

[QUOTE=Rents;45450092]Uhh, that's clearly a [I]red [/I]box dude.[/QUOTE] You're an idiot, redboxes aren't that small. [t]http://beyondtheboxoffice.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/RedboxExteriorGroceryPhoto.jpg[/t] It's even bigger than this American whale

The Buk missile launcher that was used can shoot them down up to 70000+ feet, the 2000 feet lowering would not change anything about the missile hitting.

[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;45449777]I am pretty sure the rebels declared one quite a while back.[/QUOTE] Terrorists don't get to determine who gets to fly above Ukraine, and who doesn't.

[QUOTE=nikomo;45452581]Terrorists don't get to determine who gets to fly above Ukraine, and who doesn't.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure anyone with the capability to strike airplanes off the sky can determine what ever the fuck they want in their radius when it comes to airspace.

[QUOTE=nikomo;45452581]Terrorists don't get to determine who gets to fly above Ukraine, and who doesn't.[/QUOTE] I really wouldn't call them terrorists... I'd call them more like Idiot Rebels.

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;45452596]Pretty sure anyone with the capability to strike airplanes off the sky can determine what ever the fuck they want in their radius when it comes to airspace.[/QUOTE] They can say whatever the fuck they want but that doesn't make it official.