Eh, I feel like he's being a bit harsh. Everything he was showing was early in the game when you're pretty starved of resources. I'm currently at the end game, and I'm drowning in food and water. The main thing that bothered me with MGS V was that all of the fun ways to play had bad consequences. "Oh you like killing people? Guess what? Now you're covered in blood forever and can never wash it off. Shame on you!" Basically forcing you to play non-lethally. Survive lets you use all that lethal weaponry with no consequences, so I can just blast baddies with a shotgun to my heart's content.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157319]Eh, I feel like he's being a bit harsh. Everything he was showing was early in the game when you're pretty starved of resources. I'm currently at the end game, and I'm drowning in food and water. The main thing that bothered me with MGS V was that all of the fun ways to play had bad consequences. "Oh you like killing people? Guess what? Now you're covered in blood forever and can never wash it off. Shame on you!" Basically forcing you to play non-lethally. Survive lets you use all that lethal weaponry with no consequences.[/QUOTE]
It takes some absolute next level dickassery to get the permanent blood in MGS V. I'm not aware of anyone who's managed to get it without actively trying, which included never fultoning anyone (even high rank soldiers) and going out of your way to blow up everyone while building nukes upon nukes upon nukes.
It's also just a visual change, it's not like dishonored where you get fucked out of certain endings.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53157324]It takes some absolute next level dickassery to get the permanent blood in MGS V. I'm not aware of anyone who's managed to get it without actively trying, which included never fultoning anyone (even high rank soldiers) and going out of your way to blow up everyone while building nukes upon nukes upon nukes.[/QUOTE]
I only killed people that were low rank, and I built one nuke but promptly got rid of it just for the achievement. I'm still covered in blood.
Building a nuke is probably the reason why considering it absolutely fucking dips your karma, and you can easily restore it by continuously playing the game without being a massive dick.
It's a series with a strong anti-war message. Removing the minor incentive to play non-lethal is kind of abandoning an important facet of the game which has been present since 2.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53157324]It takes some absolute next level dickassery to get the permanent blood in MGS V. I'm not aware of anyone who's managed to get it without actively trying, which included never fultoning anyone (even high rank soldiers) and going out of your way to blow up everyone while building nukes upon nukes upon nukes.[/QUOTE]
I did twice.
First was on PS4 after killing a ton of solders (This was at the point where the AI had learned to report to control if waking up after being tranquilized or finding a tranq'd body) Took me ages to get rid of it.
Second was on PC after building a single nuke. NEVER went away until the false disarmament thing reset everybodys demon points.
Kills by flame give twice the demon point amount. Stuff like failing fulton extractions cause bad weather or killing animals give demon points.
[url]http://metalgear.wikia.com/wiki/Demon_Points[/url]
His comparisons at the beginning were a bit weak since Metal Gear Rising departs from the main line games as well.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157319]Eh, I feel like he's being a bit harsh. Everything he was showing was early in the game when you're pretty starved of resources. I'm currently at the end game, and I'm drowning in food and water. The main thing that bothered me with MGS V was that all of the fun ways to play had bad consequences. "Oh you like killing people? Guess what? Now you're covered in blood forever and can never wash it off. Shame on you!" Basically forcing you to play non-lethally. Survive lets you use all that lethal weaponry with no consequences, so I can just blast baddies with a shotgun to my heart's content.[/QUOTE]
Are you for real?
Every Metal Gear since MGS1 has given you shit for killing people, and every game since MGS2 barring Rising has given you a lot of incentives not to kill people.
[editline]broke[/editline]
Remember Liquids "you enjoy all the killing" spiel, or Jacks flashbacks to gutting people like a fish and freaking out over it, or the Sorrows river, or MGS4's Liquid flashback + Big Mama's war game speech, and Rising's fear fight where you hear all the thoughts of the people you're killing and they're terrified of you?
i'm just happy to see the fox engine used for a game that isn't soccer and survive's p decent
:snip:
[QUOTE=redBadger;53157340]His comparisons at the beginning were a bit weak since Metal Gear Rising departs from the main line games as well.[/QUOTE]
Yes, but it departs in an inspired way. Instead of "zombies lmao" Rising says, "Okay, what if we made playing Raiden feel like he looked in the cutscenes of MGS4" and they actually pulled that off somehow.
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;53157335]Building a nuke is probably the reason why considering it absolutely fucking dips your karma, and you can easily restore it by continuously playing the game without being a massive dick.
It's a series with a strong anti-war message. Removing the minor incentive to play non-lethal is kind of abandoning an important facet of the game which has been present since 2.[/QUOTE]
I played a good bit after disarming the nuke, and briefly got rid of the blood, but it eventually came back. I'm permanently stuck on the line between demon and hero unless I grind "good deeds". Fuck that.
[editline]24th February 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157342]Are you for real?
Every Metal Gear since MGS1 has given you shit for killing people, and every game since MGS2 barring Rising has given you a lot of incentives not to kill people.
[editline]broke[/editline]
Remember Liquids "you enjoy all the killing" spiel, or Jacks flashbacks to gutting people like a fish and freaking out over it, or the Sorrows river, or MGS4's Liquid flashback + Big Mama's war game speech, and Rising's fear fight where you hear all the thoughts of the people you're killing and they're terrified of you?[/QUOTE]
I played every MGS game lethally, and never felt the consequences for it until MGS V dumped blood on me.
[QUOTE=redBadger;53157340]His comparisons at the beginning were a bit weak since Metal Gear Rising departs from the main line games as well.[/QUOTE]
Why do people keep equating an escalation of the tech in MGS4 to alternate dimension super zombie magic with wormholes.
Like the most fantastical stuff beforehand was a ghost, a guy who could throw around office furniture, a gay pseudo-vampire, and some rock throwing grey goons.
thought i was watching a crowbcat video there for a moment
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157351]
I played every MGS game lethally, and never felt the consequences for it until MGS V dumped blood on me.[/QUOTE]
If you go around killing people in 4 Snake will outright vomit all over the ground.
Even Dunkey didn't like it.
Like whats the problem with it?
The point is to give you a visual indicator that you're being a bad guy.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157369]Like whats the problem with it?
The point is to give you a visual indicator that you're being a bad guy.[/QUOTE]
It looks bad. All of my cool outfits are ruined with blood. Like, make it so you can just toggle that shit on and off.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157372]It looks bad. All of my cool outfits are ruined with blood. Like, make it so you can just toggle that shit on and off.[/QUOTE]
Then dont go around gunning down people left and right and building nukes every day.
I killed plenty of people in my MGSV run and the horn never grew for me.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157369]Like whats the problem with it?
The point is to give you a visual indicator that you're being a bad guy.[/QUOTE]
It's not like the Demon Snake appearance actually negatively impacts you all that much, anyway. It's basically just symbolic.
Also, just like Snakes vomit, the Sorrows rivers length and difficulty depends entirely on how bloodthirsty you've been over the whole game.
They've always criticized the player for going on killing sprees. MGS2 i believe even upped the difficulty of assault teams if you killed enough guys.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157366]If you go around killing people in 4 Snake will outright vomit all over the ground.[/QUOTE]
MGS 3 hammers you over the head in a segment that you shouldn't have killed people by making you face the ghosts of every single person you've killed, which makes the segment a whole lot harder to get through. [sp]And on a first run you're not supposed to know you die at that part regardless.[/sp]
MGS 4 also has the whole faction system early on which punishes you for being trigger happy since haphazardly opening fire on the wrong people can get you in trouble fairly quickly.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157372]It looks bad. All of my cool outfits are ruined with blood. Like, make it so you can just toggle that shit on and off.[/QUOTE]
If you care so much about something as menial as this but don't feel like playing along with the point the game wants to make you can always [url=https://www.nexusmods.com/metalgearsolidvtpp/mods/90]mod it out.[/url]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;53157373]mgs5 makes it way too rewarding to play nonlethally
theres no reason not to use a silenced tranq and d-dog to just fulton entire bases and doing anything otherwise is wasting valuable resources and people
dunno what a solution would be but whats the point of even having lethal options if the nonlethal is better in nearly every way[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/AZComics/comic527.png[/IMG]
[I]"They always start you off with a silenced tranquilizer gun and then, over the course of the game, give you a bunch of cool toys that are nowhere near as fun or efficient as the silenced tranquilizer gun."[/I]
Metal Gear has had this problem since 2 and never fixed it.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157369]Like whats the problem with it?
The point is to give you a visual indicator that you're being a bad guy.[/QUOTE]
I just think it's a little too much. If they only kept the horn growth it would have been fine.
[IMG]https://files.spieletipps.de/f4/31/21/f43121_55f7e93e7a63e_ciA2NDIDZjFfZjk3Mw==.png[/IMG]
I liked how it was subtle stuff in other games. Dialogue being changed, i.e. "I'm sorry Zero. I had to kill them." "The soldiers are using flamethrowers because they fucking hate you."
The Sorrow's river, "YOU ENJOY ALL THE KILLING! THAT'S WHY!" etc.
Being covered in strawberry jam that can't be washed off like normal bloodstains due to injuries via shower is just lame.
[video=youtube;r3oXYEhygok]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3oXYEhygok[/video]
It doesn't help when you're given enemies who are just fun to fuck around with. I remember every MGS2 playthrough, I ALWAYS rush to the engine room so I can knock that soldier off the railing, so he falls and breaks his neck landing ontop of another guard. Or holding a guy human shield and throwing him into the electric fence, etc.
[QUOTE=AaronM202;53157382]Also, just like Snakes vomit, the Sorrows rivers length and difficulty depends entirely on how bloodthirsty you've been over the whole game.
They've always criticized the player for going on killing sprees. MGS2 i believe even upped the difficulty of assault teams if you killed enough guys.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, those were subtle and clever. Permanently changing your appearance isn't. I'd be okay with it if only the horn grew.
no surprise dunkey doesn't like survive, considering how big of a kojima fan he is and his support of #fuckkonami.
also weird to see him compare main numbered titles with a spinoff, not to mention the footage of the first 30 minutes of survive being compared to however many hours into mgsv the footage he showed was considering he showed the rocket punch.
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157389]Yeah, those were subtle[...][/QUOTE]
The Sorrow-river was anything [I]but[/I] subtle. The game took the corpses of everything and everyone you killed and shoved it into your face, one by one, draining your health if you dared touch them and/or staggering your progress - meanwhile the Sorrow yammers on endlessly about how terrible you are and force ghosts endlessly charging out from the brush telling you about their families and kids and their pain and that you've made them suffer and die.
[QUOTE=AtomicSans;53157384]Metal Gear has had this problem since 2 and never fixed it.[/QUOTE]
I find that hard to believe considering how much people still praise 3, 4 and 5 to this day on how much fun shit there is to do that still does not involve outright killing people.
They all have a massive panoply of non-lethal gadgets which are funny, inventive and really common, on top of CQC which is one of the most fun things to have ever been brought into a video game ever.
Seriously, there's so many videos of people just fucking around with gadgets in all of these games.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le23bsVURds[/media]
Also MGS V lowkey punishes you for being predictable anyway, even for non-lethal behavior, since enemies adapt fairly well to your tactics and start using extra equipment to counter or imitate you.
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;53157390]no surprise dunkey doesn't like survive, considering how big of a kojima fan he is and his support of #fuckkonami.
also weird to see him compare main numbered titles with a spinoff, not to mention the footage of the first 30 minutes of survive being compared to however many hours into mgsv the footage he showed was considering he showed the rocket punch.[/QUOTE]
Survive is a lot closer to a main-line title than Rising is, since it's more or less an expansion pack for MGSV, using the same engine and mechanics.
[QUOTE=Toybasher;53157388]I just think it's a little too much. If they only kept the horn growth it would have been fine.
[IMG]https://files.spieletipps.de/f4/31/21/f43121_55f7e93e7a63e_ciA2NDIDZjFfZjk3Mw==.png[/IMG]
I liked how it was subtle stuff in other games. Dialogue being changed, i.e. "I'm sorry Zero. I had to kill them." "The soldiers are using flamethrowers because they fucking hate you."
The Sorrow's river, "YOU ENJOY ALL THE KILLING! THAT'S WHY!" etc.
Being covered in strawberry jam that can't be washed off like normal bloodstains due to injuries via shower is just lame.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MightyLOLZOR;53157389]Yeah, those were subtle and clever. Permanently changing your appearance isn't. I'd be okay with it if only the horn grew.[/QUOTE]
You have to do a metric ton of awful shit to actually get to that point though.
Its like the meat camo from MGS4 for dying a ludicrous amount of times, you need to actually try to get it.
[editline]24th February 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=BeardyDuck;53157390]no surprise dunkey doesn't like survive, considering how big of a kojima fan he is and his support of #fuckkonami.[/QUOTE]
It could be that he just doesnt like the game in addition to acknowledging Konamis putrid behavior.
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