These longform video essays are some of the best stuff to come out of youtube recently.
[QUOTE=patq911;52545816]These longform video essays are some of the best stuff to come out of youtube recently.[/QUOTE]
I just wish they were titled better. Granted it may be my cynical eye here but I cant help but read some level of "your opinions are wrong and what you think is true is a lie" in most youtube titles. And that just rubs me the wrong way.
Don't agree on a lot his criticisms for New Vegas but otherwise p. good
the memes have reconfigured my brain - seeing "Todd Howard" at the end of a quote in this context made me instantly think not of a game developer but an insatiable destroyer of worlds, the arch-corrupter and merciless exploiter of everything that is pure and good
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;52545939]Bethesda acquiring the rights to Fallout was pretty much the death sentence of the series. Bethesda Fallout games can be alright, but they have nothing to do with the first two games outside of all the iconic and recognizable Beth scooped up from them.
All I really hope for is for somebody to make a proper RPG with the same atmosphere and depth FO1 and 2 had[/QUOTE]
I don't know about that. I think the series was already dead. Bethesda just gave a chance for the name to live on regardless of whether or not you liked the games.
Honestly I'm just happy Fallout got the proper 3d entry the series deserved in New Vegas. It felt like a nice standalone epilogue to the fallout franchise, and the fact it was made by the remnants of black isle is almost too good to be true. I've kinda just accepted that further sequels are just going to be disconnected cash cows using the branding.
[QUOTE=DiscoInferno;52545861]I just wish they were titled better. Granted it may be my cynical eye here but I cant help but read some level of "your opinions are wrong and what you think is true is a lie" in most youtube titles. And that just rubs me the wrong way.[/QUOTE]
there's always gonna be some measure of clickbait to the titling, it's what drives clicks
sometimes it's good
[t]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mLJ1gyIzg78/maxresdefault.jpg[/t]
Fallout 3 was my starting point, and I really loved it up until i finally got past my mentality of "oh i don't like turn based games so i cant play Fallout 1"
Fallout 1 was an incredible game, its writing is top notch, it feels survivalist, it is forboding and creepy and it sucks me right in.
I go back to the old fallouts more than the new ones because they are like completely different games. If anything STALKER games remind me more of the old fallouts than beth's iterations do.
That isn't to say they are bad games though, beth's fallouts are certainly good games that i can enjoy (though fallout 3/NV's gunplay is something i don't really desire to go back to) but at the same time I honestly think making a franchise inspired by fallout would have been a better path considering it was a CRPG, not exactly the most well known franchise they could've chosen, and bethesda's fallouts wouldn't rub me the wrong way as much, hinting at things reminiscent of the old ones yet always using them for surface details instead of actual substance.
[QUOTE=latin_geek;52546068]there's always gonna be some measure of clickbait to the titling, it's what drives clicks
sometimes it's good
[t]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/mLJ1gyIzg78/maxresdefault.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
[URL="https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=27085"]Look at this…[/URL]
Some good points but a lot of it was "it's not what [b]I[/b] like anymore"
Bethesda made a lot of mistakes (voiced protagonist and closed in stories are my main complaints), but a lot of what he said could probably be argued the other way also.
New Vegas was the closest we'll ever get to the perfect marriage of a 3D reboot and actual Fallout role playing, and that's depressing.
I never really noticed the lack of American themes or presence in the old school games, but it makes sense that it's out of place in the newer games barring New Vegas. New Vegas was like a time capsule, a remnant from a different era still standing in a post-apocalypse wasteland and its ruler a literal ghost that forced the American style and life on the surrounding region.
Then with 3 and 4 we have characters and locations being inspired by American stereotypes when they really shouldn't be because that history and knowledge would be long forgotten.
In one way, they had it right when post-war Commonwealth thought baseball was a kind of gladiator sport where people beat each other to death with wooden clubs, but that's kind of where it ended when you meet quirky detective Piper and the whole "reset for humanity" goes out the window.
I guess we can only hope for another spiritual successor.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52546111]
I never really noticed the lack of American themes or presence in the old school games, but it makes sense that it's out of place in the newer games barring New Vegas. New Vegas was like a time capsule, a remnant from a different era still standing in a post-apocalypse wasteland and its ruler a literal ghost that forced the American style and life on the surrounding region.[/QUOTE]
fallout was much more mad max in the originals
unfortunately they missed the point completely in 3 and 4 by doubling down on ~quirky 50s America~ aesthetic and a lot of the brutal and macabre themes and humor were done away with
[QUOTE=Marbalo;52545925]Nobody would give a shit if they were titled better. This is the law of the internet. Even "intellectual" content, i.e content that has been carefully written and made with an original hook to it, still needs some sort of click-bait-y title because otherwise even people like you or I simply wouldn't give a shit, and it would never reach a wider audience if it wasn't for some random, rare stroke of luck.[/QUOTE]
I refuse to click on such titles at all, actually. Because I'm spiteful. That's why I shitpost all day.
If fallout had maintained a stalker-like atmosphere, it wouldn't be as well known as it is now, which is sort of unfortunate, but at the same time, even after playing all of the games, and enjoyed each one, I don't mind this change for the fallout universe. it allows me to spend far more hours within the actual game, than a game like stalker, despite me loving stalker, i get burnt out of it eventually. if Bethesda wanted to grow the franchise, the change was needed in a way.
there's no way i'd enjoy walking in an endless madmax wasteland as much as modern detroit
and with a lot of the tribal aspects of the game, i can see where bethesda is going with it. by the time FO4 takes place, the NCR was already established, a more modern, government. In the east coast, it's not unlikely that something comparable to some sort of order would have been established(which it has, with the previous minutemen existing for atleast a century before you awaken, and that they had established a government before you awoke(though it was destroyed)) we're simply missing the era in which humans wandered in tribes beth simply lacks the ability to portray that well, but they did make an attempt which able to be understood
About the video, I think these kinds of series analysis should be taken with a grain of salt. Franchises aren't created by forming criteria that defines its entries, and most long lasting series will naturally change itself over time. To say something isn't a legitimate fallout because it deviates from the other fallout games ignores the fact that the series has never super consistent. Back in the crpg days there were people who didn't consider fallout 2 to be a true fallout because it was very reference heavy and broke the fourth wall often. Of course looking back fallout 2 is seen as a classic fallout game despite this.
While I personally consider Bethesda fallout games to be seperate, I think it is a bit silly to try and declare certain games not truely fallout because they differ from the mainline. This is a series that between installments likes to jump 100 years, swaps locations, and establish new factions. It has a history between games but it's kept pretty vague. If Bethesda had the competence to flesh out their games more, Fallout fans would probably be more keen to accept them. At the end of the day all that matters is your enjoyment of the game.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52546111]New Vegas was the closest we'll ever get to the perfect marriage of a 3D reboot and actual Fallout role playing, and that's depressing.
I never really noticed the lack of American themes or presence in the old school games, but it makes sense that it's out of place in the newer games barring New Vegas. New Vegas was like a time capsule, a remnant from a different era still standing in a post-apocalypse wasteland and its ruler a literal ghost that forced the American style and life on the surrounding region.
Then with 3 and 4 we have characters and locations being inspired by American stereotypes when they really shouldn't be because that history and knowledge would be long forgotten.
In one way, they had it right when post-war Commonwealth thought baseball was a kind of gladiator sport where people beat each other to death with wooden clubs, but that's kind of where it ended when you meet quirky detective Piper and the whole "reset for humanity" goes out the window.
I guess we can only hope for another spiritual successor.[/QUOTE]
how would it really be long forgotten when there would still be tons of communities and the like rising up right after the bombs dropped? its not as if people would instantly forget about everything right after it all got nuked. There would still be tons of books, tons of knowledge passed down from older generations.
[QUOTE=Naught;52546170]how would it really be long forgotten when there would still be tons of communities and the like rising up right after the bombs dropped? its not as if people would instantly forget about everything right after it all got nuked. There would still be tons of books, tons of knowledge passed down from older generations.[/QUOTE]
How long would those books really last after the bombs? Knowledge will also become diluted when passed down.
The successful communities were the result of vaults without specific social experiments, Shady Sands and Vault City. San Francisco was built up by remains of a Chinese submarine crew iirc and their supercomputer AI. Most just became raiders or tribal gangs like the Jackals, Vipers, and Khans.
Arroyo was the result of Vault 13 dissidents fucking off to join the Vault Dweller and just two generations later they became a gaggle of idiots who revered him as a god and had only superior survival skills and lived in huts. The village doctor was a motherfucking voodoo priest and they had a dungeon as a trial for the Chosen One.
It wasn't until the Chosen One ended the schism and brought the tech savvy Vault Dweller into the fold they finally discovered stone masonry for homes and became an advanced, thriving settlement.
I can understand a couple of centuries would see the beginning of civilization, but when Edward became Caesar and started his conquest(around the events of Fallout 2) and through out those couple of decades the Midwest was filled with tribes and savages, brimming with them.
On the east coast we saw people living in a baseball stadium and it looked like a shit heap for two centuries after the bombs. You would've thought someone would say "wow maybe we shouldn't live in a giant stadium surrounded by super mutants" and move to the outer region to rebuild society since they didn't have the equipment to clean up.
The only thing I can sort of thank Bethesda for is for bringing Fallout back from the dead. And all things considered, even though I'm not too keen on Fallout 3 and especially not on Fallout 4, I would rather have the games die out on those notes instead of Brotherhood of Steel.
But yeah, leave it to Bethesda to slowly start to ruin their own games due to excessive streamlining and focusing more on gimmicks and modding to sell their games instead of an actual decent story and RPG mechanics.
On the topic of story though, it is pretty clear that Bethesda was never really the optimal choice when it came to writing one for a Fallout game from the beginning. Their stories have almost always been very straightforward RPG stories of "some unknown hero rising up to defeat the ultimate evil of the day." Expecting them to shift gears from over a decade of writing those kinds of stories to the more "shades of grey" stories that Fallout is known for with very little effort would be foolish.
Though it does make me wonder how the series might have turned out if Interplay had sold the rights to other dev studios known for making RPGs.
Which would you guys prefer? A Fallout made by modern Bethesda, or a Fallout made by modern Bioware?
[QUOTE=Rahu X;52546347]Which would you guys prefer. A Fallout made by modern Bethesda, or a Fallout made by modern Bioware?[/QUOTE]
Neither: while Bethesda has their own fair share of problems (which have become more apparent as of late), Bioware arguably has a worse track record than them when it comes to RPG's (i.e: Sonic Chronicles, ME3 and ME:A).
Developers like CD Projekt would've been better choices overall, especially with how they had prior contact with Interplay.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52546336]How long would those books really last after the bombs? Knowledge will also become diluted when passed down.
The successful communities were the result of vaults without specific social experiments, Shady Sands and Vault City. San Francisco was built up by remains of a Chinese submarine crew iirc and their supercomputer AI. Most just became raiders or tribal gangs like the Jackals, Vipers, and Khans.
Arroyo was the result of Vault 13 dissidents fucking off to join the Vault Dweller and just two generations later they became a gaggle of idiots who revered him as a god and had only superior survival skills and lived in huts. The village doctor was a motherfucking voodoo priest and they had a dungeon as a trial for the Chosen One.
It wasn't until the Chosen One ended the schism and brought the tech savvy Vault Dweller into the fold they finally discovered stone masonry for homes and became an advanced, thriving settlement.
I can understand a couple of centuries would see the beginning of civilization, but when Edward became Caesar and started his conquest(around the events of Fallout 2) and through out those couple of decades the Midwest was filled with tribes and savages, brimming with them.
On the east coast we saw people living in a baseball stadium and it looked like a shit heap for two centuries after the bombs. You would've thought someone would say "wow maybe we shouldn't live in a giant stadium surrounded by super mutants" and move to the outer region to rebuild society since they didn't have the equipment to clean up.[/QUOTE]
yea knowledge would be diluted, but its only been what, 200 years? thats only a couple of generations. you still have people living to be pretty old, about as old as today, so its not as if people only live to be 20 years old and thats it. And I mean, books would last for a while. Same with general knowledge. You say it as if all traces of american everything should be gone. 200 years isn't that long, not long enough for all knowledge to be gone.
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;52546372]Neither: while Bethesda has their own fair share of problems (which have become more apparent as of late), Bioware arguably has a worse track record than them when it comes to RPG's (i.e: Sonic Chronicles, ME3 and ME:A).
Developers like CD Projekt would've been better choices overall, especially with how they had prior contact with Interplay.[/QUOTE]
The problem with that is, CDPR was nowhere even close to their prime when Interplay was willing to sell the rights to Fallout. They were still struggling to get off the ground and trying to make the first Witcher game, and I doubt they'd want to sell the rights to a studio who didn't have much money.
Back in 2004, you essentially had 2 choices in terms of "quality" RPG developers since CRPGs in general were starting to really die out. There was Bioware who had a bit of established history with Interplay and a following, and Bethesda who just came onto the larger RPG scene with Morrowind. However, since Bioware wasn't acquired by EA until 2007, it wouldn't have made sense for Interplay to sell the rights to a studio they were still working with, so it ultimately went to Bethesda.
[QUOTE=Naught;52546439]yea knowledge would be diluted, but its only been what, 200 years? thats only a couple of generations. you still have people living to be pretty old, about as old as today, so its not as if people only live to be 20 years old and thats it. And I mean, books would last for a while. Same with general knowledge. You say it as if all traces of american everything should be gone. 200 years isn't that long, not long enough for all knowledge to be gone.[/QUOTE]
And in that 200 years how many communities really retained anything?
Like I said, the only successful settlements to rise up shortly afterwards were Shady Sands, Vault City, and San Francisco. Everyone else was living in their shit and dung heaps. It was a while until Arroyo caught up and even New Vegas was a sleeping giant until House woke up.
The Brotherhood, who descend from pre-war military, was naturally able to retain that information and knowledge. The Followers just happened upon a library shortly after the bombs fell, any while longer and the databases and information would've decayed and be lost to time without anyone to maintain it.
That general knowledge was nowhere to be found by most wastelanders who didn't come from vaults.
I really do miss the original first two games, only if I could erase them from my mind and play them once again as new.
[QUOTE=Naught;52546439]yea knowledge would be diluted, but its only been what, 200 years? thats only a couple of generations. you still have people living to be pretty old, about as old as today, so its not as if people only live to be 20 years old and thats it. And I mean, books would last for a while. Same with general knowledge. You say it as if all traces of american everything should be gone. 200 years isn't that long, not long enough for all knowledge to be gone.[/QUOTE]
Plus, it's not like there wouldn't be any groups available to keep knowledge circulating. Retaining and recycling the knowledge of the past was one of Christianity's greatest acts during the Dark Ages, and there is no reason to believe that there wouldn't be people with enough foresight to lock up all their library in a warm, dry place and get the printing press running after industry starts to come back in earnest. Until then, oral history and good old-fashioned apprenticeships would pick up the slack.
[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;52545939][B]Bethesda acquiring the rights to Fallout was pretty much the death sentence of the series. [/B]Bethesda Fallout games can be alright, but they have nothing to do with the first two games outside of all the iconic and recognizable Beth scooped up from them.
All I really hope for is for somebody to make a proper RPG with the same atmosphere and depth FO1 and 2 had[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Interplay had [i]so much[/i] respect for the Fallout name. Fallout Brotherhood of Steel and the unreleased Fallout Xtreme were quintessential Fallout.
The Fallout series was actually dead before Bethesda bought it, don't pretend there was ever any hope for a continuation of the old style. Not after they killed Van Buren.
[QUOTE=Rahu X;52546347]
On the topic of story though, it is pretty clear that Bethesda was never really the optimal choice when it came to writing one for a Fallout game from the beginning. Their stories have almost always been very straightforward RPG stories of "some unknown hero rising up to defeat the ultimate evil of the day." Expecting them to shift gears from over a decade of writing those kinds of stories to the more "shades of grey" stories that Fallout is known for with very little effort would be foolish.[/QUOTE]
fo1 and 2 were "unknown hero" stories though
just pray that bethesda doesn't make you hunt for another fucking family member again
On the topic of lost knowledge, the wasteland is lousy with intelligent pre-war ghouls. Figure that would sort that out. Just ask them.
this guy apparently just wants a tribal aesthetic fallout
[QUOTE=Wii60;52546739]this guy apparently just wants a tribal aesthetic fallout[/QUOTE]
I don't like his whole thing about why Bethesda games are bad simply because they went for something different, even though I can agree with and see many problems. But he wants something that fits the dreary, desolate and dying world, with tension not just from some random encounter that can one-shot you but a world and/or story that actually has a palpable and dark atmosphere with a borderline horror ambiance. His problems stem more from the fact that Fallout 3 and 4 seem to have more of a bombastic, epic adventure casting you as the hero within a recovering world, one that is more of a tour that revolves around the player, compared to the cruel and uncaring world of old that you stumble through with little relation to much of anything unless you go out of your way for it.
Incidentally, the way he described certain matters involving the world tone for FO1 and 2 feel a lot like what S.T.A.L.K.E.R. happened to pull off.
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