[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWYaUCMKRag[/media]
[quote][b]Prisoners are to get the right to vote as the government is poised to throw in the towel in a long-running legal tussle with the European court of human rights, it emerged today.[/b]
It is understood that the coalition is to confirm that it is ready to change the law to remove the voting ban on more than 70,000 inmates of British jails.
...
David Cameron was said to be "exasperated and furious" at having to accept that there was no way of keeping the UK's 140-year-old blanket ban on sentenced prisoners voting.
There was no official confirmation of the decision to drop the ban, but a representative of the government is expected to signal the move in a statement to the court of appeal tomorrow.
No decision is thought to have been taken on exactly how the change will be implemented and which inmates are to be given the right to vote.
[b]The Daily Telegraph reported that the ban could be retained for murderers and others serving life sentences and that judges may be given responsibility for deciding which criminals should be allowed to vote when they are sentenced.[/b]
The paper quoted an unnamed senior government source as saying: "This is the last thing we wanted to do but we have looked at this from every conceivable angle and had lawyers poring over the issue.
"But there is no way out and if we continued to delay then it could start costing the taxpayers hundreds of millions in litigation."
Sentenced prisoners were originally denied the right to take part in ballots under the Forfeiture Act 1870, and the ban was retained in the Representation of the People Act 1983. Prisoners on remand awaiting trial, fine defaulters and people jailed for contempt of court can vote.
Following a legal challenge from prisoner John Hirst, the ECHR ruled in 2004 that the blanket ban was discriminatory and breached the European convention on human rights. However the Strasbourg-based court said that each country can decide which offences should carry restrictions to voting rights.
The former Labour administration kicked the issue into the long grass with a series of consultations. But the Council of Europe warned earlier this year that the UK government's failure to comply with the ECHR ruling risked sparking many more compensation claims.
...
[i][url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/02/prisoners-vote-european-court-human-rights[/url][/i][/quote]
European overlords.
I quess this is only good thing. It's not like his is going to make a big difference.
if you commit a crime and end up in jail why should you get the right to vote
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825389]if you commit a crime and end up in jail why should you get the right to vote[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I thought the whole point of prison was that you committed a crime and as such relinquished your rights for the duration of the stay there.
Pretty soon prisons are just going to be long stay hotel rooms. :colbert:
they have done a crime so they get no rights also on the point prisoners get more rights then soilders (which is wrong)
Facepunch, why do you so often feel anyone who commits any crime is the scum of the Earth and deserves to be treated as such? I thought we did away with that at the end of the Dark Ages...
Why should people that are jailed be unable to vote? Is there a reason beyond "They broke da law!" that any of you actually have to revoke someone's ability to be represented by their government?
i'm getting really tired of these sort of people, saying prisoners should have the right to vote and you shouldn't smack your kids in public and you can't do this and you can't do that
please kindly fuck off
[editline]3rd November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825569]Facepunch, why do you so often feel anyone who commits any crime is the scum of the Earth and deserves to be treated as such? I thought we did away with that at the end of the Dark Ages...
Why should people that are jailed be unable to vote? Is there a reason beyond "They broke da law!" that any of you actually have to revoke someone's ability to be represented by their government?[/QUOTE]
it's called punishment. if you break the fucking law, you get locked up and you learn your lesson
not being able to choose who leads your country is part of this. besides, if you give that to prisoners, people start going OH WELL WE SHOULD GIVE THEM HIGH QUALITY OF LIFE and other stupid bullshit
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825569]Facepunch, why do you so often feel anyone who commits any crime is the scum of the Earth and deserves to be treated as such? I thought we did away with that at the end of the Dark Ages...
Why should people that are jailed be unable to vote? Is there a reason beyond "They broke da law!" that any of you actually have to revoke someone's ability to be represented by their government?[/QUOTE]
They willingly broke the law, I don't see why they should be fucking molly coddled for it.
There are prisons up here in scotland where on good behaviour, they let you out for a few hours everyday to work and make some money for yourself, where you can get xboxs and tv's as well.
Do you know how fucking good it is? read this.:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7366258.stm[/url]
Prison should not be a fucking nice place and it's all loving fuck sticks like you who have made it a place not feared.
[QUOTE=bravehat;25825591]They willingly broke the law, I don't see why they should be fucking molly coddled for it.
There are prisons up here in scotland where on good behaviour, they let you out for a few hours everyday to work and make some money for yourself, where you can get xboxs and tv's as well.
Do you know how fucking good it is? read this.:
[URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7366258.stm[/URL]
Prison should not be a fucking nice place and it's all loving fuck sticks like you who have made it a place not feared.[/QUOTE]
You avoided my question. And how is not taking away a person's right to representation molly coddling?!
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825595]You avoided my question. And how is not taking away a person's right to representation molly coddling?![/QUOTE]
you fuckstick, we didn't avoid your question. it's a called a prison for a reason, not a place where people have rights even though they murdered somebody and raped their dog
The very foundation of democracy lies in the power of voting and having the ability to voice your opinion
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825598]you fuckstick, we didn't avoid your question. it's a called a prison for a reason, not a place where people have rights even though they murdered somebody and raped their dog[/QUOTE]
They do have rights! What is wrong with you?! Seriously, this line of thinking is terrifying.
[QUOTE=demoguy08;25825604]The very foundation of democracy lies in the power of voting and having the ability to voice your opinion[/QUOTE]
and if you commit a crime say goodbye to it, because that's your punishment for fucking up order
[editline]3rd November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825605]They do have rights! What is wrong with you?! Seriously, this line of thinking is terrifying.[/QUOTE]
they know what they did was bad, and they know the consequences. you lose your rights when you knowingly get yourself locked up in jail. this isn't some big free world where everybody has rights and we're all best friends, if you murder somebody, you get locked away and you lose privleges
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825607]and if you commit a crime say goodbye to it, because that's your punishment for fucking up order[/QUOTE]
What level of punishment would you prefer for prisoners, then? Mind you, the only common goal of any prison system is to keep the imprisoned population from the free population, so anything else is something we tack on. Restricting voting rights is not inherent in imprisonment.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825569]Facepunch, why do you so often feel anyone who commits any crime is the scum of the Earth and deserves to be treated as such? I thought we did away with that at the end of the Dark Ages...
Why should people that are jailed be unable to vote? Is there a reason beyond "They broke da law!" that any of you actually have to revoke someone's ability to be represented by their government?[/QUOTE]
So if someone broke into your house, stole all your shit and burnt it down, you would be ok with them choosing which government affects you and that they'd be allowed to watch tv and be to earn money?
I certainly wouldn't.
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825607]and if you commit a crime say goodbye to it, because that's your punishment for fucking up order[/QUOTE]
Why is that? Democracy is waay more important than any individual, and for that reason the individual must have the ability to vote
[QUOTE=spaghettiarms;25825628]So if someone broke into your house, stole all your shit and burnt it down, you would be ok with them choosing which government affects you and that they'd be allowed to watch tv and be to earn money?
I certainly wouldn't.[/QUOTE]
Don't conflate violent and non-violent offenders. Anyone can be jailed, not just violent people.
And I wouldn't mind him voting. I'm plenty enough concerned with normal voters.
[QUOTE=demoguy08;25825629]Why is that? Democracy is waay more important than any individual, and for that reason the individual must have the ability to vote[/QUOTE]
you don't get it. if the individual commited a crime, knowing that they lose the right to vote, then they don't deserve it. if they want to vote, don't go to jail.
What I've read in this thread is a bunch of people who have, no doubt, done illegal things before, but didn't get caught, so they're exempt, but people who got caught are scum and should be treated like worthless insects.
imagine if somebody murdered your family and went to jail. would you be happy if he could vote, especially if it's some sort of radical party that allows all sorts of benefits for prisoners
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825653]you don't get it. if the individual commited a crime, knowing that they lose the right to vote, then they don't deserve it. if they want to vote, don't go to jail.[/QUOTE]
No one innocent has ever been jailed. No one has ever been given an excessive punishment for a crime. Everyone who is in jail deserves to be there! (Hint: All that is a lie)
[editline]3rd November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825670]imagine if somebody murdered your family and went to jail. would you be happy if he could vote, especially if it's some sort of radical party that allows all sorts of benefits for prisoners[/QUOTE]
Murderers are the smallest population in jails. They barely even matter here.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825673]No one innocent has ever been jailed. No one has ever been given an excessive punishment for a crime. Everyone who is in jail deserves to be there! (Hint: All that is a lie)[/QUOTE]
then that's the courts fault. besides, you're saying almost everyone in jail is innocent. there's a small percent that is, and you're saying just because a few people are innocent, that a huge majority of utter scumbags should be able to shape the country?
wow
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825690]then that's the courts fault. besides, you're saying almost everyone in jail is innocent. there's a small percent that is, and you're saying just because a few people are innocent, that a huge majority of utter scumbags should be able to shape the country?
wow[/QUOTE]
You just cited a potentially equally small population, so yay for hypocrisy? I don't have utter contempt for any person that happens to be in jail, so I have no problem with them voting.
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825653]you don't get it. if the individual commited a crime, knowing that they lose the right to vote, then they don't deserve it. if they want to vote, don't go to jail.[/QUOTE]
And you don't get that the decision to remove their rights to vote was wrong in the first place.
[QUOTE=Thy Reaper;25825645]Don't conflate violent and non-violent offenders. Anyone can be jailed, not just violent people.
And I wouldn't mind him voting. I'm plenty enough concerned with normal voters.[/QUOTE]
That was just an example. It could be anyone drug, dealers, tax absconders, money launderers. The list goes on with crimes worth going to prison for.
It doesn't change the fact that the majority of people dont want criminals to have a better and potentially easier life then the law abiding working man. I dont want 70,000 prisoners voting for the government that is offering a better life to prisoners, especially not now when this country is as fucked as it is.
You commit a crime, you go to prison, you have a miserable time. Were not saying we want them to be lashed or tortured! They just shouldn't have privileges, because's they knew (thought) whats what they were sacrificing when they committed the crime, and they need to pay for it.
[QUOTE=spaghettiarms;25825715]That was just an example. It could be anyone drug, dealers, tax absconders, money launderers. The list goes on with crimes worth going to prison for.
It doesn't change the fact that the majority of people dont want criminals to have a better and potentially easier life then the law abiding working man. I dont want 70,000 prisoners voting for the government that is offering a better life to prisoners, especially not now when this country is as fucked as it is.
You commit a crime, you go to prison, you have a miserable time. Were not saying we want them to be lashed or tortured! They just shouldn't have privileges, because's they knew (thought) whats what they were sacrificing when they committed the crime, and they need to pay for it.[/QUOTE]
basically, this
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825690]then that's the courts fault. besides, you're saying almost everyone in jail is innocent. there's a small percent that is, and you're saying just because a few people are innocent, that a huge majority of utter scumbags should be able to shape the country?
wow[/QUOTE]
there are people outside of jail who think blacks should be hung, and these people still have the right to vote.
[QUOTE=The_Putty;25825670]imagine if somebody murdered your family and went to jail. would you be happy if he could vote, especially if it's some sort of radical party that allows all sorts of benefits for prisoners[/QUOTE]
What about people that aren't in jail for life? Yeah, they should be treated like insects. Not everyone in jail is never coming out and I sure as fuck would like a say in who is going to be leading my country when I get out and I know you would want that, too.
people are people
deal w/ it
[QUOTE=Chirno;25825730]What about people that aren't in jail for life? Yeah, they should be treated like insects. Not everyone in jail is never coming out and I sure as fuck would like a say in who is going to be leading my country when I get out and I know you would want that, too.[/QUOTE]
the point of jail is punishment to stop you from commiting crimes. some people go to jail because they don't have anywhere better to go. not only do they get to vote, they get all sorts of benefits. the only thing giving them voting rights will cause is more crime, anger in the general populace, further reforms to improving prisoner life, and the chance of causing some radical party to get elected all because you gave prisoners voting rights
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