Here we go again: Love propaganda - General

Alright! I had a thread in the general discussion, but it got closed, because people were way off-topic. Now that we have "Mass Debate" I'll try it out again. [B]I don't want to hear any personal love stories.[/B] This is what I said in the previous thread: I've had something on my mind for quite a while now. It's a huge western world problem, I'd say, and it's our perspective on love. Now I'll try explaining what I mean, but it might come out messy. I think that because of movies and tv-series (a specially american), the 1st world has become overly obsessed with Love. I am of course talking of the love for another human being. 90% of all movies and tv-series contain love as a morale. That morale always says that love is the only true meaning of life. Finding the love of your life! When there is love, you are allowed to break all rules. If love is the reason for breaking the rules, you will always be forgiven. So, why I bring this up, is because I think this is frightening! Love is important for many people, yes, but not for the whole of human race. Many human beings will find other things in life which become just as important for them, but that is not what these silly tings on TV say. Have you watched the new movies and animations for kids? It's guaranteed to contain a love-morale, and thus teaching them that love is what you should seek in life. At times, I would even call it propaganda. I've seen what I'd like to call "teens that have been infected" by this love-era, and they're just so provoking. They think they're smart and reflective about thoughts on life, but they're really just being ignorant, when they say when it all comes down to it, love is the only true meaningful thing in life. An example of a quote that I find provoking: "Love is life's goal, whoever seeks for something else, will be disappointed". Now, am I the only one who's thinking this way? Is love too much in focus now-adays? Isn't there something wrong about filling everyones mind with love, when that might not be what's right for the person? Can we call it "1st world love propagand"? A lot of people die alone, and still feel they've had a successful life. What about them? Why don't we hear about that? [B]DISCUSS[/B]

I think love is the ultimate goal any human being should achieve. Love is the ultimate motivator that causes real change in the world. What is wrong is that media doesn't have the idea of love right. Love is not just some fuzzy feeling you feel for a girl(or guy), love itself also does not cause you happiness, or wealth, or a long life. We can't keep thinking that because you are in love with another human being that you have achieved love in your life. Love is something from within yourself. Someone doesn't make you love them, something doesn't cause you love. You find love when you can begin to understand other people, other ways of looking at ideas and thoughts. Love means that even when you disagree with someone you understand that they are a human being with dignity. Love means that when you find an idea you aren't familiar with you understand it as an idea with some form of merit. Love is a matter of compassion and understanding you give to the people and things around you. It is the respect of other people, it is the respect of other points of view. AND ULTIMATELY it is the respect and compassion you give to yourself. It is the weight that you focus on your own beliefs and morals. You can't be a loving human being when you aren't even sure how you feel about issues in your own life. "The thought manifests as the word. The word manifests as the deed. The deed develops into habit. And the habit hardens into character. So watch the thought and its ways with care. And let it spring from love, born out of concern for all beings." Buddha

Wait, I don't really think we're on the same definitions of 'love'. Yawmwen, are you using love as a synonym for passion?

[QUOTE=eatdembeanz;32816174]Wait, I don't really think we're on the same definitions of 'love'. Yawmwen, are you using love as a synonym for passion?[/QUOTE] Maybe so. I'm not talking about passion as much as compassion and understanding. The love that you feel for another human being isn't just that feeling you get where you want them around, where you want to live with them or whatever. Love for a human is a matter of respect and understanding. It is universal and goes deeper than those surface emotions you may feel. Love is that true concern and compassion you feel for people, even when they may piss you off or irritate you. So if you are talking about love as just a surface emotion used for sexual attraction and infatuation then yes, we are talking about two different things. But that also plays into my point that the media waters down the meaning of love into that shallow emotion. Love is the ultimate pursuit in life, but if people don't know what love really is they can't pursue it.

Love can be used to describe varying feelings. Love could mean that you have positive feelings towards something. However I feel the idea of 'true love' as it is called to be quite laughable and more rooted in the realms of obsession rather than actual love. This is mostly why I hate romantic movies, which seem to end up being shallow, so yes I do agree with what you're saying.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32816322]Love can be used to describe varying feelings. Love could mean that you have positive feelings towards something. However I feel the idea of 'true love' as it is called to be quite laughable and more rooted in the realms of obsession rather than actual love.[/QUOTE] It's the obsession part people get confused in. What the media portrays is essentially the "crush" or infatuation part of a relationship, especially the Twilight movies portray this excellent.

I'm incredibly sickened by the obsession in modern society with sex and love, I personally think it's almost got to the point where it's hindering us as a species.

Of course, some people would say that the modern mass media focusses too much on sex and not enough on emotion.

[QUOTE=Capitulazyguy;32817092]Of course, some people would say that the modern mass media focusses too much on sex and not enough on emotion.[/QUOTE] No, that's not it. Lot of movies with what is claimed to be deep, intense love. And yawmwen, you broaden the definition. It might be the correct thing to do, but I'm talking about the love to another person. Let's keep it to that, and how that is being exaggerated through media and films. If you understand me. O.o

Fantasy love is kinda like porn, it raises your expectations too much. It's not common to have the same romantic deep love in real life as they show in movies.

Love is only when the existance or happening of a thing or more likely a person makes you feel good inside. It's a lot less complex than people make it out to be. [editline]17th October 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=inkystinky;32813657] A lot of people die alone[/QUOTE] We're all alone when we die.

Love is a concept of belonging, and belonging is a very commonly used concept in the world of western fiction. Love is pretty much the easiest catalyst to use in relation with belonging. Sadly, love has become cliche because of this. I agree that it is done too much, but it is hard to avoid using it.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;32826146]Love is a concept of belonging, and belonging is a very commonly used concept in the world of western fiction. Love is pretty much the easiest catalyst to use in relation with belonging. Sadly, love has become cliche because of this. I agree that it is done too much, but it is hard to avoid using it.[/QUOTE] What are you talking about? The belonging of love or that love is belonging?

[QUOTE=AK'z;32826285]What are you talking about? The belonging of love or that love is belonging?[/QUOTE] Love [i]is[/i] belonging to something or someone, but it is not the only concept that belonging can be made from (for example, a person can "belong" to a group not out of love for the group, but for fear of isolation if they are not part of the group). I thought I made that rather clear?

[QUOTE=Antdawg;32826292]Love [i]is[/i] belonging to something or someone, but it is not the only concept that belonging can be made from (for example, a person can "belong" to a group not out of love for the group, but for fear of isolation if they are not part of the group). I thought I made that rather clear?[/QUOTE] But you miss the aspect that people experience this feeling when certain things happen. It isn't about "belonging" to a group because it's more personal. I can't quite grasp the meaning of your initial point. [editline]17th October 2011[/editline] I think what you mean is, take family for example.. if it is a big one, you can feel love to be part of it, but the more important thing for the individual is to feel love for the individuals who make that group up.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32826340]But you miss the aspect that people experience this feeling when certain things happen. It isn't about "belonging" to a group because it's more personal. I can't quite grasp the meaning of your initial point. [editline]17th October 2011[/editline] I think what you mean is, take family for example.. if it is a big one, you can feel love to be part of it, but the more important thing for the individual is to feel love for the individuals who make that group up.[/QUOTE] For fuck sakes why must I go on? Most western fiction follows the concept of belonging. Name any piece of fiction and it will have it in it. Romeo and Juliet, 1984 etc. Ok? However, most authors tend to use love to display the concept of belonging. Obviously 1984 isn't a good example for displaying love as a concept of belonging, but many pieces of fiction do use love to show the concept of belonging (Romeo and Juliet). This is why I mentioned belonging in the first place. Because belonging is used too much, and in most situations love is used to display belonging, which is why love has become cliche. This is my whole original point. This is me agreeing with the OP and justifying why. Summary of my points if you still don't get it: I agree with OP, the world is obsessed with love. But that is because love is the easiest way to show the concept of belonging, and the concept of belonging can be found in most pieces of fiction. Many authors are fucking unoriginal.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;32826389]For fuck sakes why must I go on? Most western fiction follows the concept of belonging. Name any piece of fiction and it will have it in it. Romeo and Juliet, 1984 etc. Ok? However, most authors tend to use love to display the concept of belonging. Obviously 1984 isn't a good example for displaying love as a concept of belonging, but many pieces of fiction do use love to show the concept of belonging (Romeo and Juliet). This is why I mentioned belonging in the first place. Because belonging is used too much, and in most situations love is used to display belonging, which is why love has become cliche. This is my whole original point. This is me agreeing with the OP and justifying why. Summary of my points if you still don't get it: I agree with OP, the world is obsessed with love. But that is because love is the easiest way to show the concept of belonging, and the concept of belonging can be found in most pieces of fiction.[/QUOTE] You see, I don't think that's right. But if you don't want to discuss then fair enough. Say the film, Schindler's List isn't about loving to belong and many people understood that. Love stories tend to be more about loving life than someone belonging. Romeo & Juliet is, quite frankly, an ancient love story tale. So poor example because it is far too familiar.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32826459]You see, I don't think that's right. But if you don't want to discuss then fair enough. Say the film, Schindler's List isn't about loving to belong and many people understood that. Love stories tend to be more about loving life than someone belonging. Romeo & Juliet is, quite frankly, an ancient love story tale. So poor example because it is far too familiar.[/QUOTE] Love stories can display a love of life by the people involved in it, but how did they get to the point where they can love life? Because they belong to something. If you got your typical couple in your typical love story, they belong to each other. Because of that, they can be happy because each one can love the other and get love back in return. I think you got the definition of belonging to be wrong... it's a very basic concept of x being related to y. The relation between x and y can be represented in all different ways, whether it be a, b or c. That is belonging. A person can belong to anything, whether it be another person, a group, a culture or even just a banner. A person can also not belong to anything as well, but that is still a concept of belonging because that is still a relation between x and y, but it's a relation of not belonging to one another. There are numerous words for belonging, and here are some examples of belonging: Love, Nationalism and Friendship. They are all different concepts of belonging.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;32826515]Love stories can display a love of life by the people involved in it, but how did they get to the point where they can love life? Because they belong to something. If you got your typical couple in your typical love story, they belong to each other. Because of that, they can be happy because each one can love the other and get love back in return. I think you got the definition of belonging to be wrong... it's a very basic concept of x being related to y. The relation between x and y can be represented in all different ways, whether it be a, b or c. That is belonging.[/QUOTE] I don't think couples think that they're each others property. More that they love the experiences of being with the other. I didn't mistake the meaning of belonging, you just didn't make a valid point.

[QUOTE=AK'z;32826605]More that they love the experiences of being with the other.[/QUOTE] That is belonging, is it not? It is two people having relations with each other. I'm not talking about belonging as being in possession of something, I'm talking about relating or being a part of something.

[QUOTE=Antdawg;32826623]That is belonging, is it not? It is two people having relations with each other.[/QUOTE] nah, the word belong is more about the individual rather than a couple. However, the "relating" with each other is good. That's a given.

Studies suggest that the increase in unrealistic expectations of relationships has led to higher divorce rates.

I love to hate, does that count?

[QUOTE=The one that is;32827038]I love to hate, does that count?[/QUOTE] yeah but to you hate love?

[QUOTE=Rubs10;32826923]Studies suggest that the increase in unrealistic expectations of relationships has led to higher divorce rates.[/QUOTE] Yes exactly. Fantasy love most of the time is not at all like real love. But media teaches us that it should be so it gets where it gets

It also teaches people that they will never be happy until they find "true love", which in my opinion is abhorrent

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32827613]It also teaches people that they will never be happy until they find "true love", which in my opinion is abhorrent[/QUOTE] Also, why does the media teach us that love has to be directed at a person? Your love can be a cause you're devoted to or a hobby that defines your life.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;32828623]Also, why does the media teach us that love has to be directed at a person? Your love can be a cause you're devoted to or a hobby that defines your life.[/QUOTE] Pretty much this is how I feel. I also detest much of the sexism found in the media's idea of love, which usually tends to follow the general stereotype of male dominant relationships.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32829068]Pretty much this is how I feel. I also detest much of the sexism found in the media's idea of love, which usually tends to follow the general stereotype of male dominant relationships.[/QUOTE]How can one person be dominant in a relationship? In what way does that express?

[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32827575]Yes exactly. Fantasy love most of the time is not at all like real love. But media teaches us that it should be so it gets where it gets[/QUOTE] I reckon you're talking about lust when you say "fantasy love". Or they at least have some overlapping characteristics. To look at love from a utilitarian perspective, having a partnership and connection with someone based on a shared experience and goals can act as a great consiliator, motivator, and outlet for someone. Love is not a necessary precondition to procreation, but as far as natural imperative goes love can also facilitate the continuation of the species. Love, IMO, is (I think I got this form Cracked.com, but it's a good one) a series of actions and circumstances that accumulate over time between two people that breeds an understanding between the parties.