UK MPs block Human Rights Act repeal effort - Polidicks

[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20598122[/url] [quote=BBC News][B]MPs have defeated a bid by a Tory MP to scrap the Human Rights Act.[/B] Richard Bacon said the act had been used by the European Court of Human Rights to influence British law, which was "fundamentally undemocratic". But Labour's Thomas Docherty said Mr Bacon had misunderstood the legal impact of the act and praised it as one of Labour's most important reforms during government. MPs voted against Mr Bacon's 10-minute rule bill by 195 to 72. It will therefore make no further parliamentary progress. Mr Bacon told MPs unelected judges in the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg had too much power. A number of MPs are unhappy with a ruling by the ECHR which says the UK's blanket ban on prisoner voting is a breach of human rights. [B]'Fundamental human rights'[/B] He said: "A supra national court can impose its will against ours and, in my view, this is fundamentally undemocratic. "Judges do not have access to a tablet of stone not available to the rest of us that allow them better to discern what our people need than we can possibly do as their elected, fallible, corrigible representatives. "There is no set of values so universally agreed we can appeal to them as a useful final arbiter. In the end, they will always be shown up as either uselessly vague or controversially specific. "In the end, questions of major social policy - whether on abortion, or capital punishment, or the right to bear firearms, or workers' rights - should be decided by elected representatives, and not by unelected judges." However, Labour's Thomas Docherty argued that Mr Bacon had misunderstood the legal impact of the act. Ultimately, the European court had jurisdiction in the UK, not because of the Human Rights Act, but because of the UK's membership of the European Convention on Human Rights, he said. Repealing the act would therefore not achieve Mr Bacon's aims, the Labour MP concluded. Mr Docherty also defended the act in its own right, saying it guaranteed fundamental rights to British citizens - including the right to life and a prohibition on torture. "To turn our back, to tear up, to cast aside this bill that enshrines into law those fundamental human rights which we ask others to respect would remove the legitimacy of our position," he said. "The strongest argument against repeal is this is the decade in which we hope to welcome more countries, particularly our neighbours to the east of Europe and Asia and to the south of Europe, into the families of democratic, civilised nations. "How can we ask developing countries, the new democracies, to respect human rights when we seek to remove them from our statute book?"[/quote]

[quote]A number of MPs are unhappy with a ruling by the ECHR which says the UK's blanket ban on prisoner voting is a breach of human rights.[/quote] The fact that people are willing to give up the legislation protecting their basic rights as human beings over something this inconsequential is absolutely terrifying.

Yeah I thought the new Tory Freedoms bill thing was to do with this. Glad they didn't get this passed. [editline]4th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=ThisGuy0;38702050]The fact that people are willing to give up the legislation protecting their basic rights as human beings over something this inconsequential is absolutely terrifying.[/QUOTE] It isn't quite like that, essentially the Tories wanted to replace the EU human rights legislation with one written by them. However I personally don't want the Tories deciding my human rights so I'm glad this fell flat.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38702055] It isn't quite like that, essentially the Tories wanted to replace the EU human rights legislation with one written by them. However I personally don't want the Tories deciding my human rights so I'm glad this fell flat.[/QUOTE] I know they want to replace it with this 'British bill of rights' idea but Cameron and co always seem to be going on about the 'responsibilities' that they want to include along with those rights, which is completely missing the point of rights.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38702055] It isn't quite like that, essentially the Tories wanted to replace the EU human rights legislation with one written by them. However I personally don't want the Tories deciding my human rights so I'm glad this fell flat.[/QUOTE] I agree, from what I understand it would completely remove the ECHR from the picture, meaning there would be nothing to fall back on if the government decided to do something completely dumb. Unsurprised it failed though, it was started as a 10 minute rule bill. I can't think of many that have actually become law.

[quote]Richard Bacon said the act had been used by the European Court of Human Rights to influence British law, which was "fundamentally undemocratic".[/quote] Amazing. A democratic institution trying to make sure everyone is treated fairly is undemocratic. I swear to God, euroscepticism is grasping at thinner straws by the day. EDIT: I also think that London imposing its law on Manchester is fundamentally undemocratic. Let's all return to city-states, yes?

[QUOTE=deltasquid;38704374]Amazing. A democratic institution trying to make sure everyone is treated fairly is undemocratic. I swear to God, euroscepticism is grasping at thinner straws by the day. EDIT: I also think that London imposing its law on Manchester is fundamentally undemocratic. Let's all return to city-states, yes?[/QUOTE] Ridiculous. I'm not having those bastards who live across town imposing their laws on me. We need to have street-states

[QUOTE=smurfy;38704449]Ridiculous. I'm not having those bastards who live across town imposing their laws on me. We need to have street-states[/QUOTE] God knows my neighbours hate me and will impose their will on my fine garden (which is ever so green) Every house should have full sovereignty!

Out of all the EU laws to attack to appease their Eurosceptic voter base, they chose the Human Rights Act first? [editline]4th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=deltasquid;38704463]God knows my neighbours hate me and will impose their will on my fine garden (which is ever so green) Every house should have full sovereignty![/QUOTE]I shall fight for dominance in my apartment block, and be declared King of 2E

[QUOTE=deltasquid;38704463]God knows my neighbours hate me and will impose their will on my fine garden (which is ever so green) Every house should have full sovereignty![/QUOTE] But then my parents will impose dumbass backwards laws like no skateboarding and hippy hop rap music in the house Individual sovereignty NOW

[QUOTE=smurfy;38704482]But then my parents will impose dumbass backwards laws like no skateboarding and hippy hop rap music in the house Individual sovereignty NOW[/QUOTE] This is discriminatory for individual limbs and I will not stand for it!

So, to clear this up, are the Torys basically the British version of American Republicans?

[QUOTE=Schmaaa;38705011]So, to clear this up, are the Torys basically the British version of American Republicans?[/QUOTE] In some respects, although they're less socially conservative, they do have some elements of social conservatism in the party. Economically they're very similar though.

[QUOTE=Schmaaa;38705011]So, to clear this up, are the Torys basically the British version of American Republicans?[/QUOTE] I think UKIP is our closest equivalent to the Republicans. The Tory leadership right now is very socially moderate, definitely closer to the Democrats in that respect. Economically maybe

[QUOTE=deltasquid;38704775]This is discriminatory for individual limbs and I will not stand for it![/QUOTE] My heart just formed a parliament, and there is a political deadlock going on between the main party and the opposition. They need to agree soon, otherwis

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38705218]My heart just formed a parliament, and there is a political deadlock going on between the main party and the opposition. They need to agree soon, otherwis[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20110504.gif[/IMG]