Putin admits Russian forces were deployed to Crimea - Polidicks

[url]http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/17/russia-putin-crimea-idUKL6N0N921H20140417[/url] [quote]President Vladimir Putin said Russian forces had been active in Crimea in order to support local defence forces, the first time he has admitted deployment of Russian troops on the Black Sea peninsula. "We had to take unavoidable steps so that events did not develop as they are currently developing in southeast Ukraine," Putin said in a televised call-in with the nation. "Of course our troops stood behind Crimea's self-defence forces."[/quote]

in a month he'll say : we had troops deployed in eastern ukraine to make sure it didn't develop into the situation now happening in Poland and all the other Baltic countries but we don't have anything to do with those.

about time

It's not a good thing that he just straight out admitted it, I have a bad feeling about this

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44570903]It's not a good thing that he just straight out admitted it, I have a bad feeling about this[/QUOTE]It was nice knowing you.

[QUOTE=moffe;44570861]in a month he'll say : we had troops deployed in eastern ukraine to make sure it didn't develop into the situation now happening in Poland and all the other Baltic countries but we don't have anything to do with those.[/QUOTE] I guarantee the minute anything like this happens in a NATO country it's going to get dealt with extremely quickly, and not necessarily violently. That being said, it's a shame NATO can't (or won't, or both) do more for Ukraine.

This Russian....He has ruined everything! :v:

No shit.

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44570903]It's not a good thing that he just straight out admitted it, I have a bad feeling about this[/QUOTE] Don't mate, he always does this. Remember Georgia, how Putin and Medvedev were all "OH UNEXPECTED GEORGIAN ATTACK ON OSSETIA IS SO UNEXPECTED, PROVOKATIONS SO NOT PLANNED!" And then when Putin became president again (wasn't elected, certainly, just [b]became[/b] one), his second press-conference "oh we absolutely planned the thing ahead by two years". This man can't keep his fucking mouths shut after he lies, he absolutely has to show the world what a mastermind he is, how cool his plans are. Sorta like he's revealing something no one previously suspected, much less known for certain with mounts of evidence. [editline]17th April 2014[/editline] Actually, it fucking blows my mind how this smug fuck can basically admit to lying (and now our diplomats are smeared with shit and look like a bunch of idiots, good job, Pu) and say "there're no Russian involvement in eastern Ukraine" [b]in the same fucking press-conference[/b]. Like, no one in the world except for your dog believes you under normal circumstances anyway, and this shit doesn't strengten your claim one fucking bit. It's idiotic, I'm seriously becoming convinced that Putin has become crazy or something.

[QUOTE=gudman;44572652] Actually, it fucking blows my mind how this smug fuck can basically admit to lying (and now our diplomats are smeared with shit and look like a bunch of idiots, good job, Pu) and say "there're no Russian involvement in eastern Ukraine" [b]in the same fucking press-conference[/b]. Like, no one in the world except for your dog believes you under normal circumstances anyway, and this shit doesn't strengten your claim one fucking bit. It's idiotic, I'm seriously becoming convinced that Putin has become crazy or something.[/QUOTE] That raises the question of how much do russians themselves believe what Putin says and what kind of reasoning there is used to justify this habitual double-talk? Can you tell? Because my understanding is that in the eyes of his domestic audience it makes him seem clever rather than unreliable. AFAIK that doesn't have any real detrimental effect to his popularity, so rather than becoming crazy, I see him more as taunting the West. Making a point that even if West knows who they are they STILL can't do anything about it.

[QUOTE=Vlevs;44572882]That raises the question of how much do russians themselves believe what Putin says and what kind of reasoning there is used to justify this habitual double-talk? Can you tell? Because my understanding is that in the eyes of his domestic audience it makes him seem clever rather than unreliable. AFAIK that doesn't have any real detrimental effect to his popularity, so rather than becoming crazy, I see him more as taunting the West. Making a point that even if West knows who they are they STILL can't do anything about it.[/QUOTE] Undoubtedly, there're people who believe in this shit. Undoubtedly, there're a lot of them, there always are. The real numbers are absolutely impossible to find out though, because all of the statistical institutes are run by state, and those that aren't are... shady at best, they contradict their own studies routinely in the same research, never publish their methods etc. There's one thing I can say with plausible degree of certainty, no one around me believes in anything official propaganda says, and almost no one around my friends, family, co-workers etc. does. But I do pick my surroundings very carefully, so that hardly says something.

[QUOTE=gudman;44573028] There's one thing I can say with plausible degree of certainty, no one around me believes in anything official propaganda says, and almost no one around my friends, family, co-workers etc. does. But I do pick my surroundings very carefully, so that hardly says something.[/QUOTE] Thanks for the personal account. It's hard to gauge from outside what mood russians have, I don't consider Russian media very reliable and western media doesn't really care.

[QUOTE=gudman;44572652]Don't mate, he always does this. Remember Georgia, how Putin and Medvedev were all "OH UNEXPECTED GEORGIAN ATTACK ON OSSETIA IS SO UNEXPECTED, PROVOKATIONS SO NOT PLANNED!" And then when Putin became president again (wasn't elected, certainly, just [b]became[/b] one), his second press-conference "oh we absolutely planned the thing ahead by two years". This man can't keep his fucking mouths shut after he lies, he absolutely has to show the world what a mastermind he is, how cool his plans are. Sorta like he's revealing something no one previously suspected, much less known for certain with mounts of evidence. [editline]17th April 2014[/editline] Actually, it fucking blows my mind how this smug fuck can basically admit to lying (and now our diplomats are smeared with shit and look like a bunch of idiots, good job, Pu) and say "there're no Russian involvement in eastern Ukraine" [b]in the same fucking press-conference[/b]. Like, no one in the world except for your dog believes you under normal circumstances anyway, and this shit doesn't strengten your claim one fucking bit. It's idiotic, I'm seriously becoming convinced that Putin has become crazy or something.[/QUOTE] Do you actually live in Russia? I've heard that if you get caught talking like that you could get a visit from the Russian gestapo or a life-time membership in one of Putin's gula-I mean happy fun spa exercise camps.

...but we promise not to do it again guys! honestly, just after we finish ukraine it'll be cool

[QUOTE=gudman;44572652]Don't mate, he always does this. Remember Georgia, how Putin and Medvedev were all "OH UNEXPECTED GEORGIAN ATTACK ON OSSETIA IS SO UNEXPECTED, PROVOKATIONS SO NOT PLANNED!" And then when Putin became president again (wasn't elected, certainly, just [b]became[/b] one), his second press-conference "oh we absolutely planned the thing ahead by two years". This man can't keep his fucking mouths shut after he lies, he absolutely has to show the world what a mastermind he is, how cool his plans are. Sorta like he's revealing something no one previously suspected, much less known for certain with mounts of evidence.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but then he admitted it after it was over, the Ukrainian conflict is far from over. I don't know why but it bothers me

I hope everyone understands that all of this bullshit [I]will[/I] cause a war. Big or small, there will be one. Dumb me all you want, but you're just trying to feel secure that "oh we wont have a war he wont risk it!" or some shit.

[QUOTE=Tmaxx;44573442]I hope everyone understands that all of this bullshit [I]will[/I] cause a war. Big or small, there will be one. Dumb me all you want, but you're just trying to feel secure that "oh we wont have a war he wont risk it!" or some shit.[/QUOTE] Not really.

[QUOTE=IGotWorms;44573385]Do you actually live in Russia? I've heard that if you get caught talking like that you could get a visit from the Russian gestapo or a life-time membership in one of Putin's gula-I mean happy fun spa exercise camps.[/QUOTE] You can thank the american media for that. Russia is nothing like that. The worst thing about Russia is the state-sanctioned homophobia, apart from that it's not much worse than the US or any other western country

[QUOTE=Laserbeams;44573489]You can thank the american media for that. Russia is nothing like that. The worst thing about Russia is the state-sanctioned homophobia, apart from that it's not much worse than the US or any other western country[/QUOTE] Oh so it's just a goof that Russia's prisoner population is second largest in the world, just barely behind the US despite the fact the US has roughly triple the population of Russia? And all the first hand accounts of people who suffered through Russia's labor camps? The fact that anyone who dares to question Putin's rule gets thrown in jail as a political prisoner, even Garry Kasparov, one of the best and most famous chess players in the world? Or that they sentenced members of the band Pussy Riot to two years in jail on bullshit charges? Or the fact that freedom of speech doesn't exist in Russia? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not even mentioning all the shit Russia is up to right now. Was all that "manufactured" by the American media?

[QUOTE=Bazsil;44573420]...but we promise not to do it again guys! honestly, just after we finish ukraine it'll be cool[/QUOTE] and then putin becomes hitler V2.0

[QUOTE=IGotWorms;44574002]Oh so it's just a goof that Russia's prisoner population is second largest in the world, just barely behind the US despite the fact the US has roughly triple the population of Russia? And all the first hand accounts of people who suffered through Russia's labor camps? The fact that anyone who dares to question Putin's rule gets thrown in jail as a political prisoner, even Garry Kasparov, one of the best and most famous chess players in the world? Or that they sentenced members of the band Pussy Riot to two years in jail on bullshit charges? Or the fact that freedom of speech doesn't exist in Russia? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not even mentioning all the shit Russia is up to right now. Was all that "manufactured" by the American media?[/QUOTE] Russia certainly isn't as bad as it is said. It isn't as downright autocratic as the media would like you to think. It isn't exactly free, but it seems to me like your really only at risk if you wield some kind of political power, regardless of how small. I mean, our good friend gudman has slammed his government but nobody has battered down his door. And why are you chewing out Laserbeams. He's a goddamn Ukrainian. He would be the first to speak about the evils of the Russian government if they really existed. In fact, he has, as has gudman. They aren't the Soviet Union anymore, no matter how much you want them to be. Does that mean they are harmless? Hell no. Does it mean they never do anything like that? Also no. But you can't be brainwashed into believing they are a horrible, KGB-style "speak bad about the glorious regime and we murder you" police state. And didn't you ever think that maybe, just [I]maybe[/I] most of the prisoners are justified? Russia has some pretty high crime rates, and a lot of that has to do with some of the economic turmoil they have faced since the fall of the USSR. Poverty usually leads to crime.

[QUOTE=IGotWorms;44574002]Oh so it's just a goof that Russia's prisoner population is second largest in the world, just barely behind the US despite the fact the US has roughly triple the population of Russia? And all the first hand accounts of people who suffered through Russia's labor camps? The fact that anyone who dares to question Putin's rule gets thrown in jail as a political prisoner, even Garry Kasparov, one of the best and most famous chess players in the world? Or that they sentenced members of the band Pussy Riot to two years in jail on bullshit charges? Or the fact that freedom of speech doesn't exist in Russia? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Not even mentioning all the shit Russia is up to right now. Was all that "manufactured" by the American media?[/QUOTE] Don't get me started on all the things that are wrong with the western world right now. Everyone has their problems, not only Russia

it's like hitler saying two weeks after his false flag attacks on the polish border "oh yeah those were my guys" while his troops chill in warsaw

[QUOTE=Melnek;44573456]Not really.[/QUOTE] Well as someone who was recently in training for the United States Navy I can tell you that made quite a deal about the possibility of us going to war with Russia over Ukraine. Now whether that was a motivational tool or an actual warning is up to interpretation at this time.

[QUOTE=BananaFoam;44574241] They aren't the Soviet Union anymore, no matter how much you want them to be. Does that mean they are harmless? Hell no. Does it mean they never do anything like that? Also no. But you can't be brainwashed into believing they are a horrible, KGB-style "speak bad about the glorious regime and we murder you" police state. .[/QUOTE] Maybe "they" aren't the Soviet Union anymore and maybe "they" aren't jack booted KGB thugs but...someone needs to let Putin in on that fact too.

[QUOTE=spiritlol;44574356]Well as someone who was recently in training for the United States Navy I can tell you that made quite a deal about the possibility of us going to war with Russia over Ukraine. Now whether that was a motivational tool or an actual warning is up to interpretation at this time.[/QUOTE] Yes. The US is secretly preparing for the possibility of a war with Russia. You totally didn't misinterpret whatever it is they told you in training.

[QUOTE=Melnek;44574436]Yes. The US is secretly preparing for the possibility of a war with Russia. You totally didn't misinterpret whatever it is they told you in training.[/QUOTE] What secret? The US military planning and being prepared for contingencies abroad? Not exactly a secret. More like common sense, especially for the 2nd largest military in the world that actually gives a shit about the rest of the world.

[QUOTE=IGotWorms;44574416]Maybe "they" aren't the Soviet Union anymore and maybe "they" aren't jack booted KGB thugs but...someone needs to let Putin in on that fact too.[/QUOTE] Every critique you have of Russia is true, it's just blown out of proportion. Russia isn't a dictatorship, but it isn't a democracy either. It's an authoritarian state but it doesn't rule the people with an iron-fist, it continues to thrive because most of the population is naturally conservative and leans towards authoritarianism itself. It has less to do with brain-washing and more to do with the general sense of desperation and Soviet nostalgia that is still plaguing the Russian people ever since the end of the Cold War. The point the person above made is entirely true as well, Western media is clever because contrary to Russian media, it doesn't make things up out of thin air or blatantly publish propaganda. What it does instead is take existing truthful information, exaggerate/decontextualize it, and then publish it while maintaining the 'neutral yet disapproving' facade. It has succeeded in painting a picture of Putin as a ruthless journalist-killing, comic-book dictator, and figured there's no point stopping there - so then they tried to blame Putin for trying to re-invent a modern day Soviet Union. Even though no evidence were presented to support such an accusation - it was taken as truth regardless, because Putin is already seen as part of the 'axis of evil'. Therefore everything he does is suspicious and most likely evil in one way or another. It is basically like a very clever "anti-cult of personality" centered around vilification.

Well, when you get thrown in prison for opposing Putin in a "free" election and when Russia has a law that to be eligible you must assemble in an officially recognized hall but suddenly NO ONE can let you use any officially recognized hall and the only reason you're still alive or not imprisoned in a labor camp for the rest of your life is because you got an iota of leniency for being a worldwide celebrity and national icon, then yeah...it's a complete dictatorship. I'm not saying you may or may not have some valid points but Putin's past and current actions makes it pretty easy for the media to paint him as a villain. They say everyone loves to hate a good villain but I don't. This shit is fucked up. This isn't a new game for Putin either. It's practically a repeat of Georgia. And a year after hostilities ended there that Putin started that he even bragged about provoking, Putin still had Russian military snipers killing Georgian border guards. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with this guy?

It's really pathetic that groups like the Communist party of Australia and the IYSSE support Russia's stance on Ukraine as a 'fight against fascism', while Putin and the Russian government are literally being fascist about the issue.