[video=youtube;bVxVY1sVOac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVxVY1sVOac[/video]
You will probably be surprised in how much you agree with him, he starts talking at 6:00. Before that he cover this left vs right-wing protest/counter-protest.
Challenge yourself and watch the video, even though you think you will hate it.
Quote from the video: "The people who need to hear this message aren't gonna hear it, they are just gonna look at the thumbnail and say he's talking about something that people on the right are interested in, therefore he must be right-wing and I don't even want to watch it."
Edit: Just watch from 11:50 and a minute forward, then you can hate the video however much you want.
I really do hope people watch this. I feel that often I discuss with people on these rallies/protests who only take snippets or surface level headlines as their knowledge on the topic.
Tim Pool really does a good job just letting people observe for themselves, and then offering his own commentary that you are free to ignore.
you should not have expected fp to actually watch this video rather than rate it dumb and ignore it. especially in the past 6 months the people here have gone into m a x i m u m o v e r d r i v e on shutting away anything that doesn't appear tilted towards the center or center left
It's a shame that it's common thing, that people rather shut themselves in a bubble and feel good than face other perspectives. In this case, perspectives they imagine being much worse than they really are. You can't blame Trump people for being close-minded, if you're not even going to reach out this tiny little bit yourselves. You bear as much responsibility yourselves if the conversion fails and we take several steps back as a result.
[QUOTE=Tudd;52342417]
Tim Pool really does a good job just letting people observe for themselves, and then offering his own commentary that you are[b] free to ignore.[/b][/QUOTE]
its a 20 minute video and 15 minutes of it are him, poorly framed and talking to the camera and like, no offence to the dude but his stories aren't really that interesting. They're just "Hey I went to this place and this guy said this to me and I said "woah man haha" and I just want everyone to get along you know" but stretched over a 20 minute long video
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
like he does some pretty interesting videos but the majority of his videos are mundane and boring as fuck
[QUOTE=HAKKAR!!!;52344032]its a 20 minute video and 15 minutes of it are him, poorly framed and talking to the camera and like, no offence to the dude but his stories aren't really that interesting. They're just "Hey I went to this place and this guy said this to me and I said "woah man haha" and I just want everyone to get along you know" but stretched over a 20 minute long video
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
like he does some pretty interesting videos but the majority of his videos are mundane and boring as fuck[/QUOTE]
Should we dismiss him simply because he's booring and makes a bit too long videos? He talks about legitimate issues and the current state of politics does nothing but keeping fighting and anger alive. Does he have a point or is the status quo preferable?
[QUOTE=RB33;52344019]It's a shame that it's common thing, that people rather shut themselves in a bubble and feel good than face other perspectives.[/QUOTE]
This is genuinely one of my favorite posts on FP, thank you for this.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52344159]Remember despite being founded in the UK, fp is largely an american forum. For Americans the "right" is the GoP who has;
1. Elected an openly racist and xenophobic, treasonous, authoritarian, climate change denying president not even remotely qualified for his job. You could go on for hours about this tbh.
2. strangled and blocked basic services like healthcare, education, protection of the environment etc causing great losses to both american lives and quality of life.
3. Used handicaps like the EC to gain control of the executive branch without popular consent.
Being a Canadian it's easy to just look at people shitting on the right on FP and go "wow you guys are unfair" not having to deal with the life dictating fallout of the destructively fringe far right agenda that's ruled the party. Imagine having to create a massive student debt bubble just so people can have higher education, imagine having to pay hundreds for a medication selling for a few tens in another country or just resigning yourself to death because you can't afford a treatment, imagine climate change being treated as some sort of fantasy. Mix that all up and imagine powerful politicians lie through their teeth "this is actually good" and millions of Americans just swallow some part or all of it.
so no the right deserves it lol and honestly having paid close attention during the election FP was pretty kind to politicians broke rank from the GoP and opposed Trump and Gary Johnson has a small following here too.[/QUOTE]
You missed the whole gerrymandering thing that the GoP did as well, which is just about as bad as it can get imo since it removes much of the power of democracy from large swathes of our population
[QUOTE=Raidyr;52344175]This is genuinely one of my favorite posts on FP, thank you for this.[/QUOTE]
Really, you must have low standards or strange sense of humor.
For you others, the video isn't right-wing, Tim is a moderate. His alt-right viewers claim he's too liberal all the time, at the same time the left call him a fascist for daring to interview right-wingers. He can't win either way, apparently.
[QUOTE=RB33;52344353]Really, you must have low standards or strange sense of humor.[/QUOTE]
Bit of both probably.
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52344159]Remember despite being founded in the UK, fp is largely an american forum. For Americans the "right" is the GoP who has;
1. Elected an openly racist and xenophobic, treasonous, authoritarian, climate change denying president not even remotely qualified for his job. You could go on for hours about this tbh.
2. strangled and blocked basic services like healthcare, education, protection of the environment etc causing great losses to both american lives and quality of life.
3. Used handicaps like the EC to gain control of the executive branch without popular consent.
Being a Canadian it's easy to just look at people shitting on the right on FP and go "wow you guys are unfair" not having to deal with the life dictating fallout of the destructively fringe far right agenda that's ruled the party. Imagine having to create a massive student debt bubble just so people can have higher education, imagine having to pay hundreds for a medication selling for a few tens in another country or just resigning yourself to death because you can't afford a treatment, imagine climate change being treated as some sort of fantasy. Mix that all up and imagine powerful politicians lie through their teeth "this is actually good" and millions of Americans just swallow some part or all of it.
so no the right deserves it lol and honestly having paid close attention during the election FP was pretty kind to politicians broke rank from the GoP and opposed Trump and Gary Johnson has a small following here too.[/QUOTE]
just because you are upset at the current state of things does not make shutting down ideas that don't adhere to your preferred train of thought a healthy thing to do.
this thread is a perfect example of why doing that is a mistake. the video is generally being ignored and discredited because people think it looks like some right-wing propaganda, which it isn't.
and in a thread about canada's new conservative party leader there were several posts from american users that were cheap shots at conservatives, despite canadian conservatives being relatively much less right-wing than republicans and trump. they had wanted to discredit conservatives somehow regardless of the content of the article.
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
so what the heck my guy?
"We don't want the Code of Hammurabi!"
"Okay? Nobody is trying to bring it b-"
"Wtf! Why are you trying to bring back Hammurabi's Code!"
I'm not interested in watching 15 minutes of some guy talking calmly and reasonably about his experience at a protest.. Which is why I'm just going to watch the 6 minutes of raw protest footage and close the tab like a reasonable person. The protest footage was really nice and if anything I just learned that everyone on both sides is just awful. The anti-Sharia people were unsurprisingly not even talking about Sharia Law but "rapefugees" and how Muslims rape children every day.. And the kid in the black mask screaming "TIM POOL GIVES A PLATFORM FOR FASCISTS" was just sad to watch.
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;52345140]just because you are upset at the current state of things does not make shutting down ideas that don't adhere to your preferred train of thought a healthy thing to do.
this thread is a perfect example of why doing that is a mistake. the video is generally being ignored and discredited because people think it looks like some right-wing propaganda, which it isn't.
and in a thread about canada's new conservative party leader there were several posts from american users that were cheap shots at conservatives, despite canadian conservatives being relatively much less right-wing than republicans and trump. they had wanted to discredit conservatives somehow regardless of the content of the article.
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
so what the heck my guy?[/QUOTE]
maybe people are ignoring it as right wing propoganda because people like Tudd post videos of literal right wing propoganda and everybody is sick of it
i see hardcore left wing shit get dumbed too, people just dont want to watch some dude talking in to a camera about shit that they're probably sick of hearing about
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
tl;dr people arent ignoring the video because its a hardcore left wing echo chamber theyre ignoring it because it looks boring as fuck and for all for all intents and purposes is pretty dull
American politics are so absolutely fucked that political discourse is reduced to it's minimum stupidity denominator: everything is reduced to simply being left or right. Thus, you must either be aligned with the American right, which is far from center, or be a liberal, those are your two options. Never mind that American conservatives routinely push nonsensical, absurd policies such as ignoring climate change or deregulating Wall Street, cutting taxes for the rich and removing free healthcare, it's always "but the liberals!".
And you know what? I'm sick of right wing posters in FP routinely whining about being "suppressed" or "attacked" like the snowflakes they so decry. You're being called out because your ideas are shit and fall apart under scrutiny, not just because we stand on the opposite side. Start doing better than this and maybe you'll stop being mocked.
[QUOTE=tehMuffinMan;52343840]you should not have expected fp to actually watch this video rather than rate it dumb and ignore it. especially in the past 6 months the people here have gone into m a x i m u m o v e r d r i v e on shutting away anything that doesn't appear tilted towards the center or center left[/QUOTE]
"Maximum overdrive"
*posts this before literally anyone complains about the video*
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
"listen here pal you either watch my shit video or you're shutting down my viewpoints. you are not allowed to dislike things in MY town, fucker"
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52345593]American politics are so absolutely fucked that political discourse is reduced to it's minimum stupidity denominator: everything is reduced to simply being left or right. Thus, you must either be aligned with the American right, which is far from center, or be a liberal, those are your two options. Never mind that American conservatives routinely push nonsensical, absurd policies such as ignoring climate change or deregulating Wall Street, cutting taxes for the rich and removing free healthcare, it's always "but the liberals!".
And you know what? I'm sick of right wing posters in FP routinely whining about being "suppressed" or "attacked" like the snowflakes they so decry. You're being called out because your ideas are shit and fall apart under scrutiny, not just because we stand on the opposite side. Start doing better than this and maybe you'll stop being mocked.[/QUOTE]
This is so sad to see, this isn't even about the right-wing is bad. The video is about these stupid political fights to begin with, they are not productive and only pushes the other side further away.
Do me a favour and start watching at 11:50 and watch a minute forward. Do that before you continue bashing the right as usual.
[QUOTE=RB33;52347061]This is so sad to see, this isn't even about the right-wing is bad. The video is about these stupid political fights to begin with, they are not productive and only pushes the other side further away.
Do me a favour and start watching at 11:50 and watch a minute forward. Do that before you continue bashing the right as usual.[/QUOTE]
I'm not bashing the right, you, and other right wing posters keep trying to pass Tim Pool as somehow not right wing; despite him repeating talking points from right wing sources, espousing right wing views, echoing and interviewing right wing commentators, and adopting the same us vs. them rhetoric of the American right. Other than him saying he's not right wing, there isn't any merit to the notion that Tim Pool is unbiased, no matter how many times you and Tudd are going to continue saying otherwise.
Clashes happen because of dishonesty, and because of the highly combative discourse of the new American right, it's always been this way, and it's nearly exclusively an American phenomenon as only few other countries have conservative parties as morally corrupt and intellectually insulting as the Republican party and the alt-right.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52347134]I'm not bashing the right, you, and other right wing posters keep trying to pass Tim Pool as somehow not right wing; despite him repeating talking points from right wing sources, espousing right wing views, echoing and interviewing right wing commentators, and adopting the same us vs. them rhetoric of the American right. Other than him saying he's not right wing, there isn't any merit to the notion that Tim Pool is unbiased, no matter how many times you and Tudd are going to continue saying otherwise.
Clashes happen because of dishonesty, and because of the highly combative discourse of the new American right, it's always been this way, and it's nearly exclusively an American phenomenon as only few other countries have conservative parties as morally corrupt and intellectually insulting as the Republican party and the alt-right.[/QUOTE]
I'm not right-wing. Prove to me that Tim is right-wing, show me right-wing policies he agree with. Interviewing the right-wing doesn't make you right-wing, as interviewing a Soviet official wouldn't have made you a Commie.
Antifa have no responsibility when they tend to be more violent than the right all the time? They're giving the left a bad name.
[QUOTE=RB33;52347173]I'm not right-wing. Prove to me that Tim is right-wing, show me right-wing policies he agree with. Interviewing the right-wing doesn't make you right-wing, as interviewing a Soviet official wouldn't have made you a Commie.
Antifa have no responsibility when they tend to be more violent than the right all the time? They're giving the left a bad name.[/QUOTE]
Reducing the left to these caricatures straight from college is his modus operandi, it makes it easier to discredit a whole spectrum of ideas. He deliberately dilutes through editing and by carefully extrapolating the worst he could find at the counter-protest, with the person with the mildest opinions at the protest, just as he did in the first couple of minutes. That's par on the course for any right-wing pundit so I don't see how he could possibly make his bias more obvious.
I have never demonstrated any support for Antifa and I've been outspoken in my criticism on outrage culture (which I've also mentioned, transcends party lines), which Tim Pool also covertly inflames by trying really hard to appear as anything but a right wing talking head, of which Youtube seems to be absolutely fucking teeming with.
He is the easy way to try and appear moderate, even if he falls apart under scrutiny, which is why you and Tudd love to post his videos, it's the illusion of objectivity.
I'm gonna cross post a question I have along as I think it fits here.
[QUOTE=My Question;52347258]I have a question, why is it that people charge blindly into a blob such as Islam instead of an arguably more justified pinpoint of contention in Wahhabi and Salafi Islam, ISIL as a volatile wave of war and abuse, or matters of Saudi Arabia's human right abuses and corruption? There needs to be better education of what truly is a force to focus on instead of fighting a blob that holds many innocents, possible allies in working to solve layered issues, and generations who are the primary victims of such conflicts.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52347244]Reducing the left to these caricatures straight from college is his modus operandi, it makes it easier to discredit a whole spectrum of ideas. He deliberately dilutes through editing and by carefully extrapolating the worst he could find at the counter-protest, with the person with the mildest opinions at the protest, just as he did in the first couple of minutes. That's par on the course for any right-wing pundit so I don't see how he could possibly make his bias more obvious.
I have never demonstrated any support for Antifa and I've been outspoken in my criticism on outrage culture (which I've also mentioned, transcends party lines), which Tim Pool also covertly inflames by trying really hard to appear as anything but a right wing talking head, of which Youtube seems to be absolutely fucking teeming with.
He is the easy way to try and appear moderate, even if he falls apart under scrutiny, which is why you and Tudd love to post his videos, it's the illusion of objectivity.[/QUOTE]
Actually Here's the issue, The left likes to ignore it's own insane people, and has actually grown to the point where academics are not tolerating diversity of opinion which considers you a racist and/or nazi to where you need beating up. The Scary thing is some Chinease has now considered this Parallel to that thing that happened to them called "The Great Leap Foward" and look it up.
[QUOTE=AnnieOakley;52347271]I'm gonna cross post a question I have along as I think it fits here.[/QUOTE]
Imagine muslims trying to differentiate between Protestant branches of Christianity. It's not something you can expect average people (whether christian or muslim) to understand. Education helps though, the interest for specific branches within other religions remains low though, much easier to generalize.
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52347244]Reducing the left to these caricatures straight from college is his modus operandi, it makes it easier to discredit a whole spectrum of ideas. He deliberately dilutes through editing and by carefully extrapolating the worst he could find at the counter-protest, with the person with the mildest opinions at the protest, just as he did in the first couple of minutes. That's par on the course for any right-wing pundit so I don't see how he could possibly make his bias more obvious.
I have never demonstrated any support for Antifa and I've been outspoken in my criticism on outrage culture (which I've also mentioned, transcends party lines), which Tim Pool also covertly inflames by trying really hard to appear as anything but a right wing talking head, of which Youtube seems to be absolutely fucking teeming with.
He is the easy way to try and appear moderate, even if he falls apart under scrutiny, which is why you and Tudd love to post his videos, it's the illusion of objectivity.[/QUOTE]
I only brought up Antifa as a counter-point since you only brought up the rights part is this conflict.
He does have an unhealthy habit of reducing the left to these activists, meanwhile the only right-wing he's talking to are only the "alt-right" people. He simplifies this to only protestors in the streets, not what ordinary people think or how things work in the congress. You're right on that.
He probably have a bias in covering the right-side of things, does that make him politically right-wing though? He barely talks about his own political stances, can you show me what political stances he has that are right-wing? Economics, social policies, cultural and so on.
I'm left-wing, but i'm still biased to let the right make their voices heard, because I know there are people on the left that would shut them up if they could.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52347318]Actually Here's the issue, The left likes to ignore it's own insane people, and has actually grown to the point where academics are not tolerating diversity of opinion which considers you a racist and/or nazi to where you need beating up. The Scary thing is some Chinease has now considered this Parallel to that thing that happened to them called "The Great Leap Foward" and look it up.[/QUOTE]
I've been tear gassed for standing up against a corrupt, totalitarian, communist regime, don't try to paint me as a tankie. I'm not responsible in any way for the insane views espoused by a vocal minority, I have called them out and will continue to do so but the idea that I'm somehow accountable for what an antifa or a communist does is ridiculous, which is exactly what Tim Pool does to criticize the left.
You're doing the exact same generalization you seem to be criticizing, saying that the left as a whole is somehow responsible for the Great Leap Forward is the same as saying all Muslims are responsible for terrorist attacks because Islamic extremism exists, or that all alt-righters are nazis because a few of them are, etc.
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52347376]I've been tear gassed for standing up against a corrupt, totalitarian, communist regime, don't try to paint me as a tankie. I'm not responsible in any way for the insane views espoused by a vocal minority, I have called them out and will continue to do so but the idea that I'm somehow accountable for what an antifa or a communist does is ridiculous, which is exactly what Tim Pool does to criticize the left.
You're doing the exact same generalization you seem to be criticizing, saying that the left as a whole is somehow responsible for the Great Leap Forward is the same as saying all Muslims are responsible for terrorist attacks because Islamic extremism exists, or that all alt-righters are nazis because a few of them are, etc.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52347318]Actually Here's the issue, [B]The left likes to ignore it's own insane people,[/B] and has actually grown to the point where academics are not tolerating diversity of opinion which considers you a racist and/or nazi to where you need beating up. The Scary thing is some Chinease has now considered this Parallel to that thing that happened to them called "The Great Leap Foward" and look it up.[/QUOTE]
I'm not fucking generalizing, for years people on this forums keep saying "oh it's an isolated incident, nothing to worry about", Then Evergreen Happened, and then finally you guys may have realized we have a problem, but then it's too late because the alt-right happened. You put bad ideas out in the open to debate, not if you put out a bad idea you are beaten with a baseball bat.
is this the same snowflake who thought the swedish police were trying to stop him from broadcasting an area, when they were just saying it wasn't safe, or am I getting him confused
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52347416]I'm not fucking generalizing[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52347416]you guys[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52347416]You put bad ideas out in the open to debate, not if you put out a bad idea you are beaten with a baseball bat.[/QUOTE]
Read what you're typing. Why am I in any way responsible for whatever happened in Evergreen?
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;52347439]is this the same snowflake who thought the swedish police were trying to stop him from broadcasting an area, when they were just saying it wasn't safe, or am I getting him confused[/QUOTE]
Yes, that was him. Do you think that reporters should stay in danger, when police advise against it?
[editline]12th June 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52347441]Read what you're typing. Why am I in any way responsible for whatever happened in Evergreen?[/QUOTE]
Did you have a response to this?
[QUOTE=RB33;52347335]He probably have a bias in covering the right-side of things, does that make him politically right-wing though? He barely talks about his own political stances, can you show me what political stances he has that are right-wing? Economics, social policies, cultural and so on.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Big Bang;52347441]Read what you're typing. Why am I in any way responsible for whatever happened in Evergreen?[/QUOTE]
The fact that mostly no one here thought it was a good idea to nip this in the bud is what I'm getting at, This shouldn't have been allowed to happen at all.
[QUOTE=RB33;52347335]
I only brought up Antifa as a counter-point since you only brought up the rights part is this conflict.
He does have an unhealthy habit of reducing the left to these activists, meanwhile the only right-wing he's talking to are only the "alt-right" people. He simplifies this to only protestors in the streets, not what ordinary people think or how things work in the congress. You're right on that.
He probably have a bias in covering the right-side of things, does that make him politically right-wing though? He barely talks about his own political stances, can you show me what political stances he has that are right-wing? Economics, social policies, cultural and so on.
I'm left-wing, but i'm still biased to let the right make their voices heard, because I know there are people on the left that would shut them up if they could.[/QUOTE]
Saying "I'm left-wing" doesn't magically make you left-wing. I have read your posts and opinions on several different topics and I can tell you right now you're not left-wing. As for Tim Pool, his coverage of Sweden for one was extremely dishonest and rife with edited comments that only served as fuel for right wing pundits that support Trump's idea that Sweden is a hellhole.
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52347457]The fact that mostly no one here thought it was a good idea to nip this in the bud is what I'm getting at, This shouldn't have been allowed to happen at all.[/QUOTE]
What the fuck are you talking about? How would anyone here have the ability to prevent what happened in Evergreen College? Are you accusing me of thoughtcrime?
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