Terrifying. Easy to understand why many troops had said that the noise of incoming shells was the scariest sound they'd ever heard.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL1DkrYL70s&feature=youtu.be[/media]
I think that vibrating sound is shrapnel flying through the air and spinning so fast it makes a sound.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52997071]I think that vibrating sound is shrapnel flying through the air and spinning so fast it makes a sound.[/QUOTE]
that's the same sound you hear if a tumbling bullet flies nearby.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52997071]I think that vibrating sound is shrapnel flying through the air and spinning so fast it makes a sound.[/QUOTE]
It's not shrapnel, it's the cannon ball itself.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvaCjES1VdA[/media]
[quote]After visiting the battle of Gettysburg, I attempted to recreate the audio, of what it may of sounded like for the 25,000 Union Soldiers, who were shelled by the Confederate cannon barrage. This barrage occurred for two hours preceeding Pickett’s Charge. This was the worlds largest artillery barrage until WWI, 60 years later.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52997071]I think that vibrating sound is shrapnel flying through the air and spinning so fast it makes a sound.[/QUOTE]
Most of the cannonballs at this time were still pure round shot, essentially just solid balls of lead. Most of the damage done by a cannon was done by the impact of the shot itself, as they tended to break into solid chunks rather than small pieces of shrapnel. Hollow shells were usually filled with explosives, and weren't used in cannons so often as they were in howitzers and mortars.
That being said, I've seen what grapeshot can do to a piece of drywall, and it's pretty nasty.
[QUOTE=L'Citizen;52997268]Most of the cannonballs at this time were still pure round shot, essentially just solid balls of lead. Most of the damage done by a cannon was done by the impact of the shot itself, as they tended to break into solid chunks rather than small pieces of shrapnel. Hollow shells were usually filled with explosives, and weren't used in cannons so often as they were in howitzers and mortars.
That being said, I've seen what grapeshot can do to a piece of drywall, and it's pretty nasty.[/QUOTE]
Reminds me of this scene(2:53):
[video=youtube;IFpFHj4XfFg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFpFHj4XfFg[/video]
I do have to wonder, would it be possible for a Civil War-era cannon to knock out modern military vehicles?
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52997512]I do have to wonder, would it be possible for a Civil War-era cannon to knock out modern military vehicles?[/QUOTE]
Good question.I think armor piercing rounds are meant to go past armor and then go nuts inside the cabin, HE shell might stand a chance against a lighter armored target, but a cannonball would most likely DOINK itself off the armor and rattle everyone inside, vibrating the vehicle shell
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52997512]I do have to wonder, would it be possible for a Civil War-era cannon to knock out modern military vehicles?[/QUOTE]
Not easily. Being able to hit a moving target would be a massive challenge. Especially if it's the size of a pea at 500 yds.
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52997512]I do have to wonder, would it be possible for a Civil War-era cannon to knock out modern military vehicles?[/QUOTE]
Uneducated guess but I'd say it might fuck the treads up from sheer kinetic energy, but otherwise I'm almost certain any other hit would simply bounce off.
[QUOTE=L'Citizen;52997268]Most of the cannonballs at this time were still pure round shot, essentially just solid balls of lead.[/QUOTE]
Cast iron actually, allows them to bounce far greater as well as being heated red hot for setting ships aflame.
[QUOTE=Orkel;52997245][media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvaCjES1VdA[/media][/QUOTE]
did this make anyone else's ears actually start hurting, cuz mine definitely got uncomfortable
I can't imagine that shit at full volume
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52997512]I do have to wonder, would it be possible for a Civil War-era cannon to knock out modern military vehicles?[/QUOTE]
No, because it is nearly the antithesis of how most modern anti-tank rounds work. HEAT (high-explosive-anti-tank), HESH (high-explosive-squash-head), and APFSDS (armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot) rounds are what's used.
APFSDS is probably the go-to choice against armor, with depleted uranium used for the penetrator rod since it gives it more density (higher kinetic energy) and is pyphoric, so it'll likely cause flammable shards to go pinging around inside the vehicle when it penetrates
[t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/TRESPI-5_APFSDS.PNG[/t]
HEAT is more like APFSDS than HESH is. HEAT detonates initially a bit before it impacts the armor, creating a plasma jet that melts a hole in the armor then sets the primary explosion off. These can cause intense spalling, and are only defeated by things like reactive armor that "explode" back at the incoming shell to stop it (and for that reason, they're single use). HEAT is mostly used against light or medium-armored vehicles without reactive armor, where it can do the most damage. Good video on these two types here: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHbf-Eb3xak[/url]
HESH is the closest somewhat modern analogue to a cannon ball, I guess. Previously solid-core AP shells were common in WW2, but they didn't have the best post-penetration damage effects (which is why we went to APHE, then eventually things like HEAT rounds). HESH rounds impact the target armor, have a head of explosive that squashes slightly to contact the armor better, then explodes. It doesn't penetrate nearly as well as the other types, but it tends to carry more explosive charge. Downside is how much slower it fires - some APFSDS rounds go about 2000m/s but HESH is usually less than half that.
HESH is commonly used in demolition duties now, iirc, and is a good omni-purpose round I think but isn't an anti-tank round.
A modern cannonball [I]could[/I] potentially disable a tank by damaging the wheels (unlikely it can really do much to the track, unless it hits head-on). That or it could maybe concuss the crew, but most modern tanks have thick composite armor that will shrug off kinetic impacts with ease. Things like Chobham armor are even extremely resistant to HEAT rounds, so a cannonball would "doink" off and annoy the crew at worst, I bet. Regardless, our modern anti-tank rounds are quite a bit fancier than simple slugs of kinetic energy with a touch of explosive, which is what cannonballs effectively are :v:
[I]this post sponsored by fucking slow profiling runs on my work software[/I]
Theres also like 1 vid of airburst mortar fire.
[video=youtube;E2l9NU2a-XY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2l9NU2a-XY[/video]
Also huge fuckin seige mortar.
[video=youtube;ykUUhS4pIiA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykUUhS4pIiA[/video]
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52997512]I do have to wonder, would it be possible for a Civil War-era cannon to knock out modern military vehicles?[/QUOTE]
if you can make the shot they'll take out some light aircraft and will put a serious hurt on a technical (if you can consider those military vehicles).
a shot to the drivetrain of a tank might immobilize it but it won't put it out of comission.
the big problem is actually landing the shot. cannons aren't designed for modern warfare.
[QUOTE=The Vman;52997193]It's not shrapnel, it's the cannon ball itself.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but it happens after it hits.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;52998998]Yeah, but it happens after it hits.[/QUOTE]
Two things: the cannon ball travels faster than the speed of sound, so the ball hitting will not kill the sound immediately, and secondly, these cannon balls often bounced, especially at a shallow angle.
Ricochet fire was a common tactic in many countries, firing a ball just over the walls of a fort at a low angle would cause it to strike the inside opposite wall and bounce all over inside the fort causing havoc, in land battles a skipping ball would stay at or below head height with a column of soldiers essentially guaranteeing a hit, even used in naval battles they could skip the ball across the water much like a skipping stone. Many forts from the 16th to 19th century took ricochet fire into consideration and were often star shaped to deflect ricochet fire away.
[QUOTE=paindoc;52998145]No, because it is nearly the antithesis of how most modern anti-tank rounds work. HEAT (high-explosive-anti-tank), HESH (high-explosive-squash-head), and APFSDS (armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding-sabot) rounds are what's used.
APFSDS is probably the go-to choice against armor, with depleted uranium used for the penetrator rod since it gives it more density (higher kinetic energy) and is pyphoric, so it'll likely cause flammable shards to go pinging around inside the vehicle when it penetrates
[t]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4b/TRESPI-5_APFSDS.PNG[/t]
HEAT is more like APFSDS than HESH is. HEAT detonates initially a bit before it impacts the armor, creating a plasma jet that melts a hole in the armor then sets the primary explosion off. These can cause intense spalling, and are only defeated by things like reactive armor that "explode" back at the incoming shell to stop it (and for that reason, they're single use). HEAT is mostly used against light or medium-armored vehicles without reactive armor, where it can do the most damage. Good video on these two types here: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHbf-Eb3xak[/url]
HESH is the closest somewhat modern analogue to a cannon ball, I guess. Previously solid-core AP shells were common in WW2, but they didn't have the best post-penetration damage effects (which is why we went to APHE, then eventually things like HEAT rounds). HESH rounds impact the target armor, have a head of explosive that squashes slightly to contact the armor better, then explodes. It doesn't penetrate nearly as well as the other types, but it tends to carry more explosive charge. Downside is how much slower it fires - some APFSDS rounds go about 2000m/s but HESH is usually less than half that.
HESH is commonly used in demolition duties now, iirc, and is a good omni-purpose round I think but isn't an anti-tank round.
A modern cannonball [I]could[/I] potentially disable a tank by damaging the wheels (unlikely it can really do much to the track, unless it hits head-on). That or it could maybe concuss the crew, but most modern tanks have thick composite armor that will shrug off kinetic impacts with ease. Things like Chobham armor are even extremely resistant to HEAT rounds, so a cannonball would "doink" off and annoy the crew at worst, I bet. Regardless, our modern anti-tank rounds are quite a bit fancier than simple slugs of kinetic energy with a touch of explosive, which is what cannonballs effectively are :v:
[I]this post sponsored by fucking slow profiling runs on my work software[/I][/QUOTE]
you got some incorrect info there, contrary to popular belief HEAT doesn't generate a plasma jet, and it doesn't detonate before it impacts, they have impact fuzes and there's a hollow section at the front to allow the shaped explosive form. it does however form a jet, it's superplastic copper in most cases, not plasma. HEAT is also generally used against all targets, as it's penetration capabilities are rather massive, though it is easily defeated by ERA as you mentioned, though spaced armor also works as it causes the jet to form before the main armor, thus the focused point of the shaped explosion happens before the main armor section, and greatly reduces the effective penetration. To put it simply, the copper lining inside the shell is a lens of sorts, consider it like a normal lens that focuses light, but instead of light, it itself is focused by the explosive force, causing it to deform rapidly and shaping up into a "slug" of sorts which is the main penetrating force of the shell. This "slug" is the thing that penetrates through the armor, and as it's very high temperature, and very fast, it spalls the armor on exiting into the fighting compartment, and it's followed by a jet of metal fragments and the combusting gases from the explosion.
Also, HESH bases it's effectiveness on armored targets with armor spalling, while it does not usually penetrate the armor, the squashed head detonating spalls the armor plate inside, causing the fighting compartment to be showered in flecks of armor breaking off from the inside side of the armor. This is also easily protected against with antispall lining.
Otherwise though, stellar post.
[QUOTE=paindoc;52998145]big fat post about ammo[/QUOTE]
Here's a BIG fat picture that TL;DR's pretty well
[url]https://s15.postimg.org/ltib8n3p7/INFOGRAMED.jpg[/url]
[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52997512]I do have to wonder, would it be possible for a Civil War-era cannon to knock out modern military vehicles?[/QUOTE]
Not really, at least for a modern military vehicle you'd see on the front lines.
* Muzzle velocity is too low to reach out far enough. Typical civil war cannon was good to maybe 250 yards at most.
* Armor piercing capacity is pretty low. Even an up-armored humvee would stop ye olde cannon shot. Only things at any real risk are totally unarmored soft skin vehicles, like dueces and oshkoshes, and any main battle tank operated...well, since the later stages of World War Two would be more or less totally impervious to it. You might could penetrate the side or rear armor of, say, an early Panzer III, or the arse end of an M3 Lee/M4 Sherman, but that's about as new as it gets. A modern tank with composite armor is so sturdy that the crew might not even know they were hit by hostile fire! Might just think they kicked a rock up or something.
* Accuracy is god awful. You'd struggle to hit a humvee from more than a hundred yards out with one, and any pretense of hitting anything smaller than a building goes right out the window past 250 yards, which is why these things are NFG past that distance.
* ROF is atrocious.
* Takes too long to aim these things. You aim them at static locations, takes a good five, ten minutes to set the initial positioning and a good four or five salvos before they're dialed in. And of course, each time you fire the thing, you have to re-aim it, so you never truly get it right on the money. You'd have a tough time hitting a parked fuel truck, nevermind one that's actually operating.
In short, ye olde artillery is barely even a threat for any modern military vehicle that sees front line usage and even the un-armored supply corps would have little trouble avoiding the barrage. You'd have to be lucky to score at hit and, if it's in any way armored, you probably won't do much to it. That being said, if you managed to hit a fully loaded fuel or munitions truck in the cargo area with an exploding shell, you'd leave a crater behind...
I really don't think a humvee would survive a blow from a 32 pounder (standard naval gun). Even a 12pdr field gun could probably knock one out of commission.
For lightly armored vehicles it could have enough power in it to just crush through, but I would say for anything armored for 14.5 and above the worst it could do is put a big dent in it. An armored HMMWV? Probably would end up caving in the door or whatever it hits if it does not go through.
Also I think paradoxically a big round projectile might do more damage to modern tank armor than something like APFSDS even if its chances of ever penetrating a pretty much nil. I dont know the details on how much solid steel is in front of most armor packages but the ceramics in modern tank armor are generally brittle. I would expect to see similar effects to what HESH does.
I cant wait until there is a video of the U.S navy totally destroying a target with its new railguns. I bet it would sound like something out of star wars.
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