DNC Chair Candidate Tom Perez Refuses to Support Ban on Corporate Money and Lobbyists - Polidicks

[IMG]https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2017/01/506029674-1484756228-promo.jpg[/IMG] [Quote]LABOR SECRETARY TOM PEREZ, one of the leading candidates for chair of the Democratic National Committee, has stumbled in recent days when asked about his position on money in politics. Asked at a DNC forum in Phoenix last Saturday whether he will “revive President Obama’s ban on corporate donations to the DNC” and a ban on appointing lobbyists as party leaders, Perez demurred. “It’s actually not that simple a question,” Perez responded, adding that such a move might have “unintended consequences.” Perez argued that such a ban might impact “union members who are lobbyists,” though the question explicitly only addressed corporate lobbyists.[/quote] [URL="https://theintercept.com/2017/01/18/tom-perez-dnc/"]The Intercept[/URL] Whereas Keith Ellison wants to ban this. It obviously shows some Democrats haven't learned their lesson on how the public truly feels.

Why do I suspect the next election is going to go exactly how 2004 went? And that the rest of the world will suffer the consequences?

I feel like the Dems have this mentality of "if it worked in the past, it'll work again!!!!" which is why they refuse to fucking change.

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51689974][IMG]https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2017/01/506029674-1484756228-promo.jpg[/IMG] [URL="https://theintercept.com/2017/01/18/tom-perez-dnc/"]The Intercept[/URL] Whereas Keith Ellison wants to ban this. It obviously shows some Democrats haven't learned their lesson on how the public truly feels.[/QUOTE] Can you blame them, given the example set by Trump? You'll have to forgive some confusion about the "keep corporate money out of politics" rhetoric when one of the loudest mouthpieces is a person who is skipping the middleman entirely by appointing those very same corporations into high ranking political positions in his administration. Croney capitalism, crooked money, and shady backroom agreements are problem s throughout our entire political system, not just one team. It needs to be fixed, of course. I'm not excusing it in any way. I just reckon that the narrative that this is somehow a uniquely liberal problem is a bit disingenuous.

There's no way back from here. The American government is corporate run from now on til the country collapses if that ever happens. Trump emboldened the darker elements of politics and they won't back down now. Congratulations.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51690061]There's no way back from here. The American government is corporate run from now on til the country collapses if that ever happens. Trump emboldened the darker elements of politics and they won't back down now. Congratulations.[/QUOTE] So when does violence become a reasonable reaction to this bullshit? It feels like good people have been trying to change the system for years, but being completely unable to due to how the system is RIGGED (see what I did there) against them. Like....I wanna remain optimistic but each year I'm losing more and more hope that we can (peacefully) fix our government.

Do the Republicans have such a requirement in their party? If not I can see why some in the Democrat camp don't want to unilaterally disarm themselves.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;51690061]There's no way back from here. The American government is corporate run from now on til the country collapses if that ever happens. Trump emboldened the darker elements of politics and they won't back down now. Congratulations.[/QUOTE] Do you just enjoy being overly dramatic and flat out wrong or? Trump might be fucking things up big time in some areas but there's literally no reason to believe it's irreversible and the only possible end result now is the destruction of the United States.

if the democratic party wants any serious future, they need to purge neoliberals and corproate puppets ASAP

[QUOTE=Judas;51690179]if the democratic party wants any serious future, they need to purge neoliberals and corproate puppets ASAP[/QUOTE] Being a corporate puppet infinitely worse than any Democrat seemed to work just fine for Trump. I daresay the Democrats have a future with or without it, though I'd prefer them without, naturally.

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;51690105]So when does violence become a reasonable reaction to this bullshit? It feels like good people have been trying to change the system for years, but being completely unable to due to how the system is RIGGED (see what I did there) against them. Like....I wanna remain optimistic but each year I'm losing more and more hope that we can (peacefully) fix our government.[/QUOTE] I see an attempted rebellion going one of two ways: flat out failure, or tearing the country apart in a Syria-like civil war. The likelihood of a quick, easy and successful revolt followed by the rise of a stable and effective democracy is astronomically unlikely. I for one think we should make absolutely every possible attempt at peaceful solutions before even [I]considering[/I] violence. Open warfare is not something to take lightly, and is typically regarded as a last resort with good reason.

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;51690171]Do you just enjoy being overly dramatic and flat out wrong or? Trump might be fucking things up big time in some areas but there's literally no reason to believe it's irreversible and the only possible end result now is the destruction of the United States.[/QUOTE] Climate change cannot be reversed, Supreme Court picks can take half a lifetime to replace, and even the Democrats turn their backs to our wealth inequality. So yes, some things are effectively irreversible. And while he's not "Literally Hitler", his damaging environmental policies will indirectly lead to millions of deaths in the future.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51690034]Can you blame them, given the example set by Trump? You'll have to forgive some confusion about the "keep corporate money out of politics" rhetoric when one of the loudest mouthpieces is a person who is skipping the middleman entirely by appointing those very same corporations into high ranking political positions in his administration. Croney capitalism, crooked money, and shady backroom agreements are problem s throughout our entire political system, not just one team. It needs to be fixed, of course. I'm not excusing it in any way. I just reckon that the narrative that is somehow a uniquely liberal problem is a bit disingenuous.[/QUOTE] This has been a problem way before Trump. I was putting the spotlight on Democrats due to DNC Chair elections in a month, and the most viable candidate wants to ban corporate lobbying and influence to the Democratic party. Small steps.

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;51690105]So when does violence become a reasonable reaction to this bullshit? It feels like good people have been trying to change the system for years, but being completely unable to due to how the system is RIGGED (see what I did there) against them. Like....I wanna remain optimistic but each year I'm losing more and more hope that we can (peacefully) fix our government.[/QUOTE] Violence isn't the answer [I]yet.[/I] We should try any and all peaceful options, up to the point that the government either silences the opposition or suspends elections. At that point there is no peaceful option.

I don't know if he's the most viable canididate, Keith Ellison has gotten a lot of endorsements himself.

[QUOTE=archangel125;51690254]Being a corporate puppet infinitely worse than any Democrat seemed to work just fine for Trump. I daresay the Democrats have a future with or without it, though I'd prefer them without, naturally.[/QUOTE] And with all the corporate endorsements, a moderate number of voters who usually vote dem abstained or went third party this year. Cozying up to business only worked fine because the other candidate was also terrible.

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;51690034]Can you blame them, given the example set by Trump?[/QUOTE] 26 years old and you've already completely forgotten about bill clinton, huh? and that's bare minimum knowledge WITHOUT doing your history homework. c'mon, son. just because trump's corruption is out in the open air doesn't mean american politics haven't been filthy for a very long time. the example was not set by trump. edit: i can't fucking type.

[QUOTE=TheJoey;51690326]26 years old and you've already completely forgotten about bill clinton, huh? and that's bare minimum knowledge WITHOUT doing your history homework. c'mon, son. just because trump's corruption is out in the open air doesn't mean american politics haven't been filthy for a very long time. the example was not set by trump. edit: i can't fucking type.[/QUOTE] Which you would have realized is exactly what I said, had you taken a moment to read the second paragraph of that post before going in for a zinger. Corporate influence does not belong to either party -- it runs throughout the entire system. And in no way am I trying to imply that this is a new thing. Trump's corruption is overt, and extremely hypocritical given his rhetoric during the campaign cycle, but it's not the SOURCE of corporate corruption, just a cancerous mass of it.

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;51690105]So when does violence become a reasonable reaction to this bullshit? It feels like good people have been trying to change the system for years, but being completely unable to due to how the system is RIGGED (see what I did there) against them. Like....I wanna remain optimistic but each year I'm losing more and more hope that we can (peacefully) fix our government.[/QUOTE] We just need a strong enough, charismatic enough leader. And things will get started

[QUOTE=Llamaguy;51689974][IMG]https://prod01-cdn07.cdn.firstlook.org/wp-uploads/sites/1/2017/01/506029674-1484756228-promo.jpg[/IMG] [URL="https://theintercept.com/2017/01/18/tom-perez-dnc/"]The Intercept[/URL] Whereas Keith Ellison wants to ban this. It obviously shows some Democrats haven't learned their lesson on how the public truly feels.[/QUOTE] This dude literally looks like a Thin Man from XCOM

Wish America had a good left party

[QUOTE=L'Citizen;51690312]Violence isn't the answer [I]yet.[/I] We should try any and all peaceful options, up to the point that the government either silences the opposition or suspends elections. At that point there is no peaceful option.[/QUOTE] What will be lost by that point though? That's the problem: if we wait too long, they might be too well-entrenched and too strong for us to defeat them. What happens as the NSA, the CIA, FBI, etc. have their powers expanded and broadened to spy on us, as is currently happening? What happens as these corrupt networks in our government continue to grow and are left untouched? Etc. People will also start to become more and more complacent and apathetic if we aren't careful. "Oh well, this is just how things are. I don't like it, but what can I do? There's no hope. Gotta focus on my own life and not worry about anything outside of it." Complacency and apathy are the worst things for a democracy-- not only when you're trying to run it like normal and when things are actually working like they're supposed to, but also when you're trying to reform it (whether that means peacefully reforming it or using violence) when things aren't working. We're going to have to start seriously considering the alternatives, and we're going to have to start preparing to actually carry out those alternatives. The sooner we start energizing and organizing people for it and the sooner we start preparing, the better of we'll be if/when it happens. We can't run out there [i]right now[/i] though and try to do anything; like Psychokitten pointed out, it's too early for that, and no preparations or organization has been made. Or we can continue to sit around, let ourselves get fucked without mercy, and do nothing. It's whatever.

snip wrong thread

[QUOTE=MissZoey;51689996]I feel like the Dems have this mentality of "if it worked in the past, it'll work again!!!!" which is why they refuse to fucking change.[/QUOTE] If that's the democrats mentality then I guess Republicans are democrats but multiplied by a factor of at least 12.

[QUOTE=F.X Clampazzo;51690680]If that's the democrats mentality then I guess Republicans are democrats but multiplied by a factor of at least 12.[/QUOTE] Republicans are more like "Let's try a bunch of shit that clearly didn't work and has never worked"

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;51690105]So when does violence become a reasonable reaction to this bullshit? It feels like good people have been trying to change the system for years, but being completely unable to due to how the system is RIGGED (see what I did there) against them. Like....I wanna remain optimistic but each year I'm losing more and more hope that we can (peacefully) fix our government.[/QUOTE] Violence isn't the answer tbh. For me personally if it came to that I'd just emmigrate from the US. This dirt isn't worth dying for and plenty of other countries are doing things well enough that I would rather be a productive member of society there. I can guarantee that a good number of people don't think this shithole is worth dying for. This country has done nothing to make me care about it enough to die for it. Shit look at places where civil wars have happened in the last few years. People living in countries where they literally made their own lives as farmers and shit, where their family has collectively built what they have for generations. A lot of these people still got up and said fuck it, this shit ain't worth dying for and fled to refugee camps instead of joining that "glorious people's rebellion."

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;51690263]I see an attempted rebellion going one of two ways: flat out failure, or tearing the country apart in a Syria-like civil war. The likelihood of a quick, easy and successful revolt followed by the rise of a stable and effective democracy is astronomically unlikely. I for one think we should make absolutely every possible attempt at peaceful solutions before even [I]considering[/I] violence. Open warfare is not something to take lightly, and is typically regarded as a last resort with good reason.[/QUOTE] I would prefer it not to come to that and yes we should pursue every peaceful solution we can. But honestly, what are you supposed to do when legendarily thick-headed people refuse to listen to reason? I feel like at this rate, it's going to come down to whose wellbeing you care about, the corporate or the people. I seem to recall someone saying those who make peaceful revolution impossible only make violent revolution inevitable. Moving to another country where I won't get treated like shit would be nice, but I do not have any means of doing so. I have no support or friends abroad that would assist me. And I actually like where I live and I'd prefer not to leave if I don't have to.

[QUOTE=Jetpack Bear;51690493]This dude literally looks like a Thin Man from XCOM[/QUOTE] hahahaha nailed it I felt like I knew this guy from somewhere. Guess that answers it

[QUOTE=Dr. Evilcop;51690171]Do you just enjoy being overly dramatic and flat out wrong or? Trump might be fucking things up big time in some areas but there's literally no reason to believe it's irreversible and the only possible end result now is the destruction of the United States.[/QUOTE] So lets ignore the reality of climate change, automation, or the like Lets just deal with the nature of corporate power, and how once it's there, much like losing a right, you'll never get it back. The situation in the US is very fluid and is more financially influenced than you're giving it credit for. Lobbyism is at it's fullest swing, and that's not a "bad" thing, because it lets other groups like LGBT and what not have a voice on social platforms. But it makes the biggest finanical players more powerful, which they then use to, increase their power. Over, and over, in a feedback loop. Now tell me, how do you get rid of them? And if your answer is the case, why is the US being inundated with corporatism politicians in a time frame that is as sensitive as our current one is, where you'd expect "The little guy" to be running? And no where did I say the US would end. I said if. Maybe I shouldn't have included that because it turned into this, rather than the actual discussion I wanted it to be. I don't think, with, or without Trump, the US would last forever. Everything is going to disappear eventually, saying "if that ever happens" is clearly not what [B]you[/B] are forcing it to mean in this context.

[QUOTE=Govna;51690505]What will be lost by that point though? That's the problem: if we wait too long, they might be too well-entrenched and too strong for us to defeat them. What happens as the NSA, the CIA, FBI, etc. have their powers expanded and broadened to spy on us, as is currently happening? What happens as these corrupt networks in our government continue to grow and are left untouched? Etc. People will also start to become more and more complacent and apathetic if we aren't careful. "Oh well, this is just how things are. I don't like it, but what can I do? There's no hope. Gotta focus on my own life and not worry about anything outside of it." Complacency and apathy are the worst things for a democracy-- not only when you're trying to run it like normal and when things are actually working like they're supposed to, but also when you're trying to reform it (whether that means peacefully reforming it or using violence) when things aren't working. We're going to have to start seriously considering the alternatives, and we're going to have to start preparing to actually carry out those alternatives. The sooner we start energizing and organizing people for it and the sooner we start preparing, the better of we'll be if/when it happens. We can't run out there [I]right now[/I] though and try to do anything; like Psychokitten pointed out, it's too early for that, and no preparations or organization has been made. Or we can continue to sit around, let ourselves get fucked without mercy, and do nothing. It's whatever.[/QUOTE] How about let's cool it with the edge, chief? I'm a leftist through and through and am throroughly disgusted with the state of our politics just as much as you, or anyone else here, but armed revolution? Lol give me a break. You sound just like the reactionaries in 2008 after the "S0ci@l1st" Obama won. The political process [I]still works[/I], but its biggest enemy is uneducated voters and apathetic voters. Turnout in this country is abysmal. Get involved in local politics, join activist groups, protest, debate, perform your duties as a concerned citizen and we [B]can[/B] bring leftist principles into government. We have many obstacles ahead of us, but we are far, far from "VIVA LE REVOLUTION!" (lol revolution, and then what?) The minute you unironically posit political violence as a legitimate tool for us to use moving forward is when you lose all credibility in my eyes. Let's keep the discussion grounded in reality, please.