East Aleppo Offensive Begins - Carpet Bombing w/ Cluster Munitions done by RUAF - Polidicks

[quote]Warplanes launched some of the heaviest air strikes yet on rebel-held areas of Aleppo on Friday after the Russian-backed Syrian army declared an offensive to fully capture Syria's biggest city, killing off any hope of reviving a ceasefire. Residents said the streets were deserted as the 250,000 people still trapped in the besieged opposition-held sector of Aleppo sought shelter from jets. The army said the operation would include a ground attack, and could last "for some time". The rebels and the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights monitoring body described raids by warplanes they said must belong to Russia. Residents also spoke of attacks by helicopters using bombs made from oil drums, a tactic usually attributed to the Syrian army. "Can you hear it? The neighborhood is getting hit right now by missiles. We can hear the planes right now," Mohammad Abu Rajab, a radiologist, told Reuters. "The planes are not leaving the sky, helicopters, barrel bombs, warplanes." The intense bombardment left no doubt that the Syrian government of President Bashar al-Assad and its Russian allies had spurned a plea from U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry to halt flights to resurrect the ceasefire, which lasted a week before collapsing on Monday. A rebel commander said the blasts were the fiercest the city had faced. "I woke up to a powerful earthquake though I was in a place far away from where the missile landed," he said in a voice recording sent to Reuters. His group had "martyrs under the rubble" in three locations. In a late night announcement on Thursday, the Syrian military announced "the start of its operations in the eastern districts of Aleppo", and warned people to stay away from "the headquarters and positions of the armed terrorist gangs". Elaborating on this on Friday, a military source said the offensive would be a "comprehensive one", with a ground assault following air and artillery bombardment. "With respect to the air or artillery strikes, they may continue for some time," it said. There was no immediate comment from the Russian or Syrian militaries detailing Friday's air strikes. The Syrian army's declaration of the offensive coincided with international meetings on Syria in New York, the latest diplomatic efforts officially intended to revive the truce, which was brokered by the United States and Russia. Its collapse, the same fate as all previous efforts to halt a 5-1/2-year-old war that has killed hundreds of thousands of Syrians, has doomed what may be the final bid for a peace breakthrough before President Barack Obama leaves office.[/quote] [url=http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-idUSKCN11T10B]Reuters[/url] For those which are not up to date on the situation - Russia and Syria have managed to lock-down East Aleppo again, and have pretty much made it impossible for any supplies to enter or leave the city. Syria's armed forces have also managed to somewhat trick the rebels into putting tons of their forces into East Aleppo during the ceasefire, and with most of those forces locked down, they Russian and Syrian airforces are carpet bombing with white phosphorous and cluster munitions. It is estimated at this current moment in time that roughly 500+ civilians have been killed, and several major civilian infrastructures are being targeted, including a water treatment plant which has been currently bombed into disrepair.

[quote]carpet bombing with white phosphorous and cluster munitions[/quote] Fuck everything :nope: [editline]edit[/editline] Indiscriminate bombing aside, aren't both of these banned at least from this use because they often maim people and can stay dangerous for a long time depending on the circumstances?

[quote]carpet bombing with white phosphorous and cluster munitions[/quote] And thermobaric. At this point I feel we, the europeans/us, need to step in just to save people from the Russians and Assad. Is that like neo-jingoism or something Modern day white mans burden: We the european shining city on the hill must save the world

[QUOTE=Tamschi;51093652]Indiscriminate bombing aside, aren't both of these banned at least from this use because they often maim people and can stay dangerous for a long time depending on the circumstances?[/QUOTE] [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions[/url] Neither Russia or the US have signed it. [editline]23rd September 2016[/editline] Unless there is another convention/treaty on cluster munitions that I don't know about.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51093678]And thermobaric. At this point I feel we, the europeans/us, need to step in just to save people from the Russians and Assad. Is that like neo-jingoism or something Modern day white mans burden: We the european shining city on the hill must save the world[/QUOTE] Something like that, and unless you mean aid convoys (which aren't exactly possible when they get targeted and bombed), this would carry the exact same implications of making things way worse than they are anyway. [editline]23rd September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Araknid;51093774][url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Cluster_Munitions[/url] Neither Russia or the US have signed it. [editline]23rd September 2016[/editline] Unless there is another convention/treaty on cluster munitions that I don't know about.[/QUOTE] No, that's it. I really should expect them to not having signed things like this at this point.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51093678]And thermobaric. At this point I feel we, the europeans/us, need to step in just to save people from the Russians and Assad. Is that like neo-jingoism or something Modern day white mans burden: We the european shining city on the hill must save the world[/QUOTE] We do seem to be the only people who - as a country and government - consider Syrians to be humans. Russia and Syria seem to not care how those poor people suffer as a result of this war as long as the ends involve the current governments being on top. I firmly believe we're in Syria because we think we're doing the right thing - Russia just doesn't care.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;51093838]Something like that, and unless you mean aid convoys (which aren't exactly possible when they get targeted and bombed), this would carry the exact same implications of making things way worse than they are anyway. [/QUOTE] You're probably right. I'm at a loss as to how this situation can be salvaged. I'd say best thing is for the civilians to get out there, before they get blown up by Assad or enslaved by IS, but nobody wants them, they'd rather compare them to skittles and let them drown.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51093678]And thermobaric. At this point I feel we, the europeans/us, need to step in just to save people from the Russians and Assad. Is that like neo-jingoism or something Modern day white mans burden: We the european shining city on the hill must save the world[/QUOTE] white phosphorus is illegal to use in this fashion even in russia

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51093678]And thermobaric. At this point I feel we, the europeans/us, need to step in just to save people from the Russians and Assad. Is that like neo-jingoism or something Modern day white mans burden: We the european shining city on the hill must save the world[/QUOTE] This is liberalism. Democracies, such as the US, France, Britain, and Germany, tend to want to intervene in conflicts that don't directly affect us, because the IR theory that prevails in these democracies is generally that cooperation among countries, institutions like the UN, and bigger countries stepping in to help smaller ones promotes absolute gains for all. The saying goes "a rising tide lifts all boats", and that translates as: "if we try to promote stability in the Middle East, then it will mean more financial stability in the west (less refugees) and more security as well (less terrorist attacks)." Russia and Assad are not promoting security, they're promoting the Assad government, which is very friendly towards Putin and Russia. Saving Syria from the Russians could both promote or prevent stability, depending on how you go about it

[QUOTE=proboardslol;51094329]This is liberalism. -snip- [/quote] I thought it was textbook neoconservative? Also the whole "rise the water level so all the boats get higher"/"make the pie bigger so everyone gets a bigger share" is more to do with right wing economics vs left wing economics - specifically being the right wing (left wing would share the pie more equally rather than make it bigger). And right wing liberal (I'll call them libertarians) would probably be opposed to such intervention. I'm not 100% sure you're right about your labelling, what definition are you using?

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51094366] (left wing would share the pie more equally rather than make it bigger) [/QUOTE] hahahaha that sounds like a stereotypical facebook post from everyone's obnoxious far right uncle.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51093866]You're probably right. I'm at a loss as to how this situation can be salvaged. I'd say best thing is for the civilians to get out there, before they get blown up by Assad or enslaved by IS, but nobody wants them, they'd rather compare them to skittles and let them drown.[/QUOTE] The city is under siege. I don't think they could get out even if they knew a place where they could live well and had otherwise the means to get there.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51093678]And thermobaric. At this point I feel we, the europeans/us, need to step in just to save people from the Russians and Assad. Is that like neo-jingoism or something Modern day white mans burden: We the european shining city on the hill must save the world[/QUOTE] What the fuck does this look like? European armed forces are just going to invade Syria and start shooting Russian jets out of the sky?

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;51093866][...] skittles [...][/QUOTE] On that note: [media]https://twitter.com/YouAndYourEgo/status/779354421675253760[/media] The whole argument is pretty ridiculous anyway though, if you consider that we have police who can do something about the terrorists in question.

[QUOTE=King Tiger;51095725]What the fuck does this look like? European armed forces are just going to invade Syria and start shooting Russian jets out of the sky?[/QUOTE] Absolutely not. [editline]24th September 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Dolton;51095629]hahahaha that sounds like a stereotypical facebook post from everyone's obnoxious far right uncle.[/QUOTE] Its an overly simple explanation perhaps but is it wrong? Socialism would seek to distribute the pie in a fairer manner such that the top 10% don't leave the bottom 90% fighting over 20% Just as a note - I prefer the fairer pie distribution to the naive "keep growing the pie" thing. Gross inequality is gross.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;51093652]Fuck everything :nope: [editline]edit[/editline] Indiscriminate bombing aside, aren't both of these banned at least from this use because they often maim people and can stay dangerous for a long time depending on the circumstances?[/QUOTE] Countries aren't forced to sign munition treaties, the US and Russia never did.

This isn't surprising in the least; the more aid and supplies that go in to Aleppo, even if to relieve the civilian population, makes the city hold out longer against the government forces. The peace brokered by the US and Russia was doomed before it began as Assad has shown he wants to take back his entire country with no restrictions.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;51095752]On that note: [media]https://twitter.com/YouAndYourEgo/status/779354421675253760[/media] The whole argument is pretty ridiculous anyway though, if you consider that we have police who can do something about the terrorists in question.[/QUOTE] All I can say is look at the argument of gumballs and immigration. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE[/media] You'll never solve the world's problems by constantly taking the best and brightest of certain countries. Hell you are only going to make the problems in their home countries worse by taking away laborers and intellects from the pool of people that exist in those countries. When I look at Syria, and the current "refugee" issue, I am seeing a huge brain drain in Syria and the middle east as a whole. Not only is that going to be destructive with the influx of radicals in those regions, but when you actually need to rebuild, you need those people that are right now running away.

Ever since I watched the video on the people in Aleppo protesting against UN aid I felt we should just pull out and leave them to the Russians. They don't want us, for good reason, to stay around. All we've done is make the situation worse with our presence there from the beginning. With Iraq and Libya, we didn't stay around to ensure stability. In Syria, we didn't have a presence at all and the opposition fell apart because of that. At this point we should just let Assad stay and end the pain quickly. Send the refugees back to him.