• [The Pixel Show] The Copyright Conundrum (Does Warhammer 40K Space Marine rip off Gears?)
    13 replies, posted
For goodness sake watch the video before adding a post. [video=youtube;6-4JYPG5BK8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-4JYPG5BK8[/video]
[B]Edit:[/B] [SUB](This is why you don't just read the title, skim the video, then comment.)[/SUB] I think the short answer to your question is, "Yes." The long version : There seems to be a different form of intertextuality in games. As soon as a new idea comes forth, someone is going to cannibalize it. Sure some of the mechanics might be the same, but you could say that about most modern shooters. Is it right? Well that depends on personal beliefs. I'm not a fan of it, but it does keep new titles coming out while we wait for something fresh and innovative.
[QUOTE=Super Muffin;36797040]This is facetious, or satirical. Right?[/QUOTE] No. You must understand I'm not talking about the 40K universe as a whole, just the game Space Marine. Episode's question: Is it right for it to take shooter conventions that were popularised by such games as Resi 4 and Gears of War and use them, just because its universe inspired some concepts from Gears?
His lisp bothers me...
How can it rip Gears off, the most they have in common is shooting, Gears is more cover based, Space Marine is more get in close and rip somethings head off.
[QUOTE=KitAlexHarrison;36797076]No. You must understand I'm not talking about the 40K universe as a whole, just the game Space Marine. Episode's question: Is it right for it to take shooter conventions that were popularised by such games as Resi 4 and Gears of War and use them, just because its universe inspired some concepts from Gears?[/QUOTE] Can't really compare the two games though, Gear of War takes high inspiration from the 40k universe, fuck the guy who designed the concepts of the Lancer said he was inspired off the 40k chainsword. Sure they are both 3rd person over the shoulder games but Space Marine isn't really a squad shooter in the same aspect Gears of War isn't RIP TEAR PLOW THROUGH ENEMIES WITH MY HUGE FOOT BLOOD EVERYWHERE CHAINSWORD SLASHING EVERYTHING I SEE like Space Marine can be, sure I can see your point from the shooter side of both games but be serious, who the fuck shoots in Space Marine? The first thing you do is look for the best way to get as close as you can to that huge pile of orks so you can condemn the wrath of Fuklaw on their asses all while Marcus is busy dashing from cover to cover with his gun shooting things then stopping to get locked into a quicktime event with the Lancer. The games might look similar but really they are completely different, there are thousands of games on the market which are similar at first look but once you play them you start to notice the differences. Plus there is the fact games have been taking aspects of others and using them their own way for years, if it works and if it works well of course it's going to be the base of inspiration or even direct copying. Either way I kinda think this is a bad comparison, the only thing these two games have in common is the 3rd person camera, huge beefy characters (not so much for Space Marine as it's mainly all power armour but looks close enough), cover based shooting (welcome to 2010, may I take your game ideas and ram generic into it?) and similar base inspirations. In the end the real question is, is the game good? Which looking at both is yes being honest. [editline].[/editline] Also like how you swapped the titles on the game previews.
[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;36798370]the only thing these two games have in common is the 3rd person camera, [B]huge beefy characters[/B] (not so much for Space Marine as it's mainly all power armour but looks close enough), [B]cover based shooting[/B] (welcome to 2010, may I take your game ideas and ram generic into it?) and similar base inspirations.[/QUOTE] First bold: You haven't seen any of the images of the Astartes outside of armour, then. Second bold: There are no cover mechanics at all in Space Marine.
[QUOTE=eddy-tt-;36798370]Can't really compare the two games though, Gear of War takes high inspiration from the 40k universe, fuck the guy who designed the concepts of the Lancer said he was inspired off the 40k chainsword. Sure they are both 3rd person over the shoulder games but Space Marine isn't really a squad shooter in the same aspect Gears of War isn't RIP TEAR PLOW THROUGH ENEMIES WITH MY HUGE FOOT BLOOD EVERYWHERE CHAINSWORD SLASHING EVERYTHING I SEE like Space Marine can be, sure I can see your point from the shooter side of both games but be serious, who the fuck shoots in Space Marine? The first thing you do is look for the best way to get as close as you can to that huge pile of orks so you can condemn the wrath of Fuklaw on their asses all while Marcus is busy dashing from cover to cover with his gun shooting things then stopping to get locked into a quicktime event with the Lancer. The games might look similar but really they are completely different, there are thousands of games on the market which are similar at first look but once you play them you start to notice the differences. Plus there is the fact games have been taking aspects of others and using them their own way for years, if it works and if it works well of course it's going to be the base of inspiration or even direct copying. Either way I kinda think this is a bad comparison, the only thing these two games have in common is the 3rd person camera, huge beefy characters (not so much for Space Marine as it's mainly all power armour but looks close enough), cover based shooting (welcome to 2010, may I take your game ideas and ram generic into it?) and similar base inspirations. In the end the real question is, is the game good? Which looking at both is yes being honest. [editline].[/editline] Also like how you swapped the titles on the game previews.[/QUOTE] Both games are very similar in a number of elements though. Though Space Marine has no cover mechanics, the enemies usually damaged me to such an extent that I was frequently forced to awkwardly position myself with some scenery between them and me so my shields could pop back up. Add to this the fact that you can still be damaged while performing a health-giving execution, meaning that not only can you die while performing one of two ways of getting your health back, I tended to feel constantly like I was under threat of death (which is surely not what Relic was going for). I don't know for certain, but doesn't the actual tabletop game of 40K employ some cover tactics for the Marines too? I recognise that they're powerful, but aren't they also supposed to be a little tactical to preserve their (comparatively) minimal numbers, rather than rushing in guns blazing as I imagine the Imperial Guard or even Orks would attempt? Particularly with just three men (I was constantly expecting to regroup with a much bigger force of Ultramarines early on). I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that the game doesn't have huge, beefy characters. Even outside the armour the Astartes are absolutely monstrously huge (though we don't see this in-game), which - like in Gears - is contrasted heavily with the weedy non-Marines. As for "who shoots in Space Marine", I tended to - at a distance, anyway! The portrayal of the Bolter seemed to me a little more akin to a typical gaming assault rifle, though, whereas in "reality" isn't it supposed to be more like a rapid-fire grenade launcher? I dunno, the comparisons to Gears seemed very prominent while I was playing.
[QUOTE=KitAlexHarrison;36798714]whereas in "reality" isn't it supposed to be more like a rapid-fire grenade launcher?[/QUOTE] No. A Bolter fires slugs that after they enter armor/tissue they time detonate into a moderate burst. [quote]but doesn't the actual tabletop game of 40K employ some cover tactics for the Marines[/quote] Not just for marines but for all armys. 3+ fortification 4+ Ruins 5+ woods 6+ shurbs etc etc.
[QUOTE=Fussy!;36798475]First bold: You haven't seen any of the images of the Astartes outside of armour, then. Second bold: There are no cover mechanics at all in Space Marine.[/QUOTE] The first point was more a direct comparison between the two, a space marine is more heavily armoured than the gears of which most of their armour is near nothing, the main aspect they show is how big their arms and chest are. Second was as kit pointed out you ended up just standing behind cover to wait for the regeneration of your shield to kick in, that's still really in essence cover based. I still really don't see how space marine is taking aspects from gears though.
haven't even watched the video, but if Space Marine is borrowing from anything, it's Dynasty Warriors. the combo system is EXACTLY the same (granted it's a fairly common system), but the combat also has a really similar feel...
I like how 40k was around years before the xbox
[QUOTE=Virtanen;36801291]I like how 40k was around years before the xbox[/QUOTE] No-one seems to be watching the video, just coming to this thread and posting immediately. I really should have left the thread title as just "The Copyright Conundrum".
Amended the first post, let's see if things pick up.
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