Defibrillator not used because of hairy chest on plane, man dies.
63 replies, posted
[quote]ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. —A man was flying from Los Angeles to Albuquerque when he died of a heart attack. His wife thinks his hairy chest had something to do with his death, however.
Caroline and Jack Jordan were on the Southwest Airlines flight when the heart attack occurred. Passengers performed CPR, but he didn't survive the attack.
His wife said a defibrillator was on board but wasn't used because of her husband's hairy chest.
"The flight attendant that had been right up there with us said because his chest is too hairy," she said.
KOAT's Dr. Barry Ramo said reacting to an emergency quickly can be the difference between life and death, and chest hair is rarely a factor with a defibrillator not working.
Read more: [url]http://www.koat.com/news/widow-defibrillator-not-used-because-of-husbands-hairy-chest/27780774#ixzz3Bshu4dkF[/url][/quote]
If what the widow claims is true, that's horrifying, but depending on the size of the defibrillator electrodes, the level of transthoracic imepedence is higher. Nonetheless, defibrillation should have been attempted immediately. Most acute heart attack patients are in shockable ventricular tachycardia or ventricular fibrillation. Even if he was shocked back into having a normal heart rhythm, lack of access to ACLS drugs and/or stent for plus 30 minutes while the plane executes an emergency landing means that myocardial death would have probably been to much.
they must have some kind of cheapo razor...
Defibs must include those too.
[quote]His wife said a defibrillator was on board but wasn't used because of her husband's hairy chest.
"The flight attendant that had been right up there with us said because his chest is too hairy," she said.
[/quote]
"My husband is dying from a heart attack, help!"
"his chest is too hairy to use the defibrilator"
"Well can we at least try? Its either that or he might pass away"
"... no"
I thought defibs were only used to restart the heart if the beat is going all over the fucking place.
Does Zonesylvania want to explain more?
[QUOTE=AK'z;45844381]they must have some kind of cheapo razor...
Defibs must include those too.[/QUOTE]
I haven't done a first-aid course in years but I clearly remember them saying that each Defib contains a disposable razor just for this purpose.
[QUOTE=Griffster26;45844489]I thought defibs were only used to restart the heart if the beat is going all over the fucking place.
Does Zonesylvania want to explain more?[/QUOTE]
Defibrillators can restart a heart in ventricular tachycardia (an incredibly fast beat originating from the ventricles, due to irritated heart muscle and electrical timers) the heart usually doesn't have time to fill and thus there is no pulse. It can also shock ventricular fibrillation, when the heart is so hypoxic it stops working and begins firing electrical signals everywhere
[t]http://cdn.lifeinthefastlane.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/VF3.png[/t]
Obviously when your heart is seizing you are getting no good pumping action out of it.
A shock essentially resets the heart's automatic foci and hopefully resets it into a normal sinus rhythm. You can NOT shock asystole (a flatline) or pulseless electrical activity, where there are rhythms on the monitor that are not torsades, VT, VF.
E: Clarification, the automaticity foci are overridden by the shock, hopefully allowing the Sino-Atrial node to start pacing again.
E2: I got asked for a source in PMs, I'm an EMT and medical student.
I recently re-certified my CPR and a typical public defibrillator unit would contain two sets of adhesive pads. If the chest was too hairy, we used one set to stick to the chest to rip off the hair (kind of like waxing) and then use the other set for shocking.
Even if there were only one set of pads, a hairy chest is a poor excuse to shock. Defibrillators make a huge difference to saving lives.
Flight attendants aren't hospital personnel. Why would they take her word as law?
Razors come with the AED device.
This scares me, I have a unholy amount of chest hair.
[QUOTE=dunkace;45844625]This scares me, I have a unholy amount of chest hair.[/QUOTE]
I feel your pain
[QUOTE=Vigilance;45844586]I recently re-certified my CPR and a typical public defibrillator unit would contain two sets of adhesive pads. If the chest was too hairy, we used one set to stick to the chest to rip off the hair (kind of like waxing) and then use the other set for shocking.
Even if there were only one set of pads, a hairy chest is a poor excuse to shock. Defibrillators make a huge difference to saving lives.[/QUOTE]
Hairy chests can break the connection if they don't connect properly - You're advised not to administer shock if this is the case, they were probably following their training too much.
Still though, AEDs do come with razors.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;45844575]Defibrillators can restart a heart in ventricular tachycardia (an incredibly fast beat originating from the ventricles, due to irritated heart muscle and electrical timers) the heart usually doesn't have time to fill and thus there is no pulse. It can also shock ventricular fibrillation, when the heart is so hypoxic it stops working and begins firing electrical signals everywhere
[t]http://cdn.lifeinthefastlane.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/VF3.png[/t]
Obviously when your heart is seizing you are getting no good pumping action out of it.
A shock essentially resets the heart's automatic foci and hopefully resets it into a normal sinus rhythm. You can NOT shock asystole (a flatline) or pulseless electrical activity, where there are rhythms on the monitor that are not torsades, VT, VF.[/QUOTE]
Defibbing doesn't really restart the heart though.
It actually stops it, terminating all electrical activity for a short duration and hopefully the heart will reboot the electrical activity by itself and resume with a normal sinus rhythm
I wonder if the flight attendant actually tried and the defibrillator didn't find a shockable pulse and so wouldn't shock him and the flight attendant wasn't properly trained to recognize that AEDs look for a shockable pulse.
Facepunch, M.D.
Then blamed his hair for why it wouldn't shock him. It doesn't make sense for the flight attendant to just straight up say there was to much hair.
[QUOTE=Pteradactyl;45844591]Flight attendants aren't hospital personnel. Why would they take her word as law?
Razors come with the AED device.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure most flight's attendants have certified first aid and CPR training considering it is a much more serious job than what it was 30 years ago. Still, pretty dumb not to attempt to use it.
[QUOTE=Saturn V;45844664]Defibbing doesn't really restart the heart though.
It actually stops it, terminating all electrical activity for a short duration and hopefully the heart will reboot the electrical activity by itself and resume with a normal sinus rhythm[/QUOTE]
That's what I meant. The foci are overridden by the shock, and activity ceases. And then the heart reboots.
Misinformation getting people killed. Very sad.
[QUOTE=Silentfood;45844695]I'm pretty sure most flight's attendants have certified first aid and CPR training considering it is a much more serious job than what it was 30 years ago. Still, pretty dumb not to attempt to use it.[/QUOTE]
A lot of people don't get that they aren't there to give you nuts and booze. They're highly trained safely officers first and foremost. All other duties come second.
If those claims are true, brain dead flight attendant Jesus Christ.
[QUOTE=darkrei9n;45844691]I wonder if the flight attendant actually tried and the defibrillator didn't find a shockable pulse and so wouldn't shock him and the flight attendant wasn't properly trained to recognize that AEDs look for a shockable pulse.[/QUOTE]
Defibs are different but my lifepak says [i]CHECK ELECTRODES, CHECK ELECTRODES[/i]
[QUOTE=AK'z;45844381]they must have some kind of cheapo razor...
Defibs must include those too.[/QUOTE]
Defibs DO include a cheapo razor, or at least all the ones I've used do.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;45844962]Defibs DO include a cheapo razor, or at least all the ones I've used do.[/QUOTE] Maybe they aren't included on planes because its a sharp thing?
[QUOTE=bord2tears;45844692]Facepunch, M.D.[/QUOTE]
Well we do have an EMT here and I know for certain I'm not the only one with CPR certs. One of the first things we covered in my class was hairy chests, and that you should use the adhesive pads to remove as much as possible before [I]using the goddamn defib.[/I] It's utterly asinine that she didn't even try, even if the guy couldn't be saved she could have at least done her best instead of saying "nope sorry can't be done."
what was she? Afraid of hair or something?
[QUOTE=dunkace;45844625]This scares me, I have a unholy amount of chest hair.[/QUOTE]It's always sad to see a brother lumberjack, viking, or 70's porn star claimed by the steely grip of death. ;_;7
(I, too, have hairy muscletits, and I've thought about what would happen if I needed a jump-start)
[QUOTE=download;45844490]I haven't done a first-aid course in years but I clearly remember them saying that each Defib contains a disposable razor just for this purpose.[/QUOTE]
I just went through a Red Cross-certified first-aid course either this week, or last week.
The semi-automatic defib that was used contained a disposable razor.
Glad I don't have any hair on my chest. I'm 22 and I don't shave or anything, I just don't get any. Used to feel a little embarrassing, but now, I feel a bit better about it. Such a shame that's the cause of this poor man's death though. Just super shitty.
Wow, if this is true that is just not on.
I mean, during my CPR/Defib course the first thing we got told is to always try the defib even if chest hair appears to be an issue (and as many people have said, there should be a razor included in the first place)
Why not try and give that person the possible chance at survival instead of going 'nope, not gonna work?'
Fuckin' boggles the mind.
The most a hairy chest can do is cause burns to the patient from the defibrillator pads. This is actually grounds to sue if the CPR is done and causes burns (A doctor at the hospital I work at has actually been SUCCESSFULLY sued for this because he only cleared most hair and the patient got mild burns, after just saving the man's life).
However, if they were avoiding being sued, the real question is, why was there no razor or wax strip as most defibrillators come standard with them.
[QUOTE=NoobieWafer223;45845750]Glad I don't have any hair on my chest. I'm 22 and I don't shave or anything, I just don't get any. Used to feel a little embarrassing, but now, I feel a bit better about it. Such a shame that's the cause of this poor man's death though. Just super shitty.[/QUOTE]
It's better that way, I grow a little down the middle but then just fuckloads of nip hair
fuck
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