Well it'll just be an easily implemented mod.
Though I really hope Fo4 has a "Hardcore" mode much like FNV.
are people really getting this much meaning out of this one thing lmao
i get his thing about challenge and all that
but escort quests are literally the worst thing ever, and having companions be permanently killable would turn the entire game into an escort quest if you happen to want to bring one with you
it's one thing to protect yourself, it's another thing entirely to protect a dumb AI controlled NPC
it's pretty annoying to load a save because your numb-brained companions AI is shite and it decided to go ahead and attack a behomoth, and then die immediately. Having to continuously do this is pretty much why I either cheat my companions health or don't bother with them at all.
I'm pretty sure the reason they did this is because the other option is kind of worse
not sure why they couldn't just add a toggle for dogmeat's essential status
[QUOTE=Soleeedus;48733340]not sure why they couldn't just add a toggle for dogmeat's essential status[/QUOTE]
to be fair, probably to keep the options list smaller
it'd be a terrible first impression on people to see a huge list of random check boxes
then again, that could easily be based on difficulty. X hard will mean NPCs can die
The problem with followers being killable is probably best demonstrated in Skyrim. Unlike Fallout 3 where followers were essential they could be killed in Skyrim. Which meant that in order for Beth to make sure you never ran out of companions by having them all be killed in fights, there were a fuckton of them. It went from 8 in Fallout 3 to over 70 in Skyrim. Because of that absolutely none of the followers in Skyrim are in any way memorable or have any character of any kind, because they're made to effectively be dispensable tools. When you have 70 characters, you can't really flesh them all out to be as interesting or unique as a follower should be.
If they don't make hardcore then I will attempt too. It can't be much harder than the house I made for NV which had scripting. Yeah sure GECK wouldn't be available after release. But I am gonna tinker with it when it comes out. And the best fun I had in NV was on hardcore mode.
I agree with the video. When I saw the dog my first thought was sweet, I'm going to put a landmine in his dog house and send him to sleep, or order it to run across a mine field and watch it detonate mines and explode into tiny dogbits while clearing a way for me.
There will be mod. It's okay.
they have 2 months to release this game. Are we going to get anything that doesn't look pre-rendered and prestaged as hell?
[QUOTE=yodafart9;48734156]they have 2 months to release this game. [B]Are we going to get anything that doesn't look pre-rendered [/B]and prestaged as hell?[/QUOTE]
what do you mean?
[editline]21st September 2015[/editline]
and of course its staged, literally like, every game studio that doesn't want a crash in the middle of e3 will stage it
[QUOTE=yodafart9;48734156]they have 2 months to release this game. Are we going to get anything that doesn't look pre-rendered and prestaged as hell?[/QUOTE]
Staged? You know it. But pre-rendered? I'm fairly sure they switched to PBR, what they are putting out in their trailers is pretty much what you can expect to see on the higher settings in that case. They've had time to actually evolve the engine, especially seeing as they need to target the new consoles.
I'd much rather have the followers be essential so I can play the game with them and not savescum while gaining the ability to make them mortal whenever the SDK is released than the opposite.
Same goes with hardcore mode, basic needs and whatnot. Just don't bother putting it in the game and let the modders come up with their own niche mechanics that only a handful of the total playerbase will get to use and enjoy. Putting one yourself means you'll waste precious development time and resources making a mod that's destined to a very small amount of players most of which will still be disappointed by it and will opt for better systems anyway.
Bethesda games aren't hard and aren't designed to be hard. If you want difficulty, mod it in or play another game.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;48733273]guarantee there will be a day 1 mod where all essential flag npcs will be turned nonessential[/QUOTE]
Can't wait to find out I can't do some quests because an essential NPC where I haven't even gone yet decided it would be a bight idea to pick a fight with a Deathclaw.
Why the fuck are people so wound up about stuff like this?! The AI is stupid and usually gets itself killed, so I'd rather have invulnerability than dying.
If you really want dogmeat to be mortal, do the following if you are on PC:
[QUOTE=diwako;48731755]Get Dogmeats RefID, type this into the console "setessential (ref ID)". Bam None essential NPC is now impossible to kill and an essential NPC becomes mortal. Does not even require mods at all.[/QUOTE]
Just have it be a toggle. Don't include it in Hardcore Mode, don't include it in normal mode, just have it be a separate toggle so that everyone gets the experience they want.
I personally can see where it comes from. Some people will be fine with their companions dying, but most people aren't, including myself. I like the games super fucking hard, I love it when they're like that. I think if you're going to make a post apocalypse game and you make it anything but brutally hard, [I]you should not be making a post apocalypse game.[/I] Difficulty is inherent to the genre and theme.
But here's the problem: companions are more than just companions by Fallout: New Vegas. And what I mean by that is that when you get a companion, you get so much more than someone to help you fight. You get dialogue from them in different situations, you get to hear their thoughts on the world, and most importantly, they have their own questlines. When a companion dies, you lose part of the game, you don't get to see everything, you're missing out, and that's something a lot of us are going to be inherently uncomfortable with. I'm fine with the idea that picking Imperials never means I'm going to see the Stormcloak quests, that's a choice, but I'm not going to be fine with having to watch my companion like a hawk and hope their AI doesn't shit out and they do something stupid and die or we don't bump in to a deathclaw (which is likely if FO3's random events return) and they die because we've got no chance.
Some people are going to want that difficulty and that hardness of it, like they had it in Fallout 1. Those people's needs should be met too. I mean it's literally a toggle, I'm not a game designer but you'd think it wouldn't be that hard to give us a switch.
[editline]21st September 2015[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ganerumo;48734228]
Bethesda games aren't hard and aren't designed to be hard. If you want difficulty, mod it in or play another game.[/QUOTE]
And this is always going to be one of Bethesda's biggest faults
wow people are REALLY thinking that hard about it
like its somehow a thing that needs to be any debate
they already have a toggle, it's called "Debug console".
[editline]21st September 2015[/editline]
like they're not going to have a menu setting specifically for a dumb dog in a game, that's just silly.
and if dogmeat could die then people would have said exactly the same thing just opposite, and they could have fixed it just as easily if he couldn't.
[QUOTE=J!NX;48734436]wow people are REALLY thinking that hard about it
like its somehow a thing that needs to be a huge debate[/QUOTE]
For some people it is going to effect their experience and nag the fuck out of them (if they can't fix it themselves), which I completely get really
I mean sure you can say it'll be modded in but I find that's an extremely fucking lazy thought process, mods should not be considered when developing a game beyond it being possible to mod it, excusing your flaws because they can mod it out doesn't change the fact that your game is flawed, plus there's console versions that probably aren't going to be as extensively moddable as PC (though we'll have to see)
I read the comments.
:suicide:
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;48734466]For some people it is going to effect their experience and nag the fuck out of them (if they can't fix it themselves), which I completely get really
[B]I mean sure you can say it'll be modded in but I find that's an extremely fucking lazy thought process[/B], mods should not be considered when developing a game beyond it being possible to mod it, excusing your flaws because they can mod it out doesn't change the fact that your game is flawed, plus there's console versions that probably aren't going to be as extensively moddable as PC (though we'll have to see)[/QUOTE]
So what are they going to do, have 50 check boxes of "Shit I don't like about this game that I want to change" every single time you start a new game? that's completely inane. There is so much shit that I hated in fallout. Theres no way to balance your game when you try and make it "Pre modded" and have tons of different features that have no real use. If they checkbox the mortality of a dog they may as well checkbox a huge array of other gameplay mechanics as well. They should checkbox karma, because I think it's a failed system, oh, and they should also checkbox bones breaking, and instant healing, because someone [I]might [/I]mod that out.
And they aren't considering modding at all, they're considering whats balanced and that's it. You don't even have to mod the game to make him a non essential npc, and even if you had to this is such a minor thing it's barely a problem. The reason this isn't actually a problem is because it's so easy to fix that it won't even take like, 3 minutes
Not a fan of essential followers, im fine with them being invincible for when i want to choose a companion i think is fun or has great dialogue. But i really do not want a dog companion, or any animal that has no dialogue.
Also will be annoyed if were stuck following a dog around for hidden treasure , i want to scavenge my own stuff.
[QUOTE=mickers;48734518]Not a fan of essential followers, im fine with them being invincible for when i want to choose a companion i think is fun or has great dialogue. But i really do not want a dog companion, or any animal that has no dialogue.
Also will be annoyed if were stuck following a dog around for hidden treasure , i want to scavenge my own stuff.[/QUOTE]
just don't take him with you
I don't know why people don't realize this, they aren't going to make it impossible to get arid of dogmeat. You aren't forced to be followed by him, just tell him to fuck off.
unless they do something retarded like make it a story important character like that orange thing in "An elysium tale", but there's no way that'll happen.
[QUOTE=J!NX;48734535]or just don't take him with you?
I don't know why people don't realize this[/QUOTE]
I have not looked at anything about the game other than the original teaser trailer, so if not taking him is an option, great that's exactly what i will do.
Why don't you chill out a bit. Not everyone has been following all the news and features for this game.
[QUOTE=mickers;48734578]I have not looked at anything about the game other than the original teaser trailer, so if not taking him is an option, great that's exactly what i will do.
Why don't you chill out a bit. Not everyone has been following all the news and features for this game.[/QUOTE]
oh nvm you might not be familiar with the companion system in fo then, that makes more sense
people are acting like they're going to be forced to use him against they're will just because of this, it's kind of silly. Especially since most of the people bring up companions in fallout 3/skyrim and are familiar with how Bethesda works with them.
You can just go "piss off you smelly butt" and companions will go home. So you're pretty much ok.
fable is a good example of the opposite, where they have a dog that's story essential for some reason and actually pretty useful, but you can't really not be followed by him.
[QUOTE=J!NX;48734514]So what are they going to do, have 50 check boxes of "Shit I don't like about this game that I want to change" every single time you start a new game? that's completely inane. There is so much shit that I hated in fallout. Theres no way to balance your game when you try and make it "Pre modded" and have tons of different features that have no real use. If they checkbox the mortality of a dog they may as well checkbox a huge array of other gameplay mechanics as well. They should checkbox karma, because I think it's a failed system, oh, and they should also checkbox bones breaking, and instant healing, because someone [I]might [/I]mod that out.
And they aren't considering modding at all, they're considering whats balanced and that's it. You don't even have to mod the game to make him a non essential npc, and even if you had to this is such a minor thing it's barely a problem. The reason this isn't actually a problem is because it's so easy to fix that it won't even take like, 3 minutes[/QUOTE]
Or they could just make a game that doesn't need mods? Great games usually don't. I mean how would you mod Dark Souls anyway (beyond making it fucking functional on PC)? Or to give you a Bethesda game, Morrowind doesn't really need much mods at all because it's solid in and of itself. Pretty much all the mods one 'needs' to use are just for fun or to graphically update the game, neither of which make it a bad game itself. If, for instance, they would take the time to properly adapt the fucking UI for PC, we wouldn't need SkyUI and DarnUI and all that shit.
Whether Bethesda considers modding or not is up for debate and really impossible to tell. I mean shit, settlements are the cornerstone of this game apparently and that's very blatantly inspired by mods. In Skyrim, kids when modded to be killable have appropriate death noises and shit. So they do at least consider it somewhat, but we can't know the extent since we don't work at Bethesda. At any rate, it's more appropriate to say the [I]fans[/I] shouldn't excuse Bethesda's faults because 'oh well you can mod it out'.
And if they did have a detailed check box of things you could enable or disable...I really wouldn't have a problem with that actually. Although Karma is a bad comparison because unless they do it like Fallout New Vegas where karma was such a nonfactor that you could completely ignore it (please god no more basic morality) disabling it would break all kinds of shit. A dog being able to die doesn't, unless he plays in to quests.
the thing is, I actually don't mod fallout 3 / nv until my 2nd or 3rd play through because the games [I]don't[/I] need mods. And idk why everyone holds morrowind to such a high standard, I couldn't possibly play that game without mods considering how massively shit the combat is for anyone that doesn't have special knowledge.
if they considered making fallout 3 not need mods it would, again, have 50 check boxes to change every single little niggle people "Could have a problem with and mod away", or they could just not think about mods and do what comes natural. If they considered making Fallout 4 "Not need mods" they would spend half of the games funds on tedious and insane tweaks that do almost nothing.
Modding and bethesda games only go so hand in hand because the games are so openly moddable. It has nothing to do with bethesda making bad games. It has nothing to do with a game being great either. People mod bethesda games because they played the game for 150 hours already and want to give the experience spice.
and the reason dark souls doesn't have mods is because that game isn't even close to a bethesda game when it comes to moddablity. [URL="http://www.nexusmods.com/darksouls/"]Doesn't stop people though.[/URL] It has nothing to do with how "great dark souls is". The game simply does not have a dedicated modding engine like bethesda's games do, and it's a multiplayer game on top of that, making it a bit iffy.
if dark souls had the same modding tools as bethesdas games I guarantee you we'd see a 10v10 player arena map by now. It's not really practical however.
This is a REALLY weird conversation to have when every Fallout and Oblivion game has companions checked as essential (with some exceptions like Hardcore mode).
[QUOTE=ZestyLemons;48734728]This is a REALLY weird conversation to have when every Fallout and Oblivion game has companions checked as essential (with some exceptions like Hardcore mode).[/QUOTE]
especially when you can fix it with a simple console command
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.