U.S. no longer a 'friend' in Merkel election program
11 replies, posted
[quote]
In their campaign program for the German election, Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives have dropped the term "friend" in describing the relationship with the United States.[/quote]
[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-election-merkel-usa-idUSKBN19O1NS[/url]
Putin is successfully destabilizing the EU and NATO. Decades later, scores of Latvians, Estonians, and Ukranians will look back on this year as the beginning of the end.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52428226]Putin is successfully destabilizing the EU and NATO. Decades later, scores of Latvians, Estonians, and Ukranians will look back on this year as the beginning of the end.[/QUOTE]
Think it's more likely that much of the damage will be undone as soon as Trump is ejected.
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52428226]Putin is successfully destabilizing the EU and NATO. Decades later, scores of Latvians, Estonians, and Ukranians will look back on this year as the beginning of the end.[/QUOTE]
lol
Russia isn't the scary powerful superpower it used to be. Sure it still has tons of nukes but they wouldn't use those against Europe. If a war ever did break out you gotta realize Europe has some of the most modern armies in the world. With all of NATO involved Russia wouldn't easily steamroll.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52428358]lol
Russia isn't the scary powerful superpower it used to be. Sure it still has tons of nukes but they wouldn't use those against Europe. If a war ever did break out you gotta realize Europe has some of the most modern armies in the world. With all of NATO involved Russia wouldn't easily steamroll.[/QUOTE]
I'm not talking about WW3, I'm talking about Russian state capture of former USSR states; these countries effectively lose all autonomy as Russian shills bribe their way into power. More people like Viktor Yanukovych, less freedom, more corruption, less opportunities, all the while the few in power in Russia and those in bed with Putin get richer while the common man gets poorer.
Ukraine becomes a Russian satellite state again, so does Estonia, Latvia, and other Eastern European countries.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52428358]lol
Russia isn't the scary powerful superpower it used to be. Sure it still has tons of nukes but they wouldn't use those against Europe. If a war ever did break out you gotta realize Europe has some of the most modern armies in the world. With all of NATO involved Russia wouldn't easily steamroll.[/QUOTE]
Nobody in the world knows that better than Russia. They have known this for [I]decades[/I]. They know they don't have the equipment and they definitely know they don't have the economy for open war
That's why Russia much prefers espionage and information warfare, they don't need open war to cement a stronger position for themselves on the global scale, they just need to undermine someone else's position. Putin doesn't need to fight things like the EU or NATO if they've been fractured and disseminated. It's not exactly a coincidence that so many EU and NATO skeptics wind up having questionable ties to Rooskaland, y'know
Assuming the threat from Russia is military is the same tier of bullshit as 'North Korea can level Seoul in hours with artillery'
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52428397]I'm not talking about WW3, I'm talking about Russian state capture of former USSR states; these countries effectively lose all autonomy as Russian shills bribe their way into power. More people like Viktor Yanukovych, less freedom, more corruption, less opportunities, all the while the few in power in Russia and those in bed with Putin get richer while the common man gets poorer.
Ukraine becomes a Russian satellite state again, so does Estonia, Latvia, and other Eastern European countries.[/QUOTE]
There's way too many variables to make such a definitive prediction. Also correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Ukraine actually has a sizeable Russian minority that wants to align with Russia whilst Estonia and Latvia don't.
[editline]3rd July 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sitkero;52428562]That's why Russia much prefers espionage and information warfare, they don't need open war to cement a stronger position for themselves on the global scale, they just need to undermine someone else's position. Putin doesn't need to fight things like the EU or NATO if they've been fractured and disseminated. It's not exactly a coincidence that so many EU and NATO skeptics wind up having questionable ties to Rooskaland, y'know[/QUOTE]
And so far the US is the only election they've been able to influence, no?
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52428358]lol
Russia isn't the scary powerful superpower it used to be. Sure it still has tons of nukes but they wouldn't use those against Europe. If a war ever did break out you gotta realize Europe has some of the most modern armies in the world. With all of NATO involved Russia wouldn't easily steamroll.[/QUOTE]
The world isn't just America mate, a lot of Eastern European countries have really just started to go in a pretty good direction and Russia destabilising the EU will definitely stop/slow that.
[QUOTE=Rossy167;52428659]The world isn't just America mate, a lot of Eastern European countries have really just started to go in a pretty good direction and Russia destabilising the EU will definitely stop/slow that.[/QUOTE]
No doubt in my mind Russia will try, but this whole doom and gloom thing I can't get behind.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52428568]There's way too many variables to make such a definitive prediction. Also correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Ukraine actually has a sizeable Russian minority that wants to align with Russia whilst Estonia and Latvia don't.[/quote]
There's not a large Russian population in the USA and somehow Putin has convinced all the conservatives that Russia is their friend.
Putin uses Russo-centrism in its immediate neighbors, but breeds euroskepticism and nationalism in far off countries like France, the UK, and the USA. Whereas in Georgia and Ukraine the rhetoric is that "Ukraine is committing crimes against humanity against ethnic Russians" (his Ruskiy Mir ideology (aka Volksgenossen)), the rhetoric in the targets for state capture like the USA and France are that Muslims, blacks, latinos, etc. are polluting our culture, terrorists, etc. and that the EU is an organization hellbent on destroying French, German, British etc. cultural identity.
[quote]And so far the US is the only election they've been able to influence, no?[/QUOTE]
France, Belarus, Ukraine, Kazakstan, Syria, to name a few
Russia has its fingers in all the far-right and dictator pies.
[QUOTE=Destroyox;52428568]There's way too many variables to make such a definitive prediction. Also correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Ukraine actually has a sizeable Russian minority that wants to align with Russia whilst Estonia and Latvia don't.
[editline]3rd July 2017[/editline]
And so far the US is the only election they've been able to influence, no?[/QUOTE]
Estonia and Latvia are ex-Soviet satellite states with valuable ports that would allow Russian ships to bypass the strait of Gibraltar and the Suez canal. Bullshit Russian minorities or not, they are absolutely part of the Putin gameplan
[url=http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-security-usa-idUSKCN12D13Q]Influencing elections isn't the only part of what they do to secure power[/url]
[url=https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/russias-influence-in-western-elections/2016/04/08/b427602a-fcf1-11e5-886f-a037dba38301_story.html]Not that they don't keep trying[/url]
[url=http://www.newsweek.com/russias-ruling-party-strikes-cooperation-deal-italian-euroskeptics-564427]Building alliances is also important[/url]
[url=http://www.ibtimes.com/russias-growing-influence-europe-moldova-election-results-come-after-maneuvering-2439454]Even if they're not quite at the point of influencing elections 100%[/url], they are [I]definitely getting better at it[/I], and [url=https://csis-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/legacy_files/files/publication/141117_Conley.pdf]they're doing serious leg work[/url] to foster pro-Russian and enti-EU sentiment [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_influence_operations_in_Estonia]and push for influence wherever they can
[QUOTE=Sitkero;52428728]Estonia and Latvia are ex-Soviet satellite states with valuable parts that would allow Russian ships to bypass the strait of Gibraltar and the Suez canal. Bullshit Russian minorities or not, they are absolutely part of the Putin gameplan[/QUOTE]
Russia already has ports in the Baltic like St. Petersburg, I mean Kaliningrad actually lies more to the south than any Baltic state, getting less ice in the winter.
The problem is you still have to get through the Danish Straits, which is just another heavily controlled chokepoint, even more so than the Bosphorus.
From a naval standpoint there is nothing to gain from these states.
Also lets not extrapolate what happened in Ukraine to these countries. Ever since the Crimean Crisis, the support of their pro-Russia parties have stagnated or actually went down, and they are working really hard to decrease their economical dependece on Russia (including their energy sector). Not to mention, they are EU and NATO members, the latter still means a [U]lot[/U] nowadays, at least when it comes to the threat of annexation.
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