How can teachers afford guns if they can barely afford school supplies?
[editline]16th February 2018[/editline]
Ditto for armed guards, metal detectors.
There seems to be a flaw in his solution.
it's insane that a legitimate response to school shootings is "arm the teachers"
[QUOTE=Pat.Lithium;53138249]it's insane that a legitimate response to school shootings is "arm the teachers"[/QUOTE]
Shoot the students, then no student can shoot up the school :v:
Funneling the entire student body through a few metal detectors sounds like a great way to get more people killed if a school shooter shows up
And armed guards/teachers probably wouldn't accomplish much, even if it was practical you'd only be minimising casualties at best and a shooter would just shoot the guard/teacher first at worst
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;53138257]And armed guards/teachers probably wouldn't accomplish much, even if it was practical you'd only be minimising casualties at best and a shooter would just shoot the guard/teacher first at worst[/QUOTE]Plus I can imagine SWAT teams trying to clear the building could mistake an armed teacher as the shooter. Just seems like it would cause more of a mess.
they can't spend money on toner or books or anything for the students, why the fuck should they spend money on making schools into an even more stressful environment?
That's what pisses me off so much about it.
Republicans are all about slashing the shit out of school budgets but somehow find the money to spare when guns are involved. Fucking pathetic.
This video is infuriating because it's formatted in a very normal "Free inspiration guru" style where they speak very quickly and bluntly as if it's an ultimate truth and revel in their own wisdom and clever wording. It's the kind of garbage people shitpost on facebook to validate themselves.
Teachers and guards with guns may stop a shooting, but it isn't doing anything to prevent it.
the only thing you're doing is making school feel even more like a hostile place and making it look more and more like a war zone than a place of learning
It's also ignoring why they might be shooting schools up in the first place because kids are treated like shit in schools, punished for defending themselves against bullies, constantly talked down to like they're inferior, and never listened to.
This whole "evil" buzzword he keeps using is pretentious as fuck because he's completely ignoring the root of the problem and saying that you can't "talk to it nicely" but if you actually communicated to the kids like they were human beings and showed even a little respect then they wouldn't be so stressed out that they kill themselves or other people. That isn't an ultimate solution either, but it's far better than the 'fight fire by shooting it with a gun' logic he's using.
You can infact talk to a school shooter, they aren't 'merely evil', no matter how hard you try and paint them as otherwise. Are they wrong for being spree killers? No argument, yes. But they're still doing this for a reason. You can still find out WHY they are doing it and whats causing it.
Yes, teachers with guns could make schools safer, and I'm sure that if one started it could be stopped before anyone is hurt, faster and far easier. However, no, it won't stop shootings to begin with.
it could also completely fail to stop a shooter at all. The idea that this alone will "Stop them" is naive. There are also whacko teachers that should never be around guns, let alone kids.
[t]https://i.imgur.com/McH3DlO.png[/t]
I'm happy that we have people that are allowed to express their freedom to use guns, but I don't think this guy should be advocating for something like this.
[QUOTE=TacticalBacon;53138257]Funneling the entire student body through a few metal detectors sounds like a great way to get more people killed if a school shooter shows up
And armed guards/teachers probably wouldn't accomplish much, even if it was practical you'd only be minimising casualties at best and a shooter would just shoot the guard/teacher first at worst[/QUOTE]
there are only so many exits to start with. it's not like he's suggesting one metal detector will do the job.
the armed guards are meant to be primarily a deterrent, not the only line of defense.
[QUOTE=butre;53138283]there are only so many exits to start with. it's not like he's suggesting one metal detector will do the job.
the armed guards are meant to be primarily a deterrent, not the only line of defense.[/QUOTE]
I can see how a hidden metal detector would probably be pretty useful.
[QUOTE=J!NX;53138285]I can see how a hidden metal detector would probably be pretty useful.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn't a hidden metal detector be going off every 3 seconds from kids' belts and loose change?
Great idea, give the teachers guns
Because kids never steal things right?
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;53138290]Wouldn't a hidden metal detector be going off every 3 seconds from kids' belts and loose change?[/QUOTE]
My old school had a metal detector and it was always a hassle.
Kids snuck shit in anyway. We had people leaving guns hidden on campus overnight.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;53138290]Wouldn't a hidden metal detector be going off every 3 seconds from kids' belts and loose change?[/QUOTE]
I'd imagine so, it'd also be insanely expensive.
Thinking about it, after a while it might even end up being ignored entirely. Then you add armed guards, it almost seems like better counselling would do a better job and be less expensive. I can still see how guns can STOP and maybe even deter it, but the video doesn't seem to talk about anything else, it's like it's trying to say that this is the ultimate answer.
I'm trying to mentally advocate for how it'll work within budget. The trouble with this is that someone could still open fire on the guards if they really wanted to shoot a school up, making them useless, or sneak shit in regardless. There are many things you can sneak past guards.
It may make it harder, but it's way not a solution.
[QUOTE=J!NX;53138297]I'd imagine so, it'd also be insanely expensive.
Thinking about it, after a while it might even end up being ignored entirely. Then you add armed guards, it almost seems like better counselling would do a better job and be less expensive. I can still see how guns can STOP and maybe even deter it, but the video doesn't seem to talk about anything else, it's like it's trying to say that this is the ultimate answer.
I'm trying to mentally advocate for how it'll work within budget.[/QUOTE]
It is also only addressing the result of easily / illegally obtained firearms and mental illness and not doing anything to actually nip it at the bud.
Schools aren't the only public spaces for a shooter to kill people.
just cancel school, then there can be no school shootings
[QUOTE=Alec W;53138298]It is also only addressing the result of easily / illegally obtained firearms and mental illness and not doing anything to actually nip it at the bud.
Schools aren't the only public spaces for a shooter to kill people.[/QUOTE]
There are also many ways a shooter could shoot a school up to get around this... Let do columbine rules and assume there are two heavily armed shooters with kevlar, but now the teachers all have handguns, and there are armed guards.
1. What are teachers going to do when they shoot the guards and have the advantage of better guns? Ok, obviously, a dead shooter isn't going to continue shooting.
2. How do they prevent people from shooting into the windows, will they be able to fit bullet proof glass into the budget for all windows?
3. How do they prevent someone from burning exits to prevent escape? How do you lock a school down? If you locked the doors, students wouldn't be able to get out if the shooters in the school.
4. You spent a huge portion of the budget on security, which means that you can't afford better counselling or books. Students are going to be a lot more stressed out now. Not only are they going to deal with their shitty parents but they're also going to a literal prison.
5. What about weapons that still get through, that can't be detected or are snuck in through unsecured areas.
like I understand this isn't meant to be a perfect solution, but that's what the video acts like. I'm not going to huff my own farts and claim counselling is the best solution either, of course. I still understand that increased security stops and deters it.
VR school is the future.
[QUOTE=shadow_oap;53138310]VR school is the future.[/QUOTE]
[URL="https://gizmodo.com/new-vr-simulation-trains-teachers-how-to-act-during-sch-1821736475"]what happens when a virtual school shooting happens in your VR school[/URL]
[editline]17th February 2018[/editline]
This is the modern equal to 'duck and cover'
[editline]17th February 2018[/editline]
I think the real answer is that we arm ALL students, of all ages head to teeth. If everyone has a gun, everyone can defend themselves.
[QUOTE=J!NX;53138308]There are also many ways a shooter could shoot a school up to get around this... Let do columbine rules and assume there are two heavily armed shooters with kevlar, but now the teachers all have handguns, and there are armed guards.
1. What are teachers going to do when they shoot the guards and have the advantage of better guns? Ok, obviously, a dead shooter isn't going to continue shooting.
2. How do they prevent people from shooting into the windows, will they be able to fit bullet proof glass into the budget for all windows?
3. How do they prevent someone from burning exits to prevent escape? How do you lock a school down? If you locked the doors, students wouldn't be able to get out if the shooters in the school.
4. You spent a huge portion of the budget on security, which means that you can't afford better counselling or books. Students are going to be a lot more stressed out now. Not only are they going to deal with their shitty parents but they're also going to a literal prison.
As a note I understand this isn't meant to be a perfect solution, but that's what the video acts like. I'm not going to huff my own farts and claim counselling is the best solution either, of course. I still understand that increased security stops and deters it.[/QUOTE]
My first high school was very lockdown-centric, heavy security because of gang violence, and it impacted every single student negatively.
We also had extensive lockdown and situation drills periodically. If a student goes through the drills too, the student is going to know how and when to do what.
We already didn't have the money for supplies, supplemental classes, or even half of the sports programs ( which usually get way too much money, as I learned at my second high school )
It's such a complex problem even at the root. We're oversaturated with guns. The more people that have them, the more people want to have them.
I can name 5 places of business within 5 miles where I can acquire illegal weapons, unserialized, for dirt cheap. 3 of which are from "good ol bootstraps america" types.
It's such a huge cultural issue. I hate it. I don't hate guns, I hate the attitude and reasoning and lack of requirements for them. Legally and illegally.
[QUOTE=Alec W;53138318]
We already didn't have the money for supplies, supplemental classes, or even half of the sports programs ( which usually get way too much money, as I learned at my second high school )
[/QUOTE]
At that point home schooling would have been far better tbh. Why even go, even well funded public schools tend to fail kids.
In fact, at that point going directly into work would have been more useful.
Neither are good options, but they'd be better options.
[QUOTE=Alec W;53138318]My first high school was very lockdown-centric, heavy security because of gang violence, and it impacted every single student negatively.
We also had extensive lockdown and situation drills periodically. If a student goes through the drills too, the student is going to know how and when to do what.
We already didn't have the money for supplies, supplemental classes, or even half of the sports programs ( which usually get way too much money, as I learned at my second high school )
It's such a complex problem even at the root. We're oversaturated with guns. The more people that have them, the more people want to have them.
[B]I can name 5 places of business within 5 miles where I can acquire illegal weapons, unserialized, for dirt cheap. 3 of which are from "good ol bootstraps america" types.[/B]
It's such a huge cultural issue. I hate it. I don't hate guns, I hate the attitude and reasoning and lack of requirements for them. Legally and illegally.[/QUOTE]
I sincerely doubt that. some dealers dabbling in stolen guns maybe, but not a place of business.
[QUOTE=J!NX;53138320]At that point home schooling would have been far better tbh. Why even go, even well funded public schools tend to fail kids.
In fact, at that point going directly into work would have been more useful.
Neither are good options, but they'd be better options.[/QUOTE]
A lot of my childhood friends made it out of town with academics. My family moved halfway though my sophomore year.
But I did lose a lot of friends to gangs, drugs, and poverty. A lot of amazing friends. A friend of mine was mistaken for his brother and shot in the head with an unserialized glock at his front door. I've held guns owned by the poorest people and the most wealthy people I have ever met, and there's a weird obsession with them that bridges a gap between self-preservation and fetish.
It's so hard to explain to people my stance because by saying I advocate stricter gun laws, I'm immediately taken as a "take all muh guns" type. Fuck that. 3/4 of the gun owners I know are too fucking stupid to get a Lyft home, yet they're allowed to wield and collect shit more dangerous than them behind the wheel of an explosive powered, steel machine.
Ugh.
[editline]17th February 2018[/editline]
[QUOTE=butre;53138326]I sincerely doubt that. some dealers dabbling in stolen guns maybe, but not a place of business.[/QUOTE]
It's not like they sell guns through their business. I live in Murrieta, CA now, we're just north of Pechanga Indian Reserve.
I was advertised $200 glocks off the reserve from ( the owner of ) a place of business I go into every once in a while.
[ to elaborate, these glocks and other weapons are either de-serialized or actually manufactured on the reserve, and that is a whole entire can of worms on its own ]
I know it sound hard to believe but I can send a text and have a gun. Most people know one or two people who can make that happen. Sketchy as fuck but we all know someone that can get you anything.
I'd much rather a solution that actually addresses how terrible school administrations handle bullying and counseling and not a contingency plan to a worst-case scenario that can be prevented.
[QUOTE=Boaraes;53138335]I'd much rather a solution that actually addresses how terrible school administrations handle bullying and counseling and not a contingency plan to a worst-case scenario that can be prevented.[/QUOTE]
That's definitely another facet of the problem. I think outside of physical safety, treatment and care of students is viewed as black and white by most administrations and districts - though I know a family friend who does counseling at a school and She has mentioned things getting better, and that they're getting more tools and flexibility and authority.
The public school system in the U.S. rides on test scores and meeting curriculum minimums. Teachers are almost always amazing people but any student passing through high school now can feel the bullshit of the system.
[QUOTE=Crimor;53138255]Shoot the students, then no student can shoot up the school :v:[/QUOTE]
Just do it outside a school, otherwise it counts as a school shooting. Which we are trying to prevent.
[QUOTE=Alec W;53138328]
It's so hard to explain to people my stance because by saying I advocate stricter gun laws, I'm immediately taken as a "take all muh guns" type. Fuck that. 3/4 of the gun owners I know are too fucking stupid to get a Lyft home, yet they're allowed to wield and collect shit more dangerous than them behind the wheel of an explosive powered, steel machine.
[/QUOTE]
I usually agree with conservatives on guns when they argue with a left view of it. And by that, I mean, both sides actually think about why they support that side.
But with how some politicians have this almost religious view of reverence, strength and bravery for advocating I can see how the left are frustrated with the argument. People get this whacky idea of them that ends up being incredibly ignorant.
Even then I still would be comfortable with a reasonable level of gun control for locations where its out of hand. Everyone agree's with gun control, just on different levels, and the biggest issue conservatives make is that they usually ignore this outright or strawman the lefts argument to the most extreme version opposite of their own.
This idea of not being allowed to consider it as a serious thing to debate is hilarious and insane.
[QUOTE=butre;53138283]the armed guards are meant to be primarily a deterrent, not the only line of defense.[/QUOTE]
How are they a deterrent? Most school shooters end up doing suicide by cop, when they don't just shoot themselves first. They're not afraid to die. How are armed guards even supposed to change their minds?
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