What about the poor white people who DO live in ghettos? I guess that's too nuanced a viewpoint for a political debate.
Well his entire campaign is about alleviating poverty that affects all people so I think taking single statements as absolutes is a bit silly.
Considering he was poor himself...
Well saying that's not gonna help him...
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49883009]Well his entire campaign is about alleviating poverty that affects all people so I think taking single statements as absolutes is a bit silly.
Considering he was poor himself...[/QUOTE]
Y'know, I find it really interesting how in America there is this massive aversion to helping the poor and homeless. When you talk about helping poor people, you have to sugarcoat it by saying black people, otherwise you get called out for your socialistic endeavors. I even had someone tell me this once, when a liberal politician says "black people" they really mean "poor people" and so I shouldn't get annoyed at them when they make that generalization because I should already know that "black" automatically means "poor".
Pretty much how I expected him to maneuver. After the whole "BernieBro" meme went big and progressive backlash against him increased across the board, he's now under more pressure than ever to make his tone more friendly to the orthodoxy of liberal identity politics. As it turns out, everyone's favorite career politician actually is just a career politician.
Oh god the YouTube comments.
[QUOTE=Zyler;49883007]What about the poor white people who DO live in ghettos? I guess that's too nuanced a viewpoint for a political debate.[/QUOTE]
I think he's talking about how white people don't know what it's like for black people to live in those conditions. I imagine white people who live in the ghetto are treated very differently than blacks.
[QUOTE=Zyler;49883029]Y'know, I find it really interesting how in America there is this massive aversion to helping the poor and homeless. When you talk about helping poor people, you have to sugarcoat it by saying black people, otherwise you get called out for your socialistic endeavors. I even had someone tell me this once, when a liberal politician says "black people" they really mean "poor people" and so I shouldn't get annoyed at them when they make that generalization because I should already know that "black" automatically means "poor".[/QUOTE]
Can you clarify what you mean, because what you said makes very little sense and is an extremely broad generalization for a very diverse country.
[QUOTE=slayer20;49883057]I think he's talking about how white people don't know what it's like for black people to live in those conditions. I imagine white people who live in the ghetto are treated very differently than blacks.[/QUOTE]
Ever been to a trailer park community?
[QUOTE=slayer20;49883057]I think he's talking about how white people don't know what it's like for black people to live in those conditions. I imagine white people who live in the ghetto are treated very differently than blacks.[/QUOTE]
It depends on location, in the low income neighborhood I work/volunteer in there's very little racial tension, yes some people both black and white are racist shitheads but overall it seems calm on that front, besides wealth matters far more than race.
[QUOTE=Hamaflavian;49883046]Pretty much how I expected him to maneuver. After the whole "BernieBro" meme went big and progressive backlash against him increased across the board, he's now under more pressure than ever to make his tone more friendly to the orthodoxy of liberal identity politics. As it turns out, everyone's favorite career politician actually is just a career politician.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's just me but it seems like trying to appeal more to the liberal establishment alienates a portion of his followers to begin with.
[QUOTE=slayer20;49883057]I think he's talking about how white people don't know what it's like for black people to live in those conditions. I imagine [B]white people who live in the ghetto are treated very differently than blacks.[/B][/QUOTE]
Do we know this? Is that the point of a statement like "you don't know what's it's like living in a ghetto" or "you don't know what it's like living in a black community"? That sounds like white people aren't poor and don't live in those communities. If this was an issue two groups of people being treated differently, why would they need to mention location?
[editline]7th March 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=greasemunky;49883060]Can you clarify what you mean, because what you said makes very little sense and is an extremely broad generalization for a very diverse country.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about American Politicians, often when they talk about all black people as if they all live in a ghetto, they do this because they wouldn't be allowed to just talk about poor people without being labeled a socialist. It's unpopular to say you want to help poor people.
You can get away with saying one thing and meaning the other because those two categories of people are the same in a lot of people's eyes. They think that "Black" and "Poor" mean the same thing.
I'm sorry if I can't explain it better, it's a really confusing notion to begin with.
Hilary was smart to not say "are you implying that white people can't be poor?". Let the left cannibalize itself, when otherwise it wouldn't have with a simple explanation on Bernie's part.
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;49883150]Hilary was smart to not say "are you implying that white people can't be poor?". Let the left cannibalize itself, when otherwise it wouldn't have with a simple explanation on Bernie's part.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much, this is going to blow back in bernies face for a lot of reasons, as long as hilary says nothing she can let the GOP/media run with it.
[QUOTE=Tsyolin;49883071]Maybe it's just me but it seems like trying to appeal more to the liberal establishment alienates a portion of his followers to begin with.[/QUOTE]
I'm not really talking about the 'establishment', I'm talking about a set of ideas that enjoys a lot of popularity within the establishment and a fair amount without it. Not all of Bernie Sanders' supporters are anti-big-business/anti-establishment iconoclasts, a lot of them are socially progressive, educated young people who really do buy into all that white male privilege stuff whose support for Sanders is an extension of their distrust for Clinton.
If he doesn't counter the narrative of "Bernie Sanders doesn't understand or care about race issues the way Clinton does" before it mutates into "Bernie Sanders is a racist just like all of the BernieBros who are going to vote for him", then he stands to lose all of those socially progressive voters too. And it's not clear to me that that wouldn't be the greater loss.
Whoever came up with "BernieBro" has done a bang-up job forcing Sanders into a lose-lose scenario.
While I think he didn't phrase his answer correctly, it sounds like he's trying to talk about the wealth gaps between White and Black families for the first part of the question. On average, a White family makes 20x more than the average non-White family. In this sense, yes, most White people will not face the same circumstances that effect Blacks.
[QUOTE=slayer20;49883057]I think he's talking about how white people don't know what it's like for black people to live in those conditions. I imagine white people who live in the ghetto are treated very differently than blacks.[/QUOTE]
As someone of mutt heritage who can pass quite reliably for white thanks to eye and hair color and grew up fuck poor, you haven't the faintest fucking idea what you're talking about.
Not only do you get it for being poor, you get extra for being the wrong race to be poor according to general expectations, cause contrary to populist progressive bloggers, stereotyping occurs everywhere and by anyone/everyone.
[QUOTE=Firespray;49883174]While I think he didn't phrase his answer correctly, it sounds like he's trying to talk about the wealth gaps between White and Black families for the first part of the question. On average, a White family makes 20x more than the average non-White family. In this sense, yes, most White people will not face the same circumstances that effect Blacks.[/QUOTE]
It's more or less that he made a statement using a very broad generalization which leaves out a lot of important information. It's not going to help his campaign regardless how backed those facts may be.
What about the people that are white and poor or have grown up poor? I don't think it's nice to completely dismiss and generalize people like that.
Although incorrect at-least this gives him a better chance at getting the democratic vote in mostly black county's.
I grew up in a ghetto. Ghettto. I have to agree with him. The average white person in the cities are not poor, nor have grown up poor. A lot of youth that aren't white grow up literally on the streets. I had a home, even if i didn't have food.
[QUOTE=Weirdo009;49883232]What about the people that are white and poor or have grown up poor? I don't think it's nice to completely dismiss and generalize people like that.[/QUOTE]
Do they face systematic racism? Do they face being targeted by police more, which leads to more of their time being wasted, more fines being levied against them, and more jail time? Do they face racial prejudices that are still very much alive across this country to varying degrees?
Even if it wasn't Sanders' point at that moment, on average a poor white person is still by far socially better off than a poor black person, and those social disadvantages blacks suffer from ultimately result in economic disadvantages as well.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49883290]Do they face systematic racism? Do they face being targeted by police more, which leads to more of their time being wasted, more fines being levied against them, and more jail time? Do they face racial prejudices that are still very much alive across this country to varying degrees?
Even if it wasn't Sanders' point at that moment, on average a poor white person is still by far socially better off than a poor black person, and those social disadvantages blacks suffer from ultimately result in economic disadvantages as well.[/QUOTE]
The "on average" argument is nice and all but it's usually used to silence poor white people. There are more blacks in poverty due to institutional racism, people in poverty are more likely to commit crimes, places where crime is more like will have harsher policing statistics. There is a lot of straight racism at this end too. But denying that because someone has white skin they haven't experienced the same hardships that came from living in that kind of environment is just disingenuous.
[QUOTE=dark-vivec;49883445]The "on average" argument is nice and all but it's usually used to silence poor white people. There are more blacks in poverty due to institutional racism, people in poverty are more likely to commit crimes, places where crime is more like will have harsher policing statistics. There is a lot of straight racism at this end too. But denying that because someone has white skin they haven't experienced the same hardships that came from living in that kind of environment is just disingenuous.[/QUOTE]
My intent wasn't to diminish the hardships that poor white Americans face. Being poor is terrible, regardless of who you are; it is a large and growing issue that needs to be addressed regardless of skin color or anything else. No one should have to worry about when they will be able to afford their next meal, or if they will have shelter, or so forth.
My intent was to point out two serious issues compound to make an ever bigger issue.
[QUOTE=DaMastez;49883507]My intent wasn't to diminish the hardships that poor white Americans face. Being poor is terrible, regardless of who you are; it is a large and growing issue that needs to be addressed regardless of skin color or anything else. No one should have to worry about when they will be able to afford their next meal, or if they will have shelter, or so forth.
[B]My intent was to point out two serious issues compound to make an ever bigger issue.[/B][/QUOTE]
The problem is the way he handled the question and example he used to answer it is just mystifyingly stupid. Being poor sucks, being a minority can also suck, however just because you are white does not making being poor living in a ghetto/trailer park less sucky. Using BLM and then specifically hitting for the black community also neglects the other minorities and social issues that exist in the US for lower class/poor citizens.
The response is just really bad that the media can have a field day with.
What the fuck, being white has nothing to do with poorness or wealth.
Here's a more factual statement. If you are born anywhere that isn't a third world shithole country you don't know what it's like to be truly poor. Even the poorest American people have high speed internet these days.
Making this a racial statement just boils my blood. I am not sorry for being white, fuck you.
Also Bernie is trying to rally support of the lower class, then why the fuck is he insulting the white lower class? Why not make a statement like "There are a lot of people in America who don't know what it's like to be poor" or something more broad?
If you understand the word ghetto as meaning a specifically black poor neighbourhood then his statement holds. At worst it was a slip of the tongue, certainly not worse than "Super-predators".
it's not saying that white people can't have it shitty, it's saying that there are disadvantages due to race that make being poor AND not white even worse.
majority of sanders voters / if not all who are lower class and white will not misinterpret his statement as offensive to them because they know it to be true.
additionally though i'm a mutt I pass / look white and I grew up in a really poor area that can be considered a ghetto, even so I know for a fact my family and I had an easier time in comparison to those around us of color who were at the same level of poverty.
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;49883583]If you understand the word ghetto as meaning a specifically black poor neighbourhood then his statement holds. At worst it was a slip of the tongue, certainly not worse than "Super-predators".[/QUOTE]
But that's not what ghetto means, ghetto isn't defined by a specific race, generally it is in terms of living conditions.
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