[video=youtube;q-3YhYaau4A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-3YhYaau4A[/video]
This is the fourth video he's uploaded in one year; the madman!
[sp]That ending pun[/sp]
As much as I liked VA-11 Hall-A I have to agree with Matthewmatosis that interaction felt hollow with no real goal apart from paying your rent but given that the creator was living in Venezuela while he was making it (I think he still is?) I wouldn't be surprised if he was going to add more but wasn't able to because of his situation.
So i've not seen the video yet but i already have a good idea what the video is like judging from the thread so far. I'll give it a proper watch when i wake up tomorrow. I've yet to play Papers Please but i've got a good idea of the concept.
But yeah, Vallhalla is great and all and i'll be happy to recommend it to people who i think will enjoy it but when you have a closer inspection under the hood, you'll see that there really isn't much in there as some where lead to believe, for an engine to speak of anyway. It's a small miracle it came out really given the rather unique circumstances. Plus i'd image write all that extra dialogue and such would take up more time if the storyline was set up like the stages from Outrun. Would had been interesting to see but i was more than happy with what i got, even if it felt like it was like a cult classic tv show that got cancelled during it's original air time.
I want to see what those guys are capable of doing next, hopefully they can get out of that shitheap before i end up reading about such talent being lost for no good reason.
It's still my favourite game that came out in 2016 along side Doom. But im not going to lie when i have a hard enough time calling it a "game", it really is a visual novel. But honestly, that's fine because i fucking loved it.
There is nothing wrong with a linear VN, the railroading is clearly meant to allow the writers to tell a story rather than let the player create their own path (and this is totally fine) and this is further emphasized with the totally pointless frills the game offers you like reading danger/u/ and the other stuff on Jill's phone. They're just there for fluff and to immerse yourself in the game (and a really clever way to insert homage to internet culture while staying in-universe)
The video also fails to mention that there are clearly parts where giving the wrong drink or failing to remember customers usual drinks/favorite drinks will cause you to miss out on bonus endings and special dialogue. Virgilio's riddles, remembering Alma's favorite drink, knowing what Dorothy likes when she feels down. Actually if you take a look at the guides people have put together, most characters have preferences that you need to remember.
I'll concede that the system could have probably been more fleshed out but I think it's sufficient to deliver the primary attraction of listening to customer stories. The game was clearly not designed for you to break the game on purpose but honestly that sounds like a pain in the ass considering how many characters and potential paths would need to be written if all choices were considered.
I think for the scope of the game (Game jam project turned into full game) the game is fine. More of the bar could have been shown sure and the drinks system could have been expanded and the ending is kind if wishy washy but that's what sequels are for, right.
[QUOTE=ashxu;51550155]There is nothing wrong with a linear VN, the railroading is clearly meant to allow the writers to tell a story rather than let the player create their own path[/QUOTE]
Matthew's main argument is that Valhalla could have improved itself had it took more inspiration from Papers Please, particularly in making the interactivity—well, more interactive.
He is not saying there is something wrong with a linear VN. At least, I didn't hear that.
Is it bad I recognized some of the characters from Valhalla as Facepunch avatars and not the other way around?
[QUOTE=Dunsparce;51550197]Matthew's main argument is that Valhalla could have improved itself had it took more inspiration from Papers Please, particularly in making the interactivity—well, more interactive.
He is not saying there is something wrong with a linear VN. At least, I didn't hear that.[/QUOTE]
i think he was implying it by saying how little choices matter in the game such as fucking up orders constantly doesn't matter too much. I mean the alternative would be to do a phoenix wright style thing where's you must give the right answer to progress.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51550554]I honestly dont understand the appeal behind anime-styled virtual novels.
Female characters are always portrayed as promiscuous, "cute" (kawaii?), one dimensional characters that pray on your emotions by design. They're always these cutesy cringy "uguu" styled damsels in distress (or the polar opposite of that) to the point that it's extremely difficult to take anything that comes out of their mouth seriously.
It's nothing new, I know, and people have been loving it for ages. But I simply could not for the life of me understand the appeal. And I tried to. I played Katawa Shoujo, it was just a relentless pander to the emotions of fragile, often lonely men, and it was painstakingly obvious - on some level, it even revolted me. There's nothing wrong with losing yourself in fiction, however when that fiction tries to exposition reality or real-life relationships, it should carry with itself a certain amount of responsibility to portray such things honest and true. Yet, these games always fail at this, because they are essentially praying on vulnerable individuals with hopeless fantasies, skewing real life interaction and the perception of relationships by treading a very fine line between reality and fiction - by doing that - blurring said line and retroactively enriching those vulnerabilities.
This game, from the looks of things, suffers from the same faulty design choice. Anime? Kawaii-style? Japanese-inspired? I'm not very sure what the thing I'm peeved about is specifically called. Regardless, and beyond the anti-anime memes, I think it's a real problem.[/QUOTE]
did you even play the fucking game? vallhalla isnt even a dating sim and you don't even play as a dude. You play as a 27 year old female bartender.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51550569]I wasn't talking about the game per se, more about the design choice it uses and why I found it bad.
I just brought up KS as an example.[/QUOTE]
your post is so fucking irrelevant i'm trying to figure out why you posted it then. You created an irrelevant argument to an non-existent topic.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51550569]I wasn't talking about the game per se, more about the design choice it uses and why I found it bad.
I just brought up KS as an example.[/QUOTE]
okay, so you hate a broad style of art design and character tropes used in something besides what the thread is about, and practically tossed the entire value of something under the bus because of it
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51550554]I honestly dont understand the appeal behind anime-styled virtual novels.
Female characters are always portrayed as promiscuous, "cute" (kawaii?), one dimensional characters that pray on your emotions by design. They're always these cutesy cringy "uguu" styled damsels in distress (or the polar opposite of that) to the point that it's extremely difficult to take anything that comes out of their mouth seriously.
It's nothing new, I know, and people have been loving it for ages. But I simply could not for the life of me understand the appeal. And I tried to. I played Katawa Shoujo, it was just a relentless pander to the emotions of fragile, often lonely men, and it was painstakingly obvious - on some level, it even revolted me. There's nothing wrong with losing yourself in fiction, however when that fiction tries to exposition reality or real-life relationships, it should carry with itself a certain amount of responsibility to portray such things honest and true. Yet, these games always fail at this, because they are essentially praying on vulnerable individuals with hopeless fantasies, skewing real life interaction and the perception of relationships by treading a very fine line between reality and fiction - by doing that - blurring said line and retroactively enriching those vulnerabilities.
This game, from the looks of things, suffers from the same faulty design choice. Anime? Kawaii-style? Japanese-inspired? I'm not very sure what the thing I'm peeved about is specifically called. Regardless, and beyond the anti-anime memes, I think it's a real problem.[/QUOTE]
I don't like Vallhalla all that much either but this post is nonsense because it has nothing really relevant to what this particular game is about or like. You just posted an irrelevant rant about Visual Novels of a different subgenre, on to a game that has no relation to it other than superficial similarities.
Good job.
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51550554]I honestly dont understand the appeal behind anime-styled virtual novels.
Female characters are always portrayed as promiscuous, "cute" (kawaii?), one dimensional characters that pray on your emotions by design. They're always these cutesy cringy "uguu" styled damsels in distress (or the polar opposite of that) to the point that it's extremely difficult to take anything that comes out of their mouth seriously.
It's nothing new, I know, and people have been loving it for ages. But I simply could not for the life of me understand the appeal. And I tried to. I played Katawa Shoujo, it was just a relentless pander to the emotions of fragile, often lonely men, and it was painstakingly obvious - on some level, it even revolted me. There's nothing wrong with losing yourself in fiction, however when that fiction tries to exposition reality or real-life relationships, it should carry with itself a certain amount of responsibility to portray such things honest and true. Yet, these games always fail at this, because they are essentially praying on vulnerable individuals with hopeless fantasies, skewing real life interaction and the perception of relationships by treading a very fine line between reality and fiction - by doing that - blurring said line and retroactively enriching those vulnerabilities.
This game, from the looks of things, suffers from the same faulty design choice. Anime? Kawaii-style? Japanese-inspired? I'm not very sure what the thing I'm peeved about is specifically called. Regardless, and beyond the anti-anime memes, I think it's a real problem.[/QUOTE]
you could've said "its bad because i dont like anime artstyles" and you would've gotten the same message across bud
[QUOTE=ashxu;51550579]your post is so fucking irrelevant i'm trying to figure out why you posted it then. You created an irrelevant argument to an non-existent topic.[/QUOTE]
He always fucking does this and it's god damn annoying.
[QUOTE=ashxu;51550155]The video also fails to mention that there are clearly parts where giving the wrong drink or failing to remember customers usual drinks/favorite drinks will cause you to miss out on bonus endings and special dialogue. Virgilio's riddles, remembering Alma's favorite drink, knowing what Dorothy likes when she feels down. Actually if you take a look at the guides people have put together, most characters have preferences that you need to remember.[/QUOTE]
This happens so rarely, though. There are something like 15 days, with 5-10 drinks per day, and I can only remember one more instance aside from the ones you mentioned where the game doesn't blatantly tell you the answer, and that's when Donovan expects you to remember his favourite drink which isn't hard to do because he only ever orders one thing.
Matthew's point is pretty solid, honestly. Why make Va-11 Hall-A a game if the game part is so inconsequential that even doing it wrong barely changes anything?
[QUOTE=Samiam22;51551013]This happens so rarely, though. There are something like 15 days, with 5-10 drinks per day, and I can only remember one more instance aside from the ones you mentioned where the game doesn't blatantly tell you the answer, and that's when Donovan expects you to remember his favourite drink which isn't hard to do because he only ever orders one thing.
Matthew's point is pretty solid, honestly. Why make Va-11 Hall-A a game if the game part is so inconsequential that even doing it wrong barely changes anything?[/QUOTE]
to keep the player engaged just enough that they're not flicking through dialogue all the time. It's also a replacement for choosing options for a dialogue prompt.
it's a visual novel first and foremost and i think that's what you really have to expect...
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51550554]I honestly dont understand the appeal behind anime-styled virtual novels.
Female characters are always portrayed as promiscuous, "cute" (kawaii?), one dimensional characters that pray on your emotions by design. They're always these cutesy cringy "uguu" styled damsels in distress (or the polar opposite of that) to the point that it's extremely difficult to take anything that comes out of their mouth seriously.
It's nothing new, I know, and people have been loving it for ages. But I simply could not for the life of me understand the appeal. And I tried to. I played Katawa Shoujo, it was just a relentless pander to the emotions of fragile, often lonely men, and it was painstakingly obvious - on some level, it even revolted me. There's nothing wrong with losing yourself in fiction, however when that fiction tries to exposition reality or real-life relationships, it should carry with itself a certain amount of responsibility to portray such things honest and true. Yet, these games always fail at this, because they are essentially praying on vulnerable individuals with hopeless fantasies, skewing real life interaction and the perception of relationships by treading a very fine line between reality and fiction - by doing that - blurring said line and retroactively enriching those vulnerabilities.
This game, from the looks of things, suffers from the same faulty design choice. Anime? Kawaii-style? Japanese-inspired? I'm not very sure what the thing I'm peeved about is specifically called. Regardless, and beyond the anti-anime memes, I think it's a real problem.[/QUOTE]
"I haven't read a single one of these cutesy virtual novel things" the post.
[QUOTE=ashxu;51551029]to keep the player engaged just enough that they're not flicking through dialogue all the time. It's also a replacement for choosing options for a dialogue prompt.
it's a visual novel first and foremost and i think that's what you really have to expect...[/QUOTE]
That really doesn't have much to do with what I said. These parts where it isn't spelled out for you are few in number and most of them don't even happen until the tail-end of the game. The overwhelming majority of the time is dialogue being stopped every now and again to press the exact buttons the game tells you to press with no time limit or even anything really to impede you. This is especially jarring in the examples Matthew gives about the underage girl and Donovan.
Also, it should be noted that the Steam store page doesn't really sell it as a visual novel aside from user-submitted tags and user reviews. The developers call it a "booze em 'up" (which sounds like emphasis on the gameplay mechanics to me), and say stuff like "branching storyline" (lol).
[QUOTE=Marbalo;51550554]I honestly dont understand the appeal behind anime-styled virtual novels.
Female characters are always portrayed as promiscuous, "cute" (kawaii?), one dimensional characters that pray on your emotions by design. They're always these cutesy cringy "uguu" styled damsels in distress (or the polar opposite of that) to the point that it's extremely difficult to take anything that comes out of their mouth seriously.
It's nothing new, I know, and people have been loving it for ages. But I simply could not for the life of me understand the appeal. And I tried to. I played Katawa Shoujo, it was just a relentless pander to the emotions of fragile, often lonely men, and it was painstakingly obvious - on some level, it even revolted me. There's nothing wrong with losing yourself in fiction, however when that fiction tries to exposition reality or real-life relationships, it should carry with itself a certain amount of responsibility to portray such things honest and true. Yet, these games always fail at this, because they are essentially praying on vulnerable individuals with hopeless fantasies, skewing real life interaction and the perception of relationships by treading a very fine line between reality and fiction - by doing that - blurring said line and retroactively enriching those vulnerabilities.
This game, from the looks of things, suffers from the same faulty design choice. Anime? Kawaii-style? Japanese-inspired? I'm not very sure what the thing I'm peeved about is specifically called. Regardless, and beyond the anti-anime memes, I think it's a real problem.[/QUOTE]
You can dislike these tropes all you want but unless you've played the game and have a genuine critique you're just cooking up an argument for the sake of it.
This game at its heart is about the writing. The stylistic choice might not be your taste but you clearly miss the point of this game specifically if you just assume it's shit based on character design.
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