That was awesome!! As someone with a huge background in pathology, microbiology and cellular structure / functionality, it's interesting to look back and realize that we had access to, and were actively studying, bacteriophages alongside the first antibiotics (penicillin notably.)
It's unfortunate that most of the medical community of the past had chosen to focus their attention on antibiotics more than bacteriophages, but it's re-assuring (to me, at least) that these roles are starting to reverse as people become more and more aware of - and even experience - antibiotic resistant bacteria.
As someone who has suffered an astounding number of bacterial infections throughout my life, I am [B]eternally[/B] grateful that I've never been ill with a [I]resistant[/I] bacteria. Thank fucking Christ it hasn't happened to me yet, and I hope it doesn't happen to anyone else either. And if it does, I hope they can be saved by these precious, life-saving phages.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52955662]That was awesome!! As someone with a huge background in pathology, microbiology and cellular structure / functionality, it's interesting to look back and realize that we had access to, and were actively studying, bacteriophages alongside the first antibiotics (penicillin notably.)
It's unfortunate that most of the medical community of the past had chosen to focus their attention on antibiotics more than bacteriophages, but it's re-assuring (to me, at least) that these roles are starting to reverse as people become more and more aware of - and even experience - antibiotic resistant bacteria.
As someone who has suffered an astounding number of bacterial infections throughout my life, I am [B]eternally[/B] grateful that I've never been ill with a [I]resistant[/I] bacteria. Thank fucking Christ it hasn't happened to me yet, and I hope it doesn't happen to anyone else either. And if it does, I hope they can be saved by these precious, life-saving phages.[/QUOTE]
They're used a bit more often in the ex-USSR. Russia and Georgia specifically.
The reason they didn't catch on in the west is likely them being too specific. Antibiotics can be used for a whole load of bacteria, so much so in fact that they fuck with our gut flora. Phages though have to be specifically targeted to bacteria strains. In some cases IIRC they even have to be directly created using a swab from the patient. So money and time-wise it just made more sense to work with antibiotics, although now that seems to be reversing.
Although otherwise, it's pretty damn great. Antibiotics suck to take, but phages don't really have bad side effects.
Also being that phages are the kinds of viruses that tend to look like alien machines, that's just a bonus.
Phage therapy won't be as great as many people think it will be. Just like any other antibacterial, bacteria can evolve resistance to them. If they were as widely-used as antibiotics, you can bet that similar levels of resistance would rapidly develop.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52955928]Phage therapy won't be as great as many people think it will be. Just like any other antibacterial, bacteria can evolve resistance to them. If they were as widely-used as antibiotics, you can bet that similar levels of resistance would rapidly develop.[/QUOTE]
Not nearly as rapidly as antibiotic resistance, though. Anything that extends the "deadline" whereupon our antibiotics [I]no longer work[/I] is a breakthrough worth every single penny of research and development. These won't be as great as many people think, they will be [I]better.[/I]
[QUOTE=Quark:;52955973]Not nearly as rapidly as antibiotic resistance, though. Anything that extends the "deadline" whereupon our antibiotics [I]no longer work[/I] is a breakthrough worth every single penny of research and development. These won't be as great as many people think, they will be [I]better.[/I][/QUOTE]
Phages rely on recognition of biomolecules expressed on the surface of the bacterial cell. These can and [I]will[/I] evolve to develop resistance to phages. Resistance just isn't seen in clinical settings because we haven't used phage therapy on a scale anywhere near what we've done with antibiotics. One possible saving grace is that the phages themselves can mutate, and we can exploit that to quickly develop new strains of phages effective against resistant strains. [url="dx.doi.org/10.1038/nrmicro2315"]This short review[/url] covers the phage resistance mechanisms that have been observed in bacteria, and the phages' response to those mechanisms.
I'm all for developing and deploying it in the clinic, but I don't want people to get their hopes up for some kind of magic bullet that will end all bacterial infections.
That's the difference between antibiotics and phages, though. There's only so much you can tweak to the chemical composition of an antibiotic compound while still retaining its antibiotic properties. With phages, you can individually develop them to the biomolecules unique to each bacterial strain.
We can continue to develop these phages for specific bacterial infections with great effectiveness, far more effectively than we can with traditional antibiotics. We will eventually hit a wall with our medicine where we can no longer alter it to be effective, whilst phages will still be effective if properly developed.
[QUOTE=Quark:;52956049]That's the difference between antibiotics and phages, though. There's only so much you can tweak to the chemical composition of an antibiotic compound while still retaining its antibiotic properties. With phages, you can individually develop them to the biomolecules unique to each bacterial strain.
We can continue to develop these phages for specific bacterial infections with great effectiveness, far more effectively than we can with traditional antibiotics. We will eventually hit a wall with our medicine where we can no longer alter it to be effective, whilst phages will still be effective if properly developed.[/QUOTE]
The problem I envision with phage therapy is this: it may well turn out that bacteria develop resistance far faster than we can culture and isolate new strains of phages that can overcome that resistance. Having to repeatedly isolate new strains of phages may prove to be prohibitively expensive and time-consuming. And for all the fear of antibiotic resistance, the ones we have still work remarkably well given how much we've been abusing them. There are also several key biochemical pathways in bacteria that we haven't exploited yet, key ones being certain steps in cell wall synthesis. I'm not so sure that our future with antibiotics is as bleak as the picture you paint.
[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52956077]And for all the fear of antibiotic resistance, the [B]ones we have still work remarkably well given how much we've been abusing them[/B]. There are also several key biochemical pathways in bacteria that we haven't exploited yet, key ones being certain steps in cell wall synthesis. I'm not so sure that our future with antibiotics is as bleak as the picture you paint.[/QUOTE]
No offense but it's exactly this attitude (in the medical community, at least) that has led to the proliferation of superbugs and antibiotic resistant bacterial infections. Doctors rampantly prescribing antibiotics for every sore throat, cold, and fever is accelerating our journey toward the [I]very inevitable[/I] destination of our antibiotics no longer being effective. You may not think our future with antibiotics is as bleak as I do, but facts are facts unfortunately.
I mean its not like you guys are in much practical conflict.
Phage therapy is probably not going to replace antibiotics, but growing interest and costs are making it more feasible.
And antibiotics are unlikely to really go away. There's quite a lot being worked on and since bacteria are in an entirely different domain researchers are not really devoid of potential ways to target them. And for most things we still have working antibiotics, but yeah, people should stop abusing them.
Wait- That's actually what phages look like!? They look like Alien-Spider robots or something. The animation for them also makes them seem exactly like an alien brain sucker or something. That's incredible!
[QUOTE=Quark:;52956096]No offense but it's exactly this attitude (in the medical community, at least) that has led to the proliferation of superbugs and antibiotic resistant bacterial infections. Doctors rampantly prescribing antibiotics for every sore throat, cold, and fever is accelerating our journey toward the [I]very inevitable[/I] destination of our antibiotics no longer being effective. You may not think our future with antibiotics is as bleak as I do, but facts are facts unfortunately.[/QUOTE]
I said it's remarkable because you'd expect far more widespread resistance by now, but as it stands the most troubling strains are restricted to hospital settings. In other words, antibiotics haven't done nearly as badly as they would have, if the situation was as dire as you make it out to be. I agree that some doctors overprescribe antibiotics and that needs to be seriously looked at, but you're saying that antibiotics are done for when they're really not.
[QUOTE=Derpmonster;52956177]Wait- That's actually what phages look like!? They look like Alien-Spider robots or something. The animation for them also makes them seem exactly like an alien brain sucker or something. That's incredible![/QUOTE]
Pretty much yeah, here's a real photo of one made with an electron microscope
[t]http://up-magazine.info/images/0216/bacteriophage2.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Quark:;52956221]Pretty much yeah, here's a real photo of one made with an electron microscope
[t]http://up-magazine.info/images/0216/bacteriophage2.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
Just one order of bacteriophage looks like that though, caudovirales, iirc.
But there's some other cool ones
Like you can drink out of these
[thumb]http://castellolab.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/index.jpg[/thumb]
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