Thank god Phil spencer is shaping xbox up again and has listened or is listening to the cries of the people (You know pc support with some of their games). I have to say if the kinect was perfect or was like at e3 than the kinect would have been revolutionary for the consoles but that didn't happen.
I miss these times. I never laughed so hard in my life.
The Kinect is one of those moments that makes you wonder what the fuck is going through the minds of the people who created it. Especially the minds of the people who wrote those fucking unbelievably cringeworthy stage presentations.
[QUOTE=usaokay;50189818]Say, Jim, whatever happened to the Kinect nowadays? Are there still new games that utilize the awesome power of motion tracking the human body?[/QUOTE]
of course
[video=youtube;O0mjJQ9uExA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0mjJQ9uExA[/video]
Unpopular opinion: I liked the kinect. It was a ton of fun to play, especially with my brother.
On paper, the Kinect wasn't a bad idea, and could've been Microsoft's answer to the Wii Remote (and Sony's attempts to rip it off with the failed Playstation Move controller).
In practice, it was a $100 paperweight for most people that didn't function like it should, and there was basically no killer apps. To the point that the moment an Xbox One package that came without the Kinect was available, the system's sales jumped expotentially (but still haven't equaled up to the PS4).
It says something when the best Kinect usage is typically for third-party stuff for hooking up to the PC for VR and other applications rather than actual 360/XBO games.
Main reason why I hated Kinect was the latency. It was just so awkward to use when everything you did was on a fat delay.
never forget
[video=youtube;KWbLOFGSEDo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWbLOFGSEDo[/video]
The kinect is actually a really cool piece of technology. It's just terrible for videogames, especially with the latency.
[QUOTE=RikohZX;50189905][B]On paper, the Kinect wasn't a bad idea[/B], and could've been Microsoft's answer to the Wii Remote (and Sony's attempts to rip it off with the failed Playstation Move controller).
In practice, it was a $100 paperweight for most people that didn't function like it should, and there was basically no killer apps. To the point that the moment an Xbox One package that came without the Kinect was available, the system's sales jumped expotentially (but still haven't equaled up to the PS4).
It says something when the best Kinect usage is typically for third-party stuff for hooking up to the PC for VR and other applications rather than actual 360/XBO games.[/QUOTE]
I'm going to have to completely disagree with this. The problem with the Kinect wasn't a lack of killer apps, it wasn't the latency, and it wasn't the fact that it has problems tracking people if they move in weird ways, though those are/were problems it suffered. The problem with Kinect, and the Wii and Playstation Move to a lesser extent, is that the human body is a fucking terrible controller. Humans are tool using creatures, we make tools so we can do things that we can't do normally and a controller is no different.
By constraining control to the motions of the human body you put an unreasonable constraint on the mechanical complexity and artistic freedom of a game. You have a number of problems when you do this. You have the issue that regular people aren't physically capable of doing most of the things their characters do in games, meaning you have to either map the character movements directly to player movement making everything look awkward and restricted, or you have to use the player's movement as an approximation of commands for the character to execute in which case it just becomes a more clumsy way of doing what controllers already do perfectly.
You also greatly limit the possible types of games to ones which emulate human motions, meaning anything where you do complex movements or precision movements are entirely out of the question. You couldn't possibly control a character action game or a strategy game with the Kinect. Even games which were designed with Kinect's limitations in mind had issues with the device not correctly recognising player actions at times.
The main problem with Kinect is that it is a backwards 'solution' to a problem that has been solved from the very beginning, though a fundamental misunderstanding of what the 'barrier' to entry is. The basic idea behind Kinect, and all motion controls, is that a player should be immersed and that there should be nothing standing between the player and the game. What the developers saw as the barrier between the player and the game is the controller, when in reality the controller is the key connection for the player and the game. The most important thing to immersion is the transformation of thoughts into actions, you want to shoot the gun and the gun shoots, you want to kick the ball and the ball is kicked. With a controller the time between thought and action is minimal, you think, you push button, character acts. With a motion controller you extend the time and effort between thought and action and almost universally receive an inferior result, you think, you perform a motion, the character tries to mimic or extrapolate that movement.
As far as a piece of technology the Kinect is pretty cool, but as a gaming device it is flawed in its very concept. And that's not to say all motion controls are garbage, the motion controllers for VR headsets are a much smarter implementation of the technology. Rather than being used as a replacement for a controller they transform the controller into an extension of the player's hands. They are used to place the player in the game world rather than turning the player into a marionettist in control of a digital marionette. Though I'm not personally sold on VR I can at least respect the transformation of failed concepts the Occulus and Vive are attempting to do.
I always thought the kinect was useless even for the most casual use. Not mentioning that the games were shit, let's say I just want to use it simple, for star trek style controlling of the console. What I would do to test it, is I would go to the far end of the room, and say loudly, and clearly, "XBOX, TURN OFF", repeating slowly, and walking slowly towards the console. 9 times out of 10 I could turn the console off faster than the Kinect.
It really was, even in it's second generation, a pathetic piece of shit that almost nobody actually wanted, a failed response to the Wii which has in the long term been a failure as well (since the WiiU is such a flop).
Just get motion controls the fuck out of here, nobody wants them and no game dev wants to develop for them. Like, I can't name you a third party WiiU game that uses motion controls, aside from like ZombiU. Even when you look for a Nintendo game, Smash doesn't use it, Mario doesn't use it, Kirby doesn't use it, I think Splatoon has it but I'm sure it'd be fine or improved without it. It just seems barely used an unnecessary, and frankly, it shouldn't have taken us a full decade to realize it. Fuckin' 1990s, virtual boy comes out and shit gets canned immediately because nobody liked it.
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;50190234]uh
what
are you lumping the gyroscope in with motion controls? that's really asinine. gyroscopic aiming using the gamepad is fucking amazing. splatoon does it great. do you even know what you're talking about?? wii u games don't make you shake the fucking gamepad or something, dude.
[editline]bepis[/editline]
also the wii was one of the best selling consoles ever made?? the wii U being a ""flop"" doesn't make the wii a failure
[editline]bepis 2: electric bepaloo[/editline]
also what does the virtual boy have to do with anything??????????? i am so confused[/QUOTE]
Contain your question marks, and I'll explain. I'm not talking about the gyroscope thing (I'm presuming that's the aim the controller around to aim thing I wouldn't know I've never heard people call it that), I'm talking about the stupid wagglesticks they insist on that are just as good for shoving up your ass. The WiiU still uses these for anyone who doesn't want to use the big fatass unwieldy shit tablet. From my casually observant perspective, very few modern games seem to use that, sticking almost entirely to d-pad and 1 2 or forcing you to use the tablet or one of those close to actually normal controllers. My point is that the Wii as a collective grouping of consoles, the success of which inspired the motion controls shitshow we've been subject to for a decade, didn't seem to have lasting appeal even on their own, considering the poor sales. Long term, the Wii consoles appear to have ended up failures, not necessarily in the monetary sense either.
Also the virtual boy was a gimmick that quickly failed and was shunted out the door, hence why I brought it up, because these days even if something is dog shit they seem to just double down on shoving it down our throats for such a long, extended period of time.
[Editline]e[/editline]
And yes I'm aware the first wii sold more units than everyone else
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;50190332]Barely any Wii U games use the Wii Remote and Nunchuk. [i]Barely any.[/i]
The Wii U Gamepad is not unwieldy or shit. You would know this if you actually used one.
The Wii U Pro Controller is not "close to actually normal", it [i]is[/i] normal. It's, like, nearly exactly the same as a 360 or PS3 controller.
...What the hell does "lasting appeal [i]even on their own[/i]" mean?
Once again, [i]pretty much no Wii U games [b]even support the Remote and Nunchuk.[/b][/i][/QUOTE]
That's...my point, though.
Also i have a wiiu, and a wii, and the tablet, and the remote and nunchuck, and the pro controller. I've used them all. They all suck dick.
And even then, the nuncuks on the original wii worked perfectly fine [i]most of the time[/i]
[QUOTE=Mister Sandman;50190348]That's...my point, though.
Also i have a wiiu, and a wii, and the tablet, and the remote and nunchuck, and the pro controller. I've used them all. They all suck dick.[/QUOTE]
ohhhhhhhhhh boy, You do [B][I][U]NOT[/U][/I][/B] talk shit about the Pro controller. It's the perfect mix it's comfortable and responsive as all hell.
[QUOTE=Dantz Bolrew;50190368]And even then, the nuncuks on the original wii worked perfectly fine [i]most of the time[/i][/QUOTE]
How is this an acceptable thing? If you had a controller and one of the buttons worked "most of the time" you'd fucking be pissed off with it and want a new controller. Imagine you had to write a college thesis on a keyboard where the E key worked "most of the time", it'd drive you fucking crazy.
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;50190359]Okay, markedly ridiculous slamming of the Wii U Gamepad and the Pro Controller (the Pro Controller is nearly identical to every other console's controllers...) aside, I guess I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. I thought you were slamming the Wii U for having the Remote as a control option.[/QUOTE]
No, I was talking more that the kickstart of motion controls has these as options, but they aren't using them, presumably because they're just bad or because developers don't like making games for them.
Although apparently I might be mistaken on my controller. I can't post it because I'm sat in a blackout (Fort Worth where I am apparrntly is having some massive blackout right now), but I've got some other weird little thing. I think it was the original wii's 'controller option'. I found it tiny and awkward to use.
By the way don't take this as me hating the wii because wiiu imo is the best console available right now
I never really felt an issue with the gamepad. I have big hands so I always felt very comfortable using it.
I got the kinect as a christmas gift and I've used it only a couple of times, now I have no idea where it is :v:
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;50190389]I don't recall the Remote or Nunchuk ever not working perfectly fine.[/QUOTE]
I played the Wii version of Twilight Princess that a friend lent me and the motion controls would work about 90% of the time. I never finished the game because having the character not respond when I did an action was infuriating. It has been a problem in every Wii game I've played, with every Wiimote I've used.
Snip
I remember when Kinect had that really pretentious and weird Cirque du Soleil premiere event.
If I recall right, they could've proved it around $50-$100 and still been profitable, but they priced it at $150 to make it feel more like a new console launch as well as to cover the rediculous marketing costs.
[QUOTE=NoNameForEvil;50190423]That is incredibly far from the truth, dude. A few of Nintendo's first-party games (Smash, Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World) support the Wii Remote as an alternative control method, but only a few require it. The only ones that come to mind are Nintendoland, which requires it for like 2 minigames, and I think Mario Party 10's multiplayer, which makes other players use Wiimotes.
More games support the Pro Controller.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I meant and I was replying to someone else. Of course almost e every game supports the Pro Controller. I own 4 of them and don't buy games that don't support it.
people in this thread telling other people how to feel about controllers and how comfortable they are
guys
please
[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;50190402]I played the Wii version of Twilight Princess that a friend lent me and the motion controls would work about 90% of the time. I never finished the game because having the character not respond when I did an action was infuriating. It has been a problem in every Wii game I've played, with every Wiimote I've used.[/QUOTE]
Everyone I know who played Twilight Princess on the Wii never had any issues, and most people never having much problem with Skyward Sword.
Not only did TP on the Wii play insufferably for me because it felt just plain awkward and unresponsive, but SS wanted to recalibrate every five minutes and never let me have my peace, sometimes outright fucking up. Although someone in a Wii U general thread figures that might be because of the Motionplus add-on for the Wiimote itself being the problem, instead of just a Wiimote with Motionplus built-in which supposedly works smooth as butter. Beyond these two just about every other Wii game worked responsively on the same Wiimote.
In terms of the Kinect itself, though, honestly I can't say much. My sister wanted to get one for our 360, but it was always too expensive, and by the time any of us could've really wanted to buy it, all the games that had come out were complete garbage and the 360 had long fallen into the dust pits of my home, so no one cared anymore.
The best thing to come out of the Kinect was using it in Gmod.
[QUOTE=usaokay;50189818]Say, Jim, whatever happened to the Kinect nowadays? Are there still new games that utilize the awesome power of motion tracking the human body?[/QUOTE]
It's actually used quite a bit outside of gaming. The use of gestures and detailed 3d scanning is pretty valuable for a large number of applications. Even groups like NASA nasa using it, often in tandem with VR ([url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/31/nasa-uses-kinect-and-oculus-rift-to-control-a-robotic-arm[/url]).
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50190596]It's actually used quite a bit outside of gaming. The use of gestures and detailed 3d scanning is pretty valuable for a large number of applications. Even groups like NASA nasa using it, often in tandem with VR ([url]http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/31/nasa-uses-kinect-and-oculus-rift-to-control-a-robotic-arm[/url]).[/QUOTE]
That's been happening since the 360 though, right?
I'm surprise very few Xbox One games capitalized on its utilities without making the entire game into a gimmicky mess.
Honestly, Kinect itself is a serious piece of tech. Combined with VR it can create an amazing experience.
But considering how cringeworthy it was presented on E3's and how poorly it was utilized (Kinect Star Wars explains it better than I ever will), it's no wonder everyone hates it.
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