I'm not even a fourth into the video but that polar opposite thinking of who Master Chief is and who he should be to the player is mind blowing. "Missing the point" doesn't seem to cover it.
I don't know, I mean 343 have made lots of stupid mistakes with Halo, but this video mostly seems to be cherrypicking parts from videos to make 343 look like they are doing everything wrong without actually showing the games themselves to see if they ARE doing everything wrong.
EDIT: Yeah, this really isn't a fair comparison. I mean, a lot of the stuff that Bungie apparently did so well in Halo 3 was thrown out in Halo Reach (water, equipment, etc.) Plus, he's also wrong about the whole ironsight thing since it doesn't function like COD's ironsights.
He is right about some things though (splitscreen, art direction and the story)
3:08
343 flat out saying a dissolve effect is some new, innovative, never before seen thing
What
The complete shift in the art direction from the original five seconds in the future gritty war of Halo 1 - 3 and Reach to 343s super futuristic overly designed everything is what killed it for me and I find it to be a pretty good example of why I don't really like 343. They decided they'd completely reinvent Halo when they took over and they broke off some of the best parts of the series in doing so. There still isn't any sci-fi games that really capture the same feeling. Everything that goes sci-fi is either modern with some gadgets or so futuristic that it's completely alien.
[QUOTE=usaokay;51004813]The problems were trying to give more backstory and humanizing the Master Chief; and fucking up Halo 5's story where the overarching plot was about said Chief but it focuses on Locke & Friends.[/QUOTE]
About 80% of the problems with 343's Halo games would be fixed if Brian Reed was fired and replaced with someone who was actually competent.
i miss bungie making halo games
I was hoping Halo would move away from Spartans, and maybe explore some parts of the Human Covenant War. Something like ODST but where you have no shields and the fighting gets a lot more brutal, really throw the war at you. Or if they wanted to keep with the badass route, follow some of the other Spartan teams through the war or something.
HALO : U.N.S.C Marine Edition you mean
"This needs to be fun before it's pretty."
Every game needs to follow this rule.
Man those old bungie vidocs give some insane nostalgia. Would've been cool for Bungie to continue on Halo after the contract expired but they really didn't want to be associated anymore. I'm guessing they thought they'd break the magic after 5 halos.
Bungie is only now finally turning back into the Bungie of old with the most recent 2 big expansions for destiny; but they are definitely different now
I'm not the biggest Halo fan but I've played them all except 4 (which I saw a playthrough of) and for me it really did start going off the rails with 4, the whole Forerunner thing, the didact. Just a bunch of off the wall stuff that took away from what Halo was to me: An underdog UNSC rallying behind a supersoldier in badass armor fighting aliens that seem to be a genuine, relateable foe, with the constant background threat of the Flood. I feel like the events of 3 rounded out the story nicely but 343 couldn't let things lie, they had to springboard off the Legendary ending into a whole new story of wacky adventures for the chief to get to where we are now, a story that doesn't even feel like Halo at this point.
Again, not the biggest fan of the series so I don't follow it terribly closely and I don't read any of the books or watched any of the movies, maybe I'm missing something here, it just doesn't really feel like Halo to me anymore. Multiplayer is still pretty fun though.
[QUOTE=usaokay;51004948]People said they improved the shit out of Destiny with the expansions, but do I really want to shell out $60 more for a game I found more boring than Borderlands 2's post-endgame?[/QUOTE]
I stopped playing TTK once I got to the part where I could only progress via doing raids, but I feel like I got well over $60 from it. Considering getting the next expansion but I really don't want to have to pay for PS+ on top of that.
[QUOTE=usaokay;51004948]People said they improved the shit out of Destiny with the expansions, but do I really want to shell out $60 more for a game I found more boring than Borderlands 2's post-endgame?[/QUOTE]
I don't recommend it. I'd only recommend playing it for The Taken King and the new Rise of Iron DLC because the story does actually have that bungie charm again in TTK. I'm mostly interested in the Rise of Iron because they finally left last gen consoles behind (which is probably the reason the game was so limited before)
It's a toss up really; if you didn't like it before you probably won't like it much more now. But I like that they are atleast taking the singleplayer more seriously and actually making the story progress and have made many quality of life fixes to the game
[QUOTE=Raidyr;51004947]Again, not the biggest fan of the series so I don't follow it terribly closely and I don't read any of the books or watched any of the movies, maybe I'm missing something here, it just doesn't really feel like Halo to me anymore. Multiplayer is still pretty fun though.[/QUOTE]
Honestly this is one of the (MANY) things I hate the most about 343's games. Bungie did a fantastic fucking job of having the game's story and the backstory be separate but complete. You didn't need to read some book to fully understand the story in the games, you got the full experience by just playing the campaigns... but the books were there if you wanted to know more. 343 just said fuck it and made the books have some really important plot details or background on the characters and world.
[QUOTE=Skyward;51004967]Honestly this is one of the (MANY) things I hate the most about 343's games. Bungie did a fantastic fucking job of having the game's story and the backstory be separate but complete. You didn't need to read some book to fully understand the story in the games, you got the full experience by just playing the campaigns... but the books were there if you wanted to know more. 343 just said fuck it and made the books have some really important plot details or background on the characters and world.[/QUOTE]
[sp] the fact that Rookie from ODST dies in a comic in a pretty shitty way made me pretty unhappy, especially that it was canon [/sp]
I think the best example of the art direction going off the deepend is the UNSC's logo:
[t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/3/3a/Perfect_White_UNSC_logo.png[/t]
Relatively simple, very similar to modern insignias like that of the United Nations or especially the United States Marines. You can see this being printed on thousands of tanks / crates and whatever else, or easily put on a flag. Most importantly, it looks like something an actual military would actually use.
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/3/3c/Halo_4_ENSA_Logo.png/revision/latest?cb=20131103091217[/t]
What.
It keeps the basic idea but it looks completely alien to any symbology we have on Earth. Between the phoenix's wings to the overly designed shield, wand other stuff like the random i with a star between the U and N or the weird circle they replaced the globe that matches the UMSC's logo to something that looks like it's from Star Trek, it's completely alien. You can't really see any organization adopting this in a serious manner. How do you hand draw this symbol? How much more expensive is it to print [I]this[/I] over and over? Why is it so complicated?
The comments section
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9XNma9c.png[/IMG]
Oh VNN, you silly rascal...
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51004996]I think the best example of the art direction going off the deepend is the UNSC's logo:
[t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/3/3a/Perfect_White_UNSC_logo.png[/t]
Relatively simple, very similar to modern insignias like that of the United Nations or especially the United States Marines. You can see this being printed on thousands of tanks / crates and whatever else, or easily put on a flag. Most importantly, it looks like something an actual military would actually use.
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/3/3c/Halo_4_ENSA_Logo.png/revision/latest?cb=20131103091217[/t]
What.
It keeps the basic idea but it looks completely alien to any symbology we have on Earth. Between the phoenix's wings to the overly designed shield, wand other stuff like the random i with a star between the U and N or the weird circle they replaced the globe that matches the UMSC's logo to something that looks like it's from Star Trek, it's completely alien. You can't really see any organization adopting this in a serious manner. How do you hand draw this symbol? How much more expensive is it to print [I]this[/I] over and over? Why is it so complicated?[/QUOTE]
They did this with fucking everything. Nothing that is Forerunner in 343's games looks like anything in the past games, and they've consistently retconned the major interesting parts of the history that now Humans were older than the covenant and fought the Forerunner.
[QUOTE=Dr. Kyuros;51005024]The comments section
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9XNma9c.png[/IMG]
Oh VNN, you silly rascal...[/QUOTE]
Shame that people are replying with "KYS"
Sure some of his content is shit and hes made mistakes but its not a reason to tell people to kill themselves, even if its the edgy youtube comment section
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51004996]I think the best example of the art direction going off the deepend is the UNSC's logo:
[t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/3/3a/Perfect_White_UNSC_logo.png[/t]
Relatively simple, very similar to modern insignias like that of the United Nations or especially the United States Marines. You can see this being printed on thousands of tanks / crates and whatever else, or easily put on a flag. Most importantly, it looks like something an actual military would actually use.
[t]http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/halo/images/3/3c/Halo_4_ENSA_Logo.png/revision/latest?cb=20131103091217[/t]
What.
It keeps the basic idea but it looks completely alien to any symbology we have on Earth. Between the phoenix's wings to the overly designed shield, wand other stuff like the random i with a star between the U and N or the weird circle they replaced the globe that matches the UMSC's logo to something that looks like it's from Star Trek, it's completely alien. You can't really see any organization adopting this in a serious manner. How do you hand draw this symbol? How much more expensive is it to print [I]this[/I] over and over? Why is it so complicated?[/QUOTE]
the top one looks like a military insignia
the bottom one looks like it's trying to advertise a new toy to me
[QUOTE=TheBloodyNine;51004996]I think the best example of the art direction going off the deepend is the UNSC's logo:
[t]http://www.halopedia.org/images/3/3a/Perfect_White_UNSC_logo.png[/t]
Relatively simple, very similar to modern insignias like that of the United Nations or especially the United States Marines. You can see this being printed on thousands of tanks / crates and whatever else, or easily put on a flag. Most importantly, it looks like something an actual military would actually use.[/QUOTE]
It's funny because there's been at least one time where the UNSC logo was mistakenly used on a new broadcast. I've also heard at least one anecdote of someone being approached wearing a UNSC t-shirt and being mistaken for military. I miss the rugged practical design of all the human tech in Halo, it had just enough future in it to be interesting while not being too alien or unfamilliar.
The art design of the 343 games is what really kills it for me.
The bungie ones have this grounded futuristic military feel to it, where shit does look scifi, but practical.
343 art is so...generic looking? I don't know how to explain it. I look at it and it doesn't conjurer up images of Halo games.
I also think the cutscenes in 343 games being pre-rendered ultra high quality CGI doesn't help either. It's jarring going back and forth from them, and the engine doesn't look shitty either, so the cutscenes being in engine wouldn't feel like that much of a compromise.
I don't want to defend the storytelling in 343 halo because it isn't anything amazing (and their forerunner focus is annoying because they are incredibly boring main villains), but seriously?
Have any of you played Halo 3 recently?
I find it so funny bungie purists put the narrative of that game on a pedestal when it jumps all over the place, is still steeped in cartoonish early 2000's era cinematic design, and is full of crazy plot holes throughout the entire game. It "finishes the fight" in a way that makes zero sense to how they established the cannon in past games. Anyone who plays through all three games back to back like I recently did instead of viewing it with teenager rose colored glasses will know what I'm talking about.
Good job you blew up the arc which exists outside the galaxy. Somehow this magically rids the entire galaxy of the flood and magically stops all conflict from happening between humans and covenant. And even then, this is absurd because Halo was never designed to kill the flood - it was designed to kill things the flood feeds on (people??). How does activating the arc and blowing it up with a bunch of flood on it stop all the flood in the galaxy?
The entire plot of the game is "Oh crazy covenant gonna activate all of halo by teleporting to the Arc via earth! We gotta chase them! Oh hey the whole gang is here! Oh hey looks like the flood are joining the party too lol!". They set up the plot of the game where everyone magically ends up in the same place for you to blow them up, and this somehow saves the galaxy.
Halo 3 was so far removed from being some kind of high art of video game storytelling it isn't even funny.
I don't hate that 343 chose to take the series in a different direction because it'd be stupid to just literally copy+paste bungee halo. I don't like their direction very much, but the main arguements I hear against 343 all the time ("boo they changed the art direction slightly :(" "boo their story focus is different :(") are terrible reasons to say that 343 "ruined" halo.
What would have been cool is more stuff like the Sanghelio mission in Halo 5, but stretched to be the focus throughout most of the games instead of focusing on some generic forerunner bad guy. Covenant civil war, rising galactic tensions, corruption in the marines, etc. That's interesting material, and still is a nice internal-threat contrast to the first three games which were all about external threat. They can still keep their forerunner bullshit in but I think it would have worked way better as a point of mystery in the background (a subtle "true threat") instead of what drives the plot.
[QUOTE=kapin_krunch;51005095]The art design of the 343 games is what really kills it for me.
The bungie ones have this grounded futuristic military feel to it, where shit does look scifi, but practical.
343 art is so...generic looking? I don't know how to explain it. I look at it and it doesn't conjurer up images of Halo games.
I also think the cutscenes in 343 games being pre-rendered ultra high quality CGI doesn't help either. It's jarring going back and forth from them, and the engine doesn't look shitty either, so the cutscenes being in engine wouldn't feel like that much of a compromise.[/QUOTE]
Even when they try to model the classic old stuff, it doesn't look right
[t]https://cdnb1.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/866/013/large/airborn-studios-h5-a090-marmo.jpg?1453975533[/t]
This is supposed to be the Halo 1 Armor. It looks like a bootleg toy compared to the original design.
[QUOTE=kapin_krunch;51005095]The art design of the 343 games is what really kills it for me.
The bungie ones have this grounded futuristic military feel to it, where shit does look scifi, but practical.
343 art is so...generic looking? I don't know how to explain it. I look at it and it doesn't conjurer up images of Halo games.
I also think the cutscenes in 343 games being pre-rendered ultra high quality CGI doesn't help either. It's jarring going back and forth from them, and the engine doesn't look shitty either, so the cutscenes being in engine wouldn't feel like that much of a compromise.[/QUOTE]
The new halo games are what happens when you take the lovechild of one set of designers, then throw it to a new set of designers whose only link to the previous designers is that they're fanboys.
They took the series, wrote some fan-fiction for the new games, and then made it into generic 2010 sci-fi to mesh it with a new audience that didn't want it. The game's design is so by-the-numbers standard hollywood that its baffling they haven't been sued for copying black ops and elysium.
[QUOTE=StrykerE;51005104]Even when they try to model the classic old stuff, it doesn't look right
[t]https://cdnb1.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/866/013/large/airborn-studios-h5-a090-marmo.jpg?1453975533[/t]
This is supposed to be the Halo 1 Armor[/QUOTE]
atleast the reach armors look pretty much the same; but yeah that armor looks weird
dunno why they decided to outsouce the creation of the armor to a different company
[QUOTE=KorJax;51005102]I don't want to defend the storytelling in 343 halo because it isn't anything amazing (and their forerunner focus is annoying because they are incredibly boring main villains), but seriously?
Have any of you played Halo 3 recently?
I find it so funny bungie purists put the narrative of that game on a pedestal when it jumps all over the place, is still steeped in cartoonish early 2000's era cinematic design, and is full of crazy plot holes throughout the entire game. It "finishes the fight" in a way that makes zero sense to how they established the cannon in past games. Anyone who plays through all three games back to back like I recently did instead of viewing it with teenager rose colored glasses will know what I'm talking about.
Good job you blew up the arc which exists outside the galaxy. Somehow this magically rids the entire galaxy of the flood and magically stops all conflict from happening between humans and covenant. And even then, this is absurd because Halo was never designed to kill the flood - it was designed to kill things the flood feeds on (people??). How does activating the arc and blowing it up with a bunch of flood on it stop all the flood in the galaxy?
The entire plot of the game is "Oh crazy covenant gonna activate all of halo by teleporting to the Arc via earth! We gotta chase them! Oh hey the whole gang is here! Oh hey looks like the flood are joining the party too lol!". They set up the plot of the game where everyone magically ends up in the same place for you to blow them up, and this somehow saves the galaxy.
Halo 3 was so far removed from being some kind of high art of video game storytelling it isn't even funny.[/QUOTE]
I play it like once a year or two.
I have no idea where you're coming from with this. The cinematics in Halo 3 are absolutely fantastic and stand the test of time. They're not going to win the Academy Award but they convey feeling very well. The opening of the Covenant sends chills down my spine to this day. When you destroy the AA cannon in the battle of Earth and the ship's move in to hit the Forerunner structure, you're filled with this bombastic sense of "FUCK YEAH HUMANITY"
The story is fairly tight, I honestly can't think of too many plotholes. Sure it uses Halo's classic movie-like suspension of disbelief to have everything happen as it does but that's hardly anything to fault it for and I wouldn't really call them plotholes.
The Ark was added so that they could settle the Halo issue. Before then we knew that there were multiple rings, how would they be able to end the war if there were still a dozen rings to chase around? Would we blow up each one? The Ark was a convenient way to have all of them settled at once. Perfect? No, but I hardly ever felt like it was horribly out of place. By Halo 3, the Forerunners and the past were still mysterious enough that it worked.
And why wouldn't the Flood be there for the party. They have a vested interest in stopping the Covenant and then getting to the Ark.
The flood aren't completely extinguished, nobody ever said they were. However the main chunk of their horde was destroyed, the infestation on Earth was wiped out by the glassing and the Gravemind was killed which sent them back aways. They mention hunting down possible infestations in Halo 4, and Halo 3 never said for sure that we saw the end of them, just their main threat was gone.
[QUOTE=KorJax;51005102]I don't hate that 343 chose to take the series in a different direction because it'd be stupid to just literally copy+paste bungee halo. I don't like their direction very much, but the main arguements I hear against 343 all the time ("boo they changed the art direction slightly :(" "boo their story focus is different :(") are terrible reasons to say that 343 "ruined" halo.[/QUOTE]
You're really oversimplifying a lot of arguments against the games because you like them. They changed the art direction slightly? Have you seen the games? Literally every single model was changed. I can show you any single item, weapon, vehicle, character, ship, symbol, faction, whatever between Halo 3/Reach and 4 and show you exactly how the art design went downhill.
Their story focus is different? People think that 343's writing is pisspoor, their stories way too large in scope with far too little explanation (unlike previous Halo's which you could understand jsut by playing) and that the characterization of the Master Chief and their fanboy like attachment to him is draining the story. They're not just going "boohoo the story is slightly different"
The redesign of Mjolnir shows how far they've gone from the original art design.
[T]https://u.pomf.is/mvpwcv.jpg[/T]
It went from a rugged, simple suit of armor that puts use and practicality over all else to something that looks like a Crysis nanosuit with some metal bits stuck on. It has so much greeble that it doesn't look practical as something that can withstand the harshness of battle. Compare the shoes, the old had a solid metal boot that maximizes protection and simplicity, the new is made out of a multitude of parts that are all hanging onto the undersuit, it barely provides protection and look like they will fall off as soon as the 1000ld soldier starts running.
[QUOTE=StrykerE;51005104]Even when they try to model the classic old stuff, it doesn't look right
[t]https://cdnb1.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/001/866/013/large/airborn-studios-h5-a090-marmo.jpg?1453975533[/t]
This is supposed to be the Halo 1 Armor. It looks like a bootleg toy compared to the original design.[/QUOTE]
Holy shit that looks so bad
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