• Target Shoplifter Apprehensions
    114 replies, posted
Hey, so I've been enjoying these for a long time and figured they're interesting enough to share with FP. These are some videos of Target Asset Protection guys apprehending shoplifters and what not. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zraLOHAjpUc[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25PEe_BU0Sg[/media] I work in Loss Prevention/Asset Protection so if you have any questions just throw them out there.
so do you just sit there staring at people all day or
[QUOTE=Judas;44838121]so do you just sit there staring at people all day or[/QUOTE] Yeah, basically. You just watch cameras or walk the floor and stalk people who are acting shifty. At my new job I'm literally the Retail NSA and spend half the week spying on my co-workers. There are audits, checklists and other paperwork involved. Responding to medical emergencies and stuff like that. To clarify I was AP at Best Buy and I'm LP at Burlington Coat Factory now. I worked at Target for awhile, but I wasn't AP but I did get to see them operate on occasion.
That fuckin dude who just tried walking out with a flatscreen, what was he thinking Did he just assume no one would care?
[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;44838149]That fuckin dude who just tried walking out with a flatscreen, what was he thinking Did he just assume no one would care?[/QUOTE] To be fair people have gotten away with it before.
I used to work in retail and our policy was to never prevent people from leaving through force (for reasons of liability, I believe). Does this vary on a state basis?
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;44838168]I used to work in retail and our policy was to never prevent people from leaving through force (for reasons of liability, I believe). Does this vary on a state basis?[/QUOTE] I'm sure it varies by state and local legislature. But most shoplifters don't know this and willingly give up their rights and surrender which makes it null and void for anyone trying to argue that they were unlawfully detained. As someone who had shoplifted occasionally in my youth (not even because I didn't have the money, I was just an idiot) it is actually surprisingly easy to do it undetected in most chain stores depending on how little the employees are paid and how much the store pays for surveillance/guards. Stores that deal heavily in electronics, like Target, are definitely not worth the risk because the only products you could probably get away with are ones that are so cheap they don't tag/watch and definitely aren't worth getting caught over.
[QUOTE=ChristopherB;44838168]I used to work in retail and our policy was to never prevent people from leaving through force (for reasons of liability, I believe). Does this vary on a state basis?[/QUOTE] What store? It will vary a bit by State but it's mostly up to the retailer to decide. There are many ways to go about it, most retailers prefer to do apprehensions and stops as discreetly as possible to prevent disruption to the sales floor. So you have places like Best Buy who have a strict no-contact policy and are discouraged from actually performing apprehensions and can't leave the store. They prefer to cause a deterrence by putting the AP at the front door where they're visible and scaring shoplifters into ditching product they're trying to steal. Sears, Macy's and Target believe in apprehensions but vary on how they do it. Macy's has all undercover LP and prefer to let shoplifters steal and than apprehend them and prosecute them. They let them use handcuffs and usually use civil demand to get their shit back, sometimes on the spot. Target has a mix. High visibility LP in black dress uniforms with patches and utility belts to deter potential shoplifters and undercover associates to follow around the more determined without spooking them so they can be apprehended. Again with handcuffs. Sears is undercover and has about the same policy as Macy's but they don't use handcuffs, or rather they're discouraged. But they're not as 'soft' as Best Buy for example so they're sort of in between. The specifics of how they do apprehensions varies. For example, it's pretty typical that you can use equal force to physically detain a shoplifter if they resist or endanger others but if it escalates to something like a shoplifter drawing a knife than they want you to disengage and let them go. It honestly depends on policy, but even so these situations can get really intense so sometimes LP bend the rules.
I always see loss prevention dudes when I'm with my friends and blow their cover legit dudes pretending to buy cheese at the grocery store for 30 minutes need to relax
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838090]I work in Loss Prevention/Asset Protection so if you have any questions just throw them out there.[/QUOTE] Five or six years ago I was walking out of Kohl's and the alarm went off, which I always assumed were absolutely fault-tolerant and were always an indication that you tried to steal (or the cashier simply forgot to ring up an item and put it in the bag). I walked out with absolutely nothing on me. Not a single bag, not a single item, absolutely zero items. The alarm went off, and I was like "what the fuck, I know I don't have anything on me, I'm not a shoplifter." Some guys pulled me off to the side and began to question me about things that I may have grabbed and "forgot" to pay for. I told them that I would never do something like that and offered to let them pat me down. They told me it wouldn't be necessary, but asked me to check all my pockets, the hood on my jacket, and the rolls on my pant legs (since I had to roll them up a bit because they were too long). I checked them all inside and out, and said "I don't have anything on me." I just kept saying "No, I didn't take anything" and after about five minutes they let me go. Thinking about it now, I probably could have legitimately taken something and they would have still let me go. Is stuff like that a common occurrence in your line of work? Have you ever experienced something like that with someone? What is the general protocol when dealing with a situation like what happened to me?
[QUOTE=haloguy234;44838377]Five or six years ago I was walking out of Kohl's and the alarm went off, which I always assumed were absolutely fault-tolerant and were always an indication that you tried to steal (or the cashier simply forgot to ring up an item and put it in the bag). I walked out with absolutely nothing on me. Not a single bag, not a single item, absolutely zero items. The alarm went off, and I was like "what the fuck, I know I don't have anything on me, I'm not a shoplifter." Some guys pulled me off to the side and began to question me about things that I may have grabbed and "forgot" to pay for. I told them that I would never do something like that and offered to let them pat me down. They told me it wouldn't be necessary, but asked me to check all my pockets, the hood on my jacket, and the rolls on my pant legs (since I had to roll them up a bit because they were too long). I checked them all inside and out, and said "I don't have anything on me." I just kept saying "No, I didn't take anything" and after about five minutes they let me go. Thinking about it now, I probably could have legitimately taken something and they would have still let me go. Is stuff like that a common occurrence in your line of work? Have you ever experienced something like that with someone? What is the general protocol when dealing with a situation like what happened to me?[/QUOTE] What you experienced is called a 'bad stop' and whoever involved must have been new or something. Depending on what they said at least. As long as they didn't straight out accuse you of stealing they may have genuinely been trying to help you. Sometimes people DO forgot they had stuff on them, more likely than not they are just lying though. Either way if they get the product back it's called a 'Recovery' and that's a good thing. The EAS system is not used to catch shoplifters. It's a deterrence. If a shoplifter has walked through the EAS without anyone noticing them than it's already too late for an apprehension. That being said almost all EAS alarms are false alarms anyway, so any LP that makes stops based off the EAS alone is bad at their job. When the EAS goes off it's pretty typical for an LP to come over anyway (if the customer has stopped or re-entered the store. If they keep walking, than they're free to go) and see why it went off. Usually it's something like the cashier forgetting to remove a tag. In which case the LP offers to remove it. It's good customer service after all since it sucks to get home and find out your new pair of pants are unwearable because it has a giant EAS tag pinned to it. Sometimes if you're lucky the EAS went off because someone WAS trying to shoplift and when you approach and go "We can deactivate whatever rang for you, sorry about that." they either get scared and give up what they stole or they play ignorant and give back what they took and act like they had forgotten they had it. But even so if they did steal and the EAS goes off and they're dumb enough to stick around but smart enough keep a poker face than yeah, an LP would let them go eventually since we can't pat people down for EAS activation. Even the people who are shoplifters who give up their stolen merchandise are allowed to leave, since we don't have any significant proof to prosecute them with anyway. The EAS systems are touchy. Sometimes they go off for no reason. If you walk through them with an EAS tag in the exact right way they won't activate. If you bring metal into the EAS field than the field will increase in size and detect things that are typically out of it's usual range and set it off. Sometimes certain cellphones, car remotes, credit cards and one time I even saw a conceal-carry gun set it off. In order to do an apprehension or a proper stop you need to have the Five Steps of Apprehension and every retail LP uses some form of this rule. 1. Observe them enter the department (Step 1 is the only step that can be disregarded in certain circumstances) 2. Observe them select the merchandise 3. Observe them conceal the product 4. Maintain constant visual of the subject. If you lose visual contact with them for even a second or they walk behind a waist high wall for example you need to start all over or let them go. 5. Once they pass all points of sale and you're 100% they didn't ditch the product you can execute a stop. As for how common a 'bad stop' is they're relatively uncommon and depending on who you work for one 'bad stop' can be termination.
What does it take to be Loss Prevention? Just apply for the position or do you have to have experience? Sounds like something I'd be interested in.
I love the one where the woman walks out at 9:19 and three police cars come out of nowhere and arrest her.
[QUOTE=NoobieWafer223;44838452]What does it take to be Loss Prevention? Just apply for the position or do you have to have experience? Sounds like something I'd be interested in.[/QUOTE] A young 18 year old girl I knew got Loss Prevention at a Toys R Us with no prior experience. So I'd say that answers your question
[QUOTE=NoobieWafer223;44838452]What does it take to be Loss Prevention? Just apply for the position or do you have to have experience? Sounds like something I'd be interested in.[/QUOTE] Every retailers is different. Most places looking for LP want experience and just someone with good character and integrity. Best Buy and Toys R Us for example hires without experience. So that's a great place to start, it's what I did. That being said Best Buy AP are literally door greeters and it will get your feet wet but you won't be doing anything even close to what you saw in those Target videos. But it's good experience, you'll see things and learn how shoplifters act and operate and how to spot and deal with them. Getting a Guard Card is another step in the right direction too. Security Guard licenses are easy to get. For example in New York all you have to do is take an 8-hour course and than pay to get your finger prints taken and than you send your certificate from the 8-hour course and proof of finger printing to the State with a fee and they send you back your Guard Card. Some LP require you to be licensed guards. Some don't. Best Buy doesn't require it. They'll usually tell you if you need one during the application process. Some will pay for you to take the course if they do. If you want to be an LP than you should literally just apply to every single LP position in your area and wait for at least one or two of them to call you back.
Watching people all day looks like a fun job.
Do you actually have to confront these people? Or do you give the signal for others to confront them?
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838424]What you experienced is called a 'bad stop' and whoever involved must have been new or something. Depending on what they said at least. As long as they didn't straight out accuse you of stealing they may have genuinely been trying to help you.[/QUOTE] Yeah, they never accused me of straight up stealing. They just asked me if I might have put something small in my pocket that I forgot to put back. I mean, sure that's pretty much an accusation of stealing, but nobody asked "Did you try to steal anything". That was when they asked me to check all my pockets. They asked if I had anything metal anywhere in my body or on my person, to which I said no. In hindsight I did have a ton of gift cards, a credit card, and my debit card in my wallet at the time, so maybe that's what set it off? [QUOTE]The EAS system is not used to catch shoplifters. It's a deterrence. If a shoplifter has walked through the EAS without anyone noticing them than it's already too late for an apprehension. That being said almost all EAS alarms are false alarms anyway, so any LP that makes stops based off the EAS alone is bad at their job.[/QUOTE] That's pretty strange. In a lot of circumstances I see people getting taken away from the floor after they pass through the doors and the alarm sounds. If not taken away, at least pulled to the side and questioned. [QUOTE]When the EAS goes off it's pretty typical for an LP to come over anyway (if the customer has stopped or re-entered the store. If they keep walking, than they're free to go)[/QUOTE] I think this is strange too. What about that guy who tried to walk out of the store with that TV in his cart? He didn't stop at the EAS. It went off and he continued walking (and you just said that if they don't stop, and the EAS goes off, they're free to go) and yet he was still apprehended. I think you got your wording messed up when trying to explain that one.
[QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44838515]Watching people all day looks like a fun job.[/QUOTE] Not really. Sometimes you see something funny, but in general it gets boring after a month or two. If you get unlucky like me at Best Buy and are forced to stand for 8-hours and watch a monitor on the sales floor where any asshole customer can come up and make your life miserable than it's hell sometimes. Especially when it's busy or you're following someone on the camera. At my new job it's a little better. They still do that 'AP stand by the front door with a monitor to watch the cameras' thing but at least we're allowed to walk away to follow people, help customers and use the bathroom or hide in our office for a few minutes. At Best Buy the AP are forced to stand at the door and are not allowed to leave without having someone else take their place. Sometimes that means waiting over an hour to use the bathroom while you wait for someone from inventory to come stand in your place.
Remember kids, unless they are sworn officers of the law, it is literally illegal for somone to bring you into custody against your will. If you are caught and the LPs/staff manage to take you by force, involve the police and make kidnapping and assault claims against them. This includes security by the way, their badges and utility belts mean jack shit in court. And the store will likely have cameras that will prove your case. Of course you'll still have to face shoplifting charges, but they have to face paying you a settlement.
The guy on the 2nd video at 2:16 just leaped the shopping carts. Kinda crazy people actually try and walk out with carts full of stuff.
[QUOTE=haloguy234;44838537]Yeah, they never accused me of straight up stealing. They just asked me if I might have put something small in my pocket that I forgot to put back. I mean, sure that's pretty much an accusation of stealing, but nobody asked "Did you try to steal anything". That was when they asked me to check all my pockets. They asked if I had anything metal anywhere in my body or on my person, to which I said no. In hindsight I did have a ton of gift cards, a credit card, and my debit card in my wallet at the time, so maybe that's what set it off? [/quote] Well, when he asked if you had anything metal on you that could have been another reason the EAS went off. Metal makes the EAS field bigger, I don't claim to know the science behind it but it makes the EAS pick up things that it typically would not. Enough magnetic material will do it too like the magnetic strips on credit cards, or sometimes the credit cards themselves will straight up set it off too. It could have been ANYTHING honestly. Those seem like pretty standard questions. I used to do that too, but I never meant to accuse anyone. I wanted to deactivate whatever rang for them so I'd go "Did you buy a new coat? New purse? Sometimes they don't take the stickers off of new wallets. Could it be that? Anything else you think may set it off?" Because whatever rang the EAS will ring the EAS in every store in the US since they all use the same equipment. [QUOTE=haloguy234;44838537] That's pretty strange. In a lot of circumstances I see people getting taken away from the floor after they pass through the doors and the alarm sounds. If not taken away, at least pulled to the side and questioned.[/QUOTE] The entire apprehension process takes place without customers knowing, a lot of it is done via CCTV or undercover LP for example. So to a typical customer it would appear as if the suspect sets off the EAS and than gets spirited away but in reality the LP had probably been following them or watching them on the camera this entire time. They can't apprehend them until they try to leave the store and pass all points of sale which establishes their intent to steal without any doubt since they made no effort to pay for it. The EAS is not even a factor in an apprehension not to mention like 80% of product is not security tagged. [QUOTE=haloguy234;44838537] I think this is strange too. What about that guy who tried to walk out of the store with that TV in his cart? He didn't stop at the EAS. It went off and he continued walking (and you just said that if they don't stop, and the EAS goes off, they're free to go) and yet he was still apprehended. I think you got your wording messed up when trying to explain that one.[/QUOTE] You saw earlier how in the video they were recording them? That's all done in real time. So someone was in the camera room watching as he selected the TV, put it in his cart and attempted to leave. When it became apparent he wasn't going to pay than they all went running out to stop him. What I meant regarding the EAS activation was if let's say you bought a pair of pants and the cashier forgot to take the tag off and the door rang and you continued to walk out into the parking lot. Than you're free to go since we have no proof you stole anything outside of the EAS activation which as I said are usually false alarms. If someone did chase you into the parking lot and discovered that the EAS went off because of that innocent mistake than he'd lose his job for a 'bad stop' which is why LP are not allowed to make stops based solely off EAS activation and those who set them off are allowed to walk free.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838590]They can't apprehend them until they try to leave the store and pass all points of sale which establishes their intent to steal without any doubt since they made no effort to pay for it. The EAS is not even a factor in an apprehension not to mention like 80% of product is not security tagged.[/QUOTE] That explains the one where the guy opens the box and stuffs the item in his pocket. I was wondering why AP didn't confront him since it was already clear that he opened and pocketed it.
[QUOTE=3picFail;44838562]Remember kids, unless they are sworn officers of the law, it is literally illegal for somone to bring you into custody against your will. If you are caught and the LPs/staff manage to take you by force, involve the police and make kidnapping and assault claims against them. This includes security by the way, their badges and utility belts mean jack shit in court. And the store will likely have cameras that will prove your case. Of course you'll still have to face shoplifting charges, but they have to face paying you a settlement.[/QUOTE] Absolutely incorrect. Merchant Clause provides retailers the means to use reasonable force to apprehend shoplifters. If what you said was a reality than I and everyone else in the LP industry would be in jail or suffering serious legal repercussions which is obviously not the case. Security Guards are considered Peace Officers. Disobeying a Security Guard is legally the same as disobeying a Police Officer. Security Guards are by law (at least in my State) allowed to perform arrests. But to be fair ANY US citizen can perform a citizens arrest if they personally witness a felony. [editline]18th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=KillerJaguar;44838617]That explains the one where the guy opens the box and stuffs the item in his pocket. I was wondering why AP didn't confront him since it was already clear that he opened and pocketed it.[/QUOTE] Exactly. For example, at Best Buy I watched some asshole take a laptop and put it under his coat. We couldn't do [i]jack shit[/i] until he attempted to leave the building. Because as stupid as it sounds he [i]could[/i] have intended to pay for it.
[QUOTE=CodeMonkey3;44838127]Yeah, basically. You just watch cameras or walk the floor and stalk people who are acting shifty. At my new job I'm literally the Retail NSA and spend half the week spying on my co-workers. There are audits, checklists and other paperwork involved. Responding to medical emergencies and stuff like that. To clarify I was AP at Best Buy and I'm LP at Burlington Coat Factory now. I worked at Target for awhile, but I wasn't AP but I did get to see them operate on occasion.[/QUOTE] So, if a person were to wear something formal, like a suit for example, he'd theoretically be able to walk into a store, grab a TV and walk out without anyone noticing? Surely, no one would be watching him via the cameras as he'd be the least 'shifty' looking person. All he would have to do is act normal. And for extra assurance, he could bring an extra friend along who'd be wearing something highly suspicious like a tracksuit and a hat, and would just walk around a relatively expensive store for several minutes acting as a distraction in the meantime. I'm curious because when I was a kid, I walked into a supermarket and decided to shoplift a whole bunch of chocolate bars. I even pretended to buy something inexpensive so as to not arouse suspicion. I payed the cashier and was on my way with pockets full of free chocolate feeling like a criminal mastermind when I noticed the manager and two police officers who were waiting for me at the exit. I was dumbfounded as to how in such a busy and absolutely massive supermarket, they were able to single me out via the cameras and then spot me stuffing my pockets.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44838580]Over here we just have greeters that ask to see bags, and you don't have to let them. I'm talking buff dudes in suits that just go "Can I see whats in your bag" and you can just wave them off and nothing happens.[/QUOTE] At Best Buy it was AP's responsibilities to do Bag/Receipt checks. If a customer refused than we could not force them, they were free to go. That being said. Do you know how many people refused to show me a receipt or check their bag? [i]None.[/i] Plenty of them were complete assholes about it but no one ever refused.
[QUOTE=Melnek;44838645]So, if a person were to wear something formal, like a suit for example, he'd theoretically be able to walk into a store, grab a TV and walk out without anyone noticing? Surely, no one would be watching him via the cameras as he'd be the least 'shifty' looking person. All he would have to do is act normal. And for extra assurance, he could bring an extra friend along who'd be wearing something highly suspicious like a tracksuit and a hat, and would just walk around a relatively expensive store for several minutes acting as a distraction in the meantime. I'm curious because when I was a kid, I walked into a supermarket and decided to shoplift a whole bunch of chocolate bars. I even pretended to buy something inexpensive so as to not arouse suspicion. I payed the cashier and was on my way with pockets full of free chocolate feeling like a criminal mastermind when I noticed the manager and two police officers who were waiting for me at the exit. I was dumbfounded as to how in such a busy and absolutely massive supermarket, they were able to single me out via the cameras and then spot me stuffing my pockets.[/QUOTE] We don't profile. It's a handicap to profile people based on how they look or what they're wearing. We try to pick up on suspicious behaviors, tactics and manners. What you described has happened to me on multiple occasions. The more 'professional' teams work in pairs. One steals, the other distracts. So you'd have someone come up to you and cause a scene about some dumb shit or ask really stupid question while at the same time their accomplice is stealing while you're distracted with them. Or they go throughout the store cranking up the boombox's and rattling alarm cases so they go off. Infact a couple weeks ago I witnessed an 80 year old man casually walk around pushing fire doors and peaking into our warehouse. He was causing a distraction for his two other accomplices whom were snatching shit while we were trying to turn off the door alarms. Again, that tactic you used as a kid is an old one. Guilty Gatorade I've heard people call the tactic, I think it's a dumb name. You steal shit and than buy something cheap to make you seem like you're not suspicious.
Target Police lmao. Why are there 3+ police cars seemingly on standby to tackle Target shoplifters? These people sprinting from all around look ridiculous, like there's just tons of people sittign around all day waiting for their call. This would be excessive force here any day of the week. Second video also is great example of the spying/invasion of privacy that is.
[QUOTE=LuaChobo;44838655]Yeah I can understand that, you get two types that don't know their rights (people that just accept everything and people like 3pic up there) [/QUOTE] I had people on a few occasions refuse. I'd say "Hello, May I see your receipt?" And they'd get a sour face and say "No." and I'd go "Alright, Sir. Have a great day." and than I guess they'd ALWAYS feel sorry for me or something and show me anyway. I think they expected to get into a confrontation like I was accusing them of something but when they saw me immediately back down they must have felt bad for snapping at me. I dunno how peoples minds work honestly. But they'd refuse and than always end up showing me anyway. Old people for example [i]fucking hated me[/i].
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;44838669]Target Police lmao. Why are there 3+ police cars seemingly on standby to tackle Target shoplifters? These people sprinting from all around look ridiculous, like there's just tons of people sittign around all day waiting for their call. This would be excessive force here any day of the week. Second video also is great example of the spying/invasion of privacy that is.[/QUOTE] Organized Retail Crime. The person they're arrested was probably a REALLY serious individual. Some people are really fucking good at stealing. At Best Buy there was a woman who stole over $10,000 of merchandise in a month or two. You can go to jail for a long, long time for shit like that. So the Target AP probably saw this guy come in and said "It's that guy that has been hitting us over and over" or "That's the guy the Police told us about" and immediately phoned ahead and the Police came to pick him up when he did it again and book him. Most people don't realize it but shoplifting isn't a minor offense anymore. It's a felony to even tamper with Spider-Wraps or other security devices and you can go to jail for so much as peeling the EAS stickers off product. [editline]18th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=LuaChobo;44838683]old people hate everyone[/QUOTE] [i]"Do I look like a thieve? I'm not a thief! I'm 67 years old!"[/i] Every. Single. Time.
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