A Russian woman experiences gender in the Nordic countries - General

[hd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMdfQ2MXHB0&list=WL&index=17[/hd] from The Norden.

Where the hell did they find that danish dude, a bog?

Yes, things are Different in the Nordic countries, its called Progress and ENlightenment thinking being carried to its logical conclusion - emancipation of all boundaries that impede egalitarianism from being realized. Russia is currently a reactionary state that fails to live up to its progressive past....

[QUOTE=i_SINK_3s_94';47627249]Yes, things are Different in the Nordic countries, its called Progress and ENlightenment thinking being carried to its logical conclusion - emancipation of all boundaries that impede egalitarianism from being realized. Russia is currently a reactionary state that fails to live up to its progressive past....[/QUOTE] I almost want to tip my fedora to you if i had one.

[QUOTE=i_SINK_3s_94';47627249]Yes, things are Different in the Nordic countries, its called Progress and ENlightenment thinking being carried to its logical conclusion - emancipation of all boundaries that impede egalitarianism from being realized. Russia is currently a reactionary state that fails to live up to its progressive past....[/QUOTE] Damn how Euphoric do I need to be to understand a post like that?

[QUOTE=i_SINK_3s_94';47627249]Yes, things are Different in the Nordic countries, its called Progress and ENlightenment thinking being carried to its logical conclusion - emancipation of all boundaries that impede egalitarianism from being realized. Russia is currently a reactionary state that fails to live up to its progressive past....[/QUOTE] What progressive past? Russia has almost always been a relatively socially conservative country. Also it's rather arrogant to call it "progress and enlightenment", considering that not all countries should be obliged to go that way.

[QUOTE=Deng;47627878]What progressive past? Russia has almost always been a relatively socially conservative country.[/QUOTE] Well, at least in the immediate post-revolutionary time within Lenin's reign, there was a push for feminist-like women's equality in the society. It mostly died with Lenin, though.

[QUOTE=gufu;47627909]Well, at least in the immediate post-revolutionary time within Lenin's reign, there was a push for feminist-like women's equality in the society. It mostly died with Lenin, though.[/QUOTE] The only trouble is that it was done not for the purposes of really improving peoples lives, but to stimulate the revolution and help cast away pretty much every aspect of old society. They did introduce policies we might recognize as progressive today, but they were all aimed at the complete destruction of the old society and the remoulding of people into ideal citizens. One of the biggest results (after encouraging divorce, the dismantling of the family unit, etc) was millions of orphans left to roam the country, many of them involved in crime and prostitution. When the USSR formed and began to reel in the worst excesses of the revolutionary era, it readopted many of the old social norms.

-It's almost always the mother who stays at home. -But they decided in their own family right? It's a discussion between husband and wife? The government doesn't mix in this situation, right? -No, but I think the only way to get a solution to this is actually laws. SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE SOCIALST

What she and other feminists forget is that many mothers actually [I]want[/I] to stay home with their children. Then there's the question of income. Every family situation is different and it's better to let each family decide what suits them best and what they want. The government doesn't need to and shouldn't meddle with this any more than what they already do (there's a set month or so both parents has to stay home with their child).

[QUOTE=MoonlessNight;47628027]-It's almost always the mother who stays at home. -But they decided in their own family right? It's a discussion between husband and wife? The government doesn't mix in this situation, right? -No, but I think the only way to get a solution to this is actually laws. SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE SOCIALST[/QUOTE] Making a law about how the m/paternity leave should be split isn't a totally bad idea. Making sure both the mom and the dad spend time with their kid is a good thing. Personally I think most of these gender issues should be solved by slowly changing the cultural norms instead of writing new laws, but very general "soft" laws wouldn't be bad in helping that situation.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;47628110]Making a law about how the m/paternity leave should be split isn't a totally bad idea. Making sure both the mom and the dad spend time with their kid is a good thing. Personally I think most of these gender issues should be solved by slowly changing the cultural norms instead of writing new laws, but very general "soft" laws wouldn't be bad in helping that situation.[/QUOTE] What is a "soft law" in this context? Regardless, you think state influence should be used to force ideology on adult people that may prefer to decide for themselves.

Using a person from a highly traditional country to bring across a point, including MRA-level opinions (Masculinist? Really?), and showing a bunch of old people not caring about new stuff and grumbling about one things?

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;47628110]Making a law about how the m/paternity leave should be split isn't a totally bad idea. Making sure both the mom and the dad spend time with their kid is a good thing. Personally I think most of these gender issues should be solved by slowly changing the cultural norms instead of writing new laws, but very general "soft" laws wouldn't be bad in helping that situation.[/QUOTE] How about letting people decide themselves instead of forcing everything through a nanny state?

That kindergarten seems pretty damn weird. She made a pretty good point in the end though, when you're living in a society without problems you're going to try and find things to have a problem with.

[QUOTE=MoonlessNight;47628140]What is a "soft law" in this context? Regardless, you think state influence should be used to force ideology on adult people that may prefer to decide for themselves.[/QUOTE] A "soft law" would be something like a minimum split, just making sure that both parents are spending [I]some[/I] time with their baby. I wouldn't support a law requiring a 50/50 split at all.

Jesus christ what happened to the post below mine :v:

The woman is so close minded holy shit.

[QUOTE=MoonlessNight;47628027]-It's almost always the mother who stays at home. -But they decided in their own family right? It's a discussion between husband and wife? The government doesn't mix in this situation, right? -No, but I think the only way to get a solution to this is actually laws. SPOKEN LIKE A TRUE SOCIALST[/QUOTE] While I don't really agree with the idea to set up laws regarding it, I still think it's extremely important to work against the current norm when it comes to things like this. Women in STEM educations and careers are still very rare. Men who likes/do ""girly"" things still get ridiculed. Why? Because there are still, after all these years, social stigmas and unwritten rules out there. If you have a dick you should preferably behave in X way and like A. If you have a vagina you should preferably behave in Y way and like B. "Toys for boys" = Generally technical and action-oriented thingies. "Toys for girls" = Generally caregiving-related and calm thingies. The same goes for children's television, it's brainwashing, more or less. According to certain ~~biotruthers~~, this is because men have somehow "evolved" to become extremely fascinated by cogwheels, electrical circuits and logic, while women are still just dumb animals whose only purpose is to give birth to and take care of children, but they do know how to operate sewing and washing machines, which is very important to remember. (??????????????????????) It's some dumb more or less roleplay bullshit that's followed us since forever, and has absolutely zero relevance in today's society. It's freedom limiting for everyone and as I've already said, stupid as fuck. It simply needs to end, instead of grouping people together by gender/race/whatever, begin seeing them as individuals. And unless they're like sex toys or medicines or something, why should there be gender/sex specific products at all?

Well, I do like big hard cogs.

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;47634695] According to certain ~~biotruthers~~, this is because men have somehow "evolved" to become extremely fascinated by cogwheels, electrical circuits and logic, while women are still just dumb animals whose only purpose is to give birth to and take care of children, but they do know how to operate sewing and washing machines, which is very important to remember. (??????????????????????) [/QUOTE] Would you take a look at this beautiful strawman in the wild. Fascinating. I wouldn't make an effort to spit in the general direction of people who stand for that sort of "traditional" concept of gender roles, and even I wouldn't misrepresent their arguments in such a way, it's pathetic.

[QUOTE=gudman;47634987]Would you take a look at this beautiful strawman in the wild. Fascinating. I wouldn't make an effort to spit in the general direction of people who stand for that sort of "traditional" concept of gender roles, and even I wouldn't misrepresent their arguments in such a way, it's pathetic.[/QUOTE] No, as in, I've seen people literally say shit like that

[QUOTE=gudman;47634987]Would you take a look at this beautiful strawman in the wild. Fascinating. I wouldn't make an effort to spit in the general direction of people who stand for that sort of "traditional" concept of gender roles, and even I wouldn't misrepresent their arguments in such a way, it's pathetic.[/QUOTE] It's not a strawman though, it's things that some people actually say and believe

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;47635227]No, as in, I've seen people literally say shit like that[/QUOTE] Where, exactly? I'd actually like to see who and where has been saying that. [quote]It simply needs to end, instead of grouping people together by gender/race/whatever, begin seeing them as individuals.[/quote] In what capacity or area?

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;47635227]No, as in, I've seen people literally say shit like that[/QUOTE] Can I have a link or anything? I would like to take a look and laugh a bit. Because I've kinda seen what you described, but it wasn't anywhere that shit. Sure, it meant pretty much the same, but those were better constructed arguments based on human sexual dimorphism and described a timescale from stone age. It [b]was[/b] pretty stupid, - because well, those are arguments brought to support an ideological point, not for scientific purposes, - but it wasn't anywhere hear "human males evolved fascination with cogwheels and circuits".

The instant someone starts prattling on about "Biotruthers" is the instant they discredit themselves in my eyes. Rather than addressing actual points you create a strawman of everyone who doesn't believe gender is a purely cultural construct. Also "why should there be gender/sex specific products at all?", they're called demographics. You market your product to the people most likely to buy it. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with buying girls toys for boys or buying boys toys for girls.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;47637460]The instant someone starts prattling on about "Biotruthers" is the instant they discredit themselves in my eyes. Rather than addressing actual points you create a strawman of everyone who doesn't believe gender is a purely cultural construct. Also "why should there be gender/sex specific products at all?", they're called demographics. You market your product to the people most likely to buy it. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with buying girls toys for boys or buying boys toys for girls.[/QUOTE] Does anyone have that video about gender-specific products, the one presented by two women ? It's a pretty good presentation, but the long story cut short is that associating a product with a gender and even duplicating a product just to sell it to a specific gender is a necessary move to actually sell that product effectively.

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;47634695]While I don't really agree with the idea to set up laws regarding it, I still think it's extremely important to work against the current norm when it comes to things like this. Women in STEM educations and careers are still very rare. Men who likes/do ""girly"" things still get ridiculed. Why? Because there are still, after all these years, social stigmas and unwritten rules out there. If you have a dick you should preferably behave in X way and like A. If you have a vagina you should preferably behave in Y way and like B. "Toys for boys" = Generally technical and action-oriented thingies. "Toys for girls" = Generally caregiving-related and calm thingies. The same goes for children's television, it's brainwashing, more or less. According to certain ~~biotruthers~~, this is because men have somehow "evolved" to become extremely fascinated by cogwheels, electrical circuits and logic, while women are still just dumb animals whose only purpose is to give birth to and take care of children, but they do know how to operate sewing and washing machines, which is very important to remember. (??????????????????????) It's some dumb more or less roleplay bullshit that's followed us since forever, and has absolutely zero relevance in today's society. It's freedom limiting for everyone and as I've already said, stupid as fuck. It simply needs to end, instead of grouping people together by gender/race/whatever, begin seeing them as individuals. And unless they're like sex toys or medicines or something, why should there be gender/sex specific products at all?[/QUOTE] My opinion depends on what "work against the current norm" constitutes. I don't think state influence or resources should be used [B]at all[/B] to try force change based on completely ideological conceptions on what society should look like. You fixate on STEM fields when the fields of medicine, law and economy are close to a 50/50 distribution of gender in our society. But I guess professionals in these highly respected fields are just "dumb animals".

[QUOTE=Rixxz2;47634695]While I don't really agree with the idea to set up laws regarding it, I still think it's extremely important to work against the current norm when it comes to things like this. Women in STEM educations and careers are still very rare. Men who likes/do ""girly"" things still get ridiculed. Why? Because there are still, after all these years, social stigmas and unwritten rules out there. If you have a dick you should preferably behave in X way and like A. If you have a vagina you should preferably behave in Y way and like B. "Toys for boys" = Generally technical and action-oriented thingies. "Toys for girls" = Generally caregiving-related and calm thingies. The same goes for children's television, it's brainwashing, more or less. According to certain ~~biotruthers~~, this is because men have somehow "evolved" to become extremely fascinated by cogwheels, electrical circuits and logic, while women are still just dumb animals whose only purpose is to give birth to and take care of children, but they do know how to operate sewing and washing machines, which is very important to remember. (??????????????????????) It's some dumb more or less roleplay bullshit that's followed us since forever, and has absolutely zero relevance in today's society. It's freedom limiting for everyone and as I've already said, stupid as fuck. It simply needs to end, instead of grouping people together by gender/race/whatever, begin seeing them as individuals. And unless they're like sex toys or medicines or something, why should there be gender/sex specific products at all?[/QUOTE] The thing is, there are differences on what each gender chooses. Most people will agree no one should be mocked with what they choose and you are making a lot of assumptions most reasonable people don't have. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70[/media] There are things geared to genders because that works really well in terms of sales, it doesn't matter if a few boys like to play with "toys for girls", the truth is that most boys won't generally like "caregiving-related" things. And that's ok, forcing them to like that type of thing is just as bad as mocking those who currently do.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;47637460] Also "why should there be gender/sex specific products at all?", they're called demographics. You market your product to the people most likely to buy it.[/QUOTE] Of course, but I'm talking about the cause of that. [quote=MoonlessNight] You fixate on STEM fields when the fields of medicine, law and economy are close to a 50/50 distribution of gender in our society. But I guess professionals in these highly respected fields are just "dumb animals". [/quote] I never meant to say that you think that way, my rant about the "biotruthers" was more of an example of how some people actually think. [quote=bunguer] the truth is that most boys won't generally like "caregiving-related" things. And that's ok, forcing them to like that type of thing is just as bad as mocking those who currently do. [/quote] I never said a word about forcing anyone to do/like anything, my point is the exact opposite of that [editline]1st May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Deng;47636078]Where, exactly? I'd actually like to see who and where has been saying that. [/QUOTE] [quote=gudman] Can I have a link or anything? I would like to take a look and laugh a bit. [/quote] These aren't things I've read online somewhere, I've heard them first-hand, so no, sorry My point is that we shouldn't have a society in which people are afraid/uncomfortable to do/openly like certain things, because they're "not for them" because they're of the "wrong" gender